00:28 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) had a staff of holiness bestowed upon her by Thoth, on T:98007 (1 day, 2:14:13)
00:52 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) became Thoth's Envoy of Balance, on T:99310 (1 day, 2:37:59)
03:40 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) killed the Goblin King, on T:947 (0:39:27)
03:49 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 4508 points, T:2447, killed by a bolt of cold
04:17 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 1516 points, T:1241, killed by a gray unicorn
04:43 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack
05:36 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu), 171 points, T:1049, killed by a boiling potion
06:06 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed]
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06:33 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:3474 (0:57:25)
06:38 -!- aosdict has joined #evilhack
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07:11 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu), 2689 points, T:7204, killed by a dwarf king
07:15 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Tormuse (Cav Gia Mal Law) performed his first genocide (two random monsters from class R), on T:70426 (2 days, 23:06:47)
07:15 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Tormuse (Cav Gia Mal Law) genocided two random monsters from class h, on T:70427 (2 days, 23:06:55)
07:34 -!- arahael has joined #evilhack
08:15 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu), 506 points, T:1338, killed by a gnome lord
08:15 -!- xdminsy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
08:24 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed]
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08:33 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu), 13490 points, T:12804, killed by an Angel of Athena
09:09 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:2761 (0:29:50)
09:19 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu), 3813 points, T:3789, killed by a piranha
09:29 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu), 130 points, T:971, killed by a water moccasin
09:55 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu) averted death (zombified by a gnome zombie), on T:1984 (0:25:32)
09:56 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] nabru (Val Cen Fem Neu) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Odin, on T:445 (0:02:58)
09:57 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:2237 (0:28:22)
10:00 <krm26> hahaha
10:00 <krm26> found magicbane! gollum stole it.
10:01 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu) killed Gollum, on T:2435 (0:31:24)
10:01 <krm26> almost ended me
10:03 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] nabru (Val Cen Fem Neu) had an iron small shield entrusted to her by Odin, on T:1294 (0:09:38)
10:03 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] nabru (Val Cen Fem Neu), 1308 points, T:1482, quit
10:28 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:3897 (0:37:10)
10:54 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu), 1559 points, T:4483, killed by the Goblin King, while sleeping
11:01 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 2443 points, T:2690, diseased by a hobbit zombie, while praying
11:16 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:6962 (1:25:49)
11:19 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu), 7172 points, T:6824, killed by a bolt of fire
11:23 <krm26> boo, lacca's infidel ghost ended my magicbane run
11:23 <K2> :(
11:23 <K2> gonna stream nethacathon here in about 1.5 hrs
11:23 <K2> *nethackathon
11:24 <krm26> you're streaming too?
11:24 <K2> yes in 1.5 hrs
11:24 <K2> schedule + links to each streamer here - https://nethackathon.org/
11:28 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:4138 (0:33:34)
11:29 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu) made her first wish - "blessed fixed greased +3 dragonhide t-shirt of esp", on T:160 (0:05:45)
11:30 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) killed Gollum, on T:4336 (0:35:45)
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11:34 <K2> after my nethackathon time, gonna start getting ready for evilhack release :P
11:34 <K2> terrapin do you have anything else in the pipeline?
11:37 <k3ut0i> I thought tame monsters could not ride?
11:38 <K2> they arent supposed to be able to
11:38 <K2> do you have a pet that is riding something?
11:38 <k3ut0i> I got a tame mordor orc riding a mmuk
11:38 <K2> lol
11:38 <k3ut0i> mumak
11:38 <K2> is the mumak hostile still?
11:38 <k3ut0i> don't know
11:38 <K2> probably
11:39 <K2> was the orc tame before it started riding the mumak?
11:39 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a werejackal, on T:7428 (1:35:48)
11:39 <Loggers_VIII> has splunge ever joined this channel?
11:40 <krm26> not that i've seen
11:40 <K2> dont think so
11:40 <Loggers_VIII> I wonder if they know about it
11:41 <k3ut0i> K2: No. It was riding before I played magic harp.
11:41 <K2> i see
11:41 <Loggers_VIII> does the mumak still hit you if you get near?
11:41 <K2> that makes sense
11:42 <k3ut0i> No, I think mumak also became tame. I doesn't have MR right? I should have also been tamed.
11:42 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) had a cloth helm of speed entrusted to him by Anhur, on T:7601 (1:38:54)
11:44 <Loggers_VIII> ah makes sense
11:46 <k3ut0i> Some thing is wrong
11:46 <K2> what?
11:46 <k3ut0i> Mumak is tame and mordor orc got off.
11:46 <K2> yeah, as it should
11:46 <k3ut0i> mumak still shows in far looks as: '(tail of a tame mumak, being ridden)'
11:47 <K2> tame monsters arent supposed to 1) be ridden or 2) ride monsters
11:47 <K2> oh no
11:47 <K2> dammit
11:47 <K2> do NOT interact with the mumak, or its tail
11:47 <K2> if you do, game will prob crash
11:48 <k3ut0i> Okay.
11:48 <K2> ok, will need to fix that before release
11:48 * K2 sighs
11:49 <k3ut0i> mordor orc also still shows as 'riding a mumak'.
11:49 <K2> yeah dont interact with it either
11:50 <K2> best to leave them on the level so they dont follow
11:50 <K2> !whereis k3ut0i
11:50 <Hecubus> K2: [hdf-eu] k3ut0i [evil]: (Tou Trt Fem Neu) T:4689 The Gnomish Mines level: 8
11:50 <K2> you got zootown didnt you
11:51 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) eschewed atheism, by dropping a smoky potion on an altar, on T:5337 (0:56:25)
11:51 <k3ut0i> Yes
11:51 <Loggers_VIII> ohh, the tails strike again
11:51 <K2> case we didnt account for apparently
11:51 <krm26> zootown is le suck
11:51 <krm26> why cant every town be orctown
11:51 <K2> i love zootown
11:52 <krm26> orcs all the way down, top to bottom
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11:53 <krm26> the minetowns without tool shops should be razed
11:54 <k3ut0i> I got an anaconda, tiger, jaguar as pets; a gnomish wizard is somehow surviving and dodging every one of them.
11:54 <krm26> wait for him to stun one of them so it accidentally kills you!
11:55 <k3ut0i> dammit, it stunned jaguar
11:55 <k3ut0i> I'm seeing 3 mumaks, each one being called tail of a mumak
11:55 <krm26> uh oh
11:56 <krm26> hope the dungeon doesnt collapse on you
11:56 <k3ut0i> Now the glyph changed to ~ instead of q
12:02 <K2> do not touch it
12:05 <terrapin> k3ut0i do you remember when/why the orc dismounted?
12:07 <Pinkbeast> K2: hang on, you've got a tiny, you must know saying that makes me really want to touch it
12:07 <k3ut0i> I think it was after I got the magic whistle. Every place I whistled, there is a new tail glyph that does nothing.
12:08 <K2> 'do not press this button'
12:08 <K2> lol damn k3ut0i
12:09 <terrapin> oof definitely the magic whistle
12:12 <k3ut0i> :( they are not following me to next level
12:12 <terrapin> yeah i noticed that too; strange
12:13 <K2> prob a good thing
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12:13 <k3ut0i> shit
12:13 <terrapin> K2, i assume the fix is to have the pets dismount? and not try to make riding pets work?
12:13 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu), 7507 points, T:6614, poisoned by a stone orcish arrow
12:13 <K2> easy fix yeah
12:14 <K2> so what's already supposed to be in place - if a monster is tame, it wont try to mount another monster
12:14 <K2> of if the tame monster is a steed type, it cant be mounted by another monster
12:14 <K2> it appears we didnt account for hostile rider/steed pair, one or both becoming tame
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12:15 <K2> or maybe we did but not every scenario
12:15 <K2> it sounds like both the rider and steed became tame at same time
12:16 <terrapin> i'm not immediately seeing any checks for monsters becoming tame that are already riding, just those making sure they can't start riding
12:17 <K2> yeah
12:23 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:9768 (2:19:40)
12:30 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] eggandhull (Sam Gia Mal Law), 939 points, T:1117, killed by a gnome lord, while sleeping
12:35 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu) had a gold shield of mobility entrusted to her by Hermes, on T:3130 (1:11:29)
12:35 <krm26> you know hermes, i woulda thanked you for that -- if it wasnt GOLD
12:36 <krm26> cant even lift the stupid thing you ass
12:37 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed +2 secespita", on T:10268 (2:33:41)
12:41 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) had a dagger entrusted to him by Anhur, on T:10449 (2:37:18)
12:44 <krm26> hehe i love how you can starve to death with a stack of 500 meatballs
12:47 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu) had Giantslayer bestowed upon her by Hermes, on T:3985 (1:23:37)
12:47 <krm26> hmm
12:47 <krm26> i wonder if giantslayer is better than an aklys
12:47 <krm26> probably not
12:48 <krm26> oh wut
12:48 <krm26> 25 str?
12:48 <terrapin> better base damage and 25 strength sounds pretty good to me
12:48 <krm26> when did that happen?!
12:49 <terrapin> at least four years ago
12:51 <botifico> [EvilHack] saltwaterterrapin opened pull request #139: Don't allow pet riders - https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/pull/139
12:52 <K2> thanks terrapin
12:52 <terrapin> good luck on your stream!
12:52 <K2> about to start my stream in a couple min, then get the hand off at 1
12:52 <K2> thanks o/
12:54 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:4435 (1:30:46)
12:56 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu) killed Gollum, on T:4704 (1:32:47)
13:04 <Pinkbeast> What's K2's nom du Twitch?
13:05 <Pinkbeast> Oh got it
13:08 <krm26> Jazzy DJ K2
13:15 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu) destroyed Splunge's ghost, the former Thaumaturge, on T:5827 (1:51:55)
13:18 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed]
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13:28 -!- k3ut0i has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
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13:35 <k3ut0i> What variant is being played on nethackathon?
13:36 <terrapin> 3.7
13:36 <terrapin> with minor easter eggs
13:36 <terrapin> in this case literally
13:40 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) killed Aphrodite, on T:14173 (3:34:05)
13:41 <k3ut0i> whoa, there are water walls in 3.7
13:41 <Umbire> Mhm
13:41 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) killed Gollum, on T:6157 (1:17:42)
13:43 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed]
13:43 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) killed the Goblin King, on T:6454 (1:19:36)
13:45 <krm26> poor splunge left me a minetown with 3 magic lamps
13:49 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 14471 points, T:7081, killed by a warg
13:56 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu) wished for "2 blessed potions of full healing", on T:7087 (2:32:57)
13:56 <krm26> hjfkljsdflkjdf
13:56 <Umbire> ...?
14:16 -!- terrapin has quit [Quit: Cheers!]
14:16 <krm26> got myself zombie-ill with no prayer, unihorn, or eucalyptus. so i had a blessed magic lamp and i had to burn it to survive
14:16 <krm26> so lame
14:28 -!- k3ut0i has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
14:30 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, acquiring a bag of holding, on T:18144 (4:23:55)
14:36 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack
14:48 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 2873 points, T:1856, killed by a dingo
14:49 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) destroyed the invisible Splunge's ghost, the former Cutpurse, on T:19102 (4:42:20)
14:59 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:9681 (3:36:21)
15:01 <mobileuser> well done K2!
15:02 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack
15:03 <mobileuser> krm26 I once wished for a unihorn in that same situation :-)
15:04 <K2> thanks
15:04 <K2> man that was some bad luck/dumb decisions early on
15:04 <K2> i cant talk and play at the same time
15:04 <mobileuser> that water maze was awful
15:04 <K2> yes
15:05 <Loggers_VIII> fun stream
15:05 <nabru> you did very well
15:05 <mobileuser> I feel influenced
15:05 <nabru> I can't talk and play at the same time etiehr
15:05 <nabru> *either
15:06 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Client Quit]
15:07 <Umbire> gg K2
15:07 <nabru> evilhackathon when
15:08 <krm26> heh
15:09 <K2> heh
15:09 <K2> thanks all
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15:11 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Client Quit]
15:11 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack
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15:12 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu) destroyed the invisible Splunge's ghost, the former Thaumaturge, on T:10791 (3:48:49)
15:12 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una) killed the Goblin King, on T:1364 (0:13:35)
15:15 <K2> that was quite the learning experience. first time streamer
15:17 <K2> i need food, brb
15:18 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed]
15:19 <krm26> k2 onlyfans coming up
15:20 <K2> omg
15:23 <krm26> hot variant devs in your area
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15:28 <krm26> wtf
15:28 <mobileuser> ?
15:28 <krm26> i had to waste a magic lamp because i suck and then the game gave me another magic lamp
15:28 <krm26> i dont understand
15:28 <mobileuser> RNG giveth...
15:40 <krm26> of course i ignored that my one shop has a giant shopkeeper and waltzed up to his face wielding giantslayer without a second thought
15:45 <botifico> [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 4 commits to master [+0/-0/±5] https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/compare/3ed6a5d9967c...de561e5bb666
15:45 <botifico> [EvilHack] saltwaterterrapin 1f9a8c3 - Fix: don't hilite globs of pudding after they merge
15:45 <botifico> [EvilHack] saltwaterterrapin 8368598 - Fix: Make tamed monsters stop riding
15:46 <botifico> [EvilHack] saltwaterterrapin 7095bbe - Fix: Check for visibility
15:46 <botifico> [EvilHack] k21971 de561e5 - Merge pull request #139 from saltwaterterrapin/master
15:51 <krm26> i dont understand
15:51 <krm26> i keep finding magic lamps
15:51 <krm26> i have 5 now
15:56 <Loggers_VIII> hey can you die on level 4 for me
15:59 <krm26> i'll do my best
16:00 <krm26> i'm also draging a couple of Splunge's pseudodragons around with me
16:14 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Hea Hum Fem Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:15554 (4:50:51)
16:18 <botifico> [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/compare/de561e5bb666...db935dfeae29
16:18 <botifico> [EvilHack] k21971 db935df - Update the changelog.
16:31 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) had a cloth jacket entrusted to him by Anhur, on T:23676 (6:22:59)
16:31 <Loggers_VIII> huh, never seen someone get gifted a jacket
16:43 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed]
16:54 -!- terrapin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:58 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) killed Gollum, on T:25101 (6:49:25)
17:02 -!- terrapin has joined #evilhack
17:13 <K2> terrapin did you have a thing for lit forges?
17:24 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 3531 points, T:2944, killed by an owlbear
17:28 -!- terracotta has joined #evilhack
17:28 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 57990 points, T:26583, suffocated by a gelatinous cube
17:29 -!- terracotta has quit [Client Quit]
17:29 <terrapin> K2 no, I was never able to figure out the special level ones
17:30 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed]
17:30 <K2> ok
17:32 <K2> i've been thinking about the sword of annihilation
17:32 <K2> and discussion from the other day
17:32 <K2> loggers needs to pop in now hah
17:32 * K2 slaps krm26 around a bit with a large trout
17:33 <terrapin> commit something
17:33 <terrapin> that will summon Loggers
17:33 <K2> heheh
17:33 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 1542 points, T:1058, diseased by a hobbit zombie
17:33 <K2> i think the recipe for the SoA needs to be changed
17:34 <K2> it's arguably the best/strongest weapon in the game, and it's fairly easy to acquire
17:34 <K2> so i had a thought
17:35 <K2> in stead of one recipe, make 2
17:35 <K2> *instead
17:35 <K2> something like - frost brand + excalibur will make the SoA. but so could fire brand + dirge
17:36 <K2> that leaves out neutral types
17:36 <K2> but could easily have a third recipe
17:37 <terrapin> i guess i'd worry that that doesn't make it much harder
17:37 <terrapin> indeed frost brand + excalibur is likely easier than frost + fire brand for lawfuls
17:38 <K2> true, but you're giving up excalibur
17:38 <K2> that's a top teir artifact weapon
17:38 <K2> *tier
17:38 <terrapin> good point
17:38 <K2> dirge is pretty damn good too for chaotics
17:39 <K2> i dont want to add a restriction like i mentioned earlier (suppress dual wielding when one of them is a forged artifact)
17:39 <K2> vorpal blade could be it for neutrals
17:40 <K2> but then no ithilmar
17:41 <K2> but I think that's ok
17:42 <terrapin> so to my understanding you're saying that 1) you want SoA's ingredients to be more valuable, 2) some ingredients need to be aligned because aligned artifacts are the top-tier ones, mostly, but then 3) you need multiple recipes so SoA is achievable by all alignments
17:42 <K2> yes
17:43 <terrapin> it's not the solution i'd choose but i think it's reasonable
17:43 <K2> what would you do for a solution?
17:43 <terrapin> probably change SoA to make it worse
17:44 <terrapin> one potential option occurs to me---SoA = frost brand + angelslayer? angelslayer is about as good as it gets, and you still get the frost+fire thing
17:44 <K2> hrm no. cat is out of the bag, if i nerf the SoA... ugh
17:44 <terrapin> I guess angelslayer is getting a bit of a nerf so it may not be as good a choice
17:44 <K2> or i could make it really hard to get
17:44 <K2> excalibur + dirge
17:45 <Umbire> what's the nerf for angelslayer?
17:45 <K2> yeah i was about to ask
17:45 <K2> what nerf?
17:45 <terrapin> damage bonus doesn't work vs. demons and is halved vs. fire resistant targets
17:45 <K2> oh
17:45 <K2> that's not a nerf, that's a fix :)
17:46 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack
17:46 <K2> read backscroll Loggers_VIII
17:46 <Loggers_VIII> uh oh
17:46 <K2> important discussions are afoot
17:46 <K2> (at the circle K)
17:46 -!- elenmirie has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
17:47 <Loggers_VIII> I will say when I've read it so no one talk until then >:(
17:48 <Loggers_VIII> ok I'm caught up
17:48 <Loggers_VIII> I think excal+dirge is a cool idea
17:49 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] eggandhull (Sam Gia Mal Law) killed the Goblin King, on T:3461 (0:28:00)
17:49 <Loggers_VIII> overall I just think that soa should be harder to get, since it is just the best weapon in the game by no small margin
17:49 <terrapin> i'd worry it skews SoA too much towards lawfuls---crown and wish for dirge, or farm for Graz'zt
17:49 <Loggers_VIII> hmr
17:49 <Loggers_VIII> *hrm
17:49 <terrapin> they already have GoPur, they should be satisfied with that! :)
17:50 <Loggers_VIII> one option would be to make the SoA recipe two-step, but all that really means is that you will farm more
17:50 <Loggers_VIII> and I already think there's too much farming incentivized in evil
17:51 <terrapin> i think the fact that Loggers and others have somewhat frequently converted to lawful for long swords, HotG, and GoPur is already a concerning indication that artifact alignments are a bit unbalanced
17:51 <Loggers_VIII> lawfuls definitely have the best selection currently
17:52 <Loggers_VIII> they get long sword if they don't have it already, they get hotg, soa, and grayswandir/gopur
17:52 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] eggandhull (Sam Gia Mal Law) had Snickersnee bestowed upon him by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:3935 (0:31:23)
17:52 <Loggers_VIII> neutrals have tempest which is good but quite a bit more niche
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17:52 <Loggers_VIII> chaotics have shadowblade which is just not as good as some of the other options
17:53 <Loggers_VIII> I think it's interesting to have certain alignments have advantages over others, but I think it may be a bit too skewed toward lawful currently
17:53 <terrapin> yeah i'm not against there being differences but if they're large enough that converting is a frequent tactic that seems a bit much
17:54 <terrapin> back to SoA, is the largest concern about nerfing SoA player feedback?
17:54 <xdminsy> morning!
17:54 <K2> i went heavy a bit on lawful forged artiacts because previously i had plussed up chaotic artifacts
17:54 <terrapin> o/
17:54 <K2> heya xdminsy
17:55 <Loggers_VIII> I think what really puts the nail in the coffin is when you look at my most recent drow con; played most of the late game with SoA, which convicts don't have skill for, and HotG, which is a light-producing artifact; neither of these things really complement a drow con but they're so good I went so far out of my way to use them
17:55 <Loggers_VIII> hi xdminsy o/
17:56 <Loggers_VIII> a change that people will not like and that you will not agree with is making the brands neutral
17:56 <Loggers_VIII> as opposed to nonaligned
17:56 <K2> yeah i'm not going to do that
17:57 <Loggers_VIII> but I think it's clear that SoA needs some retooling, whether that be in its offensive capability or its ease of use/access
17:57 <Loggers_VIII> almost everyone uses it just because it is objectively the best
17:57 <K2> i dont want to change its specs
17:57 <K2> but the cost paid to get it needs to go up
17:57 <Loggers_VIII> definitely
17:59 <Loggers_VIII> currently it's one of the easiest artifacts to get for any role
17:59 <Loggers_VIII> *alignment
17:59 <Loggers_VIII> ughhh this is such a conundrum
18:00 <Loggers_VIII> normally I can come up with SOMETHING for discussions like this but I am stumped
18:00 <K2> its ok
18:00 <K2> sometimes things need to cook a bit
18:00 <K2> in the brain
18:00 <Loggers_VIII> yea
18:00 <terrapin> what about, like, angelslayer and body part of vecna? any alignment can get it, but only after a certain point in the game and both artifacts are usually quite desirable. and vecna's sort of frost-themed
18:00 <K2> that's interesting
18:00 <K2> you're definitely earning it then
18:01 <K2> <any vecna body part> + <some artifact>
18:01 <K2> err angelslayer
18:01 <K2> yeah
18:01 <K2> and angelslayer is guaranteed to drop (first balrog)
18:02 <Loggers_VIII> I forget, are the brands gonna be long swords again?
18:02 <K2> i'm leaning towards that
18:02 <Loggers_VIII> give angelslayer to lucifer :)
18:02 <K2> i'd also like fire + frost brand to make a diff artifact
18:02 <terrapin> isn't angelslayer just like 5% for any balrog?
18:02 <terrapin> it's unaligned regardless
18:02 <K2> its like sunsword/archon
18:03 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:2569 (0:17:28)
18:04 <K2> yeah 5%
18:05 <K2> terrapin i like that idea
18:05 <K2> hah and if you attach the hand of vecna, oh well
18:06 <K2> no SoA for you
18:06 <K2> or you do get it but you're now short one arm
18:06 <K2> ^ SMOP
18:06 <Loggers_VIII> idk, why angelslayer?
18:07 <K2> its unaligned
18:07 <xdminsy> That's good that balrog can offer angelslayer, but maybe then it's hard to unrestrict trident for some roles.
18:07 <Loggers_VIII> ah
18:07 <terrapin> also frost + fire
18:07 <xdminsy> If it can be forged into other weapon class, maybe more useful.
18:07 <terrapin> not much frost in vecna but he's a lich and the eye gives cold resistance, so that's something
18:08 <Loggers_VIII> I like the idea but it also means that players who use gopur don't really have to sacrifice anything to get soa
18:08 <Loggers_VIII> I've already tossed vecna's hand a bunch because I forged that arti
18:08 <K2> i think the point being, you have to work for one of the imgredients
18:09 <Loggers_VIII> yeah
18:09 <K2> vecna body part + magic 8 ball
18:09 <K2> hahahah
18:09 <terrapin> could always do * of vecna and dragonbane. less thematic but maybe better balanced
18:09 <Loggers_VIII> funny idea: SoA can only be obtained through an 8 ball wish
18:10 <terrapin> hahaha
18:10 <K2> omg
18:10 <Loggers_VIII> also change soa to a runesword
18:11 <Loggers_VIII> no reason other than it's cooler than a longsword
18:11 <K2> terrapin, perhaps * of vecna + another forged artifact
18:11 <terrapin> one thing i'd worry about with making SoA a two-step recipe is that AoR becomes three steps, which seems like a lot
18:11 <K2> hmm true
18:11 <Loggers_VIII> yeah when modifying soa gotta keep aor in mind
18:12 <Loggers_VIII> though it seems fitting. because aor is op as fuck lol
18:12 <K2> and if dragon bane is used, no GoPur (I get that) but then no chance for ithilmar either
18:12 <Loggers_VIII> blocking it behind vecna seems like a good byproduct
18:13 <K2> hmm
18:13 <K2> yeah i like making * of vecna a recipe item
18:13 <K2> * of vecna + lifestealer?
18:13 <terrapin> whatever the recipe, if it's no longer coming from the brands it does seem like the base type could be changed. i'm partial to axe---tricky to unrestrict, mediocre base damage
18:14 <terrapin> yeah I considered lifestealer, but no one uses that except giants
18:14 <terrapin> maybe tortles if they really need drain res
18:14 <Loggers_VIII> nah swords have the cool factor that soa needs
18:14 <K2> i agree with Loggers_VIII on that point
18:14 <terrapin> fair, the "handaxe of annihilation" is a bit underwhelming
18:14 <K2> so we come back around to * of vecna + angelslayer?
18:15 <Loggers_VIII> I still think it could be made two-handed and we wouldn't have to consider this whole mess anyway but whatever :)
18:15 <terrapin> ^
18:15 <Loggers_VIII> also worth noting that two hand soa and vecna+angelslayer recipe are not mutually exclusive
18:16 <K2> if the SoA were a two-hander... omg giant samurai
18:16 <K2> it would be too powerful if that's even possible
18:16 <terrapin> make it two-handed even for giants
18:16 <Loggers_VIII> but it would be the same as it is now since they can just wield soa and something else
18:17 <K2> making it twohanded is going to limit what roles can use it
18:17 <Loggers_VIII> yes :)
18:17 <Loggers_VIII> or you can get crowned
18:18 <Loggers_VIII> if you don't wanna do it I think the angelslayer+* of vecna thing is enough but I just wanna throw it out there for the records
18:18 <K2> terrapin was ^ in ref to my comment or Loggers_VIII?
18:18 <terrapin> both, I guess
18:18 <Loggers_VIII> \o/ everyone wins
18:18 <Loggers_VIII> not sure what we win, but we do
18:18 <terrapin> and yeah I'm with Loggers on his second-to-last comment
18:18 <terrapin> third-to last
18:18 <K2> hmm
18:18 <terrapin> and second, I guess
18:18 <Loggers_VIII> it's hard not to agree with me, I understand
18:19 <Loggers_VIII> :P
18:19 <K2> * of vecna + sword of kas
18:19 <terrapin> i couldn't have put it better myself
18:19 <Loggers_VIII> I like that idea
18:19 <terrapin> do people use kas much?
18:19 <Loggers_VIII> nope
18:19 <K2> not really
18:20 <terrapin> i rate it around lifestealer-tier usually
18:20 <K2> but you gotta work for that one too
18:20 <Loggers_VIII> it's a lot better than lifestealer actually
18:20 <Loggers_VIII> stat-wise
18:20 <terrapin> true
18:20 <terrapin> but a lot of the work getting it also goes into getting * of vecna
18:20 <Loggers_VIII> lifestealer for some reason does a lot less drain than stormbringer despite having way more disadvantages
18:20 <K2> less drain?
18:21 <terrapin> they do the same amount
18:21 <K2> yeah its one level drain per hit
18:21 <Loggers_VIII> huh, someone in here told me it was less damage
18:21 <K2> there's no way
18:21 <K2> bnuses maybe (without looking)
18:21 <terrapin> they do less drli damage than shadowblade but the amount healed is the same
18:22 <terrapin> yeah what k2 said---lifestealer/stormy are 1d2 and shadowblade is 1d10
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18:22 <K2> a giant wielding lifestealer will carve through everything
18:22 <K2> base damage, boom
18:22 <terrapin> mostly just makes up for shadowblade having a shitty base type though (damage-wise)
18:22 <Loggers_VIII> I'm taking this opportunity to circle back to my YANI about kas+lifestealer forged arti that only giants can wield
18:22 <K2> heh
18:23 <K2> sword of kas + lifestealer = Dorf Tosser
18:23 <Loggers_VIII> lol
18:23 <K2> :P
18:23 <Loggers_VIII> anyway moving back to soa
18:23 <K2> ok so
18:23 <Loggers_VIII> what's the verdict? what's the mood what's the room temperature
18:24 <Loggers_VIII> how, in fact, are we feelin
18:24 <K2> i'm thinking this right now:
18:24 <K2> * of vecna + angelslayer = SoA
18:24 <K2> (yay terrapin)
18:24 <K2> sword of kas + lifestealer = some chaotic artifact that's cool
18:24 <Loggers_VIII> fires of hell+deathly cold=disint? I like it
18:24 <K2> brands = something new but not crazy OP
18:25 <Loggers_VIII> brands can be my beloved two hander
18:25 <terrapin> like brands forged together or just a change to each?
18:25 <Loggers_VIII> it tracks if they gonna be longswords
18:25 <K2> terrapin - in splicehack, the brands forged together made an artifact that did both fire/cold damage
18:25 <terrapin> oh neat
18:25 <K2> the way antigulp did it looked... weird
18:25 <K2> i didnt quite grok it
18:25 <terrapin> frost brand + fire brand = blessed tin of icy hot
18:26 <K2> LOL
18:26 <Loggers_VIII> pff
18:26 <xdminsy> Sword of kas + lifestealer = wand of orcus lol.
18:26 <K2> xdminsy hahah
18:26 <Loggers_VIII> ^ funny idea
18:26 <K2> i really wanna switch the brands back to longsword
18:26 <Loggers_VIII> actually, badass idea: make one of the new forged artis a "<weapon> of <playername>"
18:26 <terrapin> that would make conversion shenanigans die down too
18:26 <terrapin> (switching the brands back)
18:27 <K2> yeah
18:27 <K2> 'the tin opening of Loggers_VIII'
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18:27 <K2> opener
18:27 <Loggers_VIII> lol
18:28 <terrapin> if you lie a vault guard about your name it evades your grasp
18:28 <Loggers_VIII> all of the artifacts are always someone else's I want the player to feel like they're now becoming someone of note
18:28 <Loggers_VIII> brb food
18:29 <K2> ok so
18:29 <terrapin> kas + lifestealer could be like "War's Sword" or something
18:29 <K2> i got enough to go on for SoA recipe change
18:29 <K2> will do that first
18:29 <K2> should be easiest to do
18:30 <terrapin> neat
18:30 <K2> side note:
18:30 <K2> if an artifact gives off magical light, drow shouldnt even be able to handle it
18:30 <K2> shouldnt matter if source darkness cancels out the light for being in light/dark purposes
18:31 <K2> so sunsword, HotG
18:31 <K2> but can worry bout that later
18:35 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed]
18:35 <xdminsy> loggers dislike this and decide to quit :P
18:35 <terrapin> haha antigulp set frostburn's attack to digestion? that's some top-notch kludging
18:36 <K2> i dont like that
18:36 <K2> would rather create a new damage type altogether
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18:36 <terrapin> yeah
18:36 <Loggers_VIII> agreed
18:37 <Loggers_VIII> k2 can we make an exception for lawful drow re: light weapons
18:38 <Loggers_VIII> pretty please :)
18:38 <terrapin> you can always polymorph, Loggers
18:39 <xdminsy> Or some little nerf, like you can see not that far when wielding such artifacts.
18:39 <Loggers_VIII> ah, it removes ultravision maye
18:39 <Loggers_VIII> *maybe
18:40 <terrapin> ooh that would be neat
18:40 <terrapin> one-square vision or walking around lit all the time
18:40 <Loggers_VIII> whoa my connection is doing strange things
18:40 <Loggers_VIII> wha da hell
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18:40 <terrapin> i guess eye of vecna messes with that a bit
18:40 <Loggers_VIII> ah fuck are these messages sending
18:40 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Client Quit]
18:42 <K2> yes they are
18:42 -!- Log has joined #evilhack
18:42 <Log> uhh testing testing 123?
18:42 <Umbire> Test failed.
18:42 <Umbire> Security alerted.
18:42 <Log> wonderful
18:42 -!- Log is now known as Loggers_VIII
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18:45 <K2> nice... that was pretty straight forward
18:45 <K2> you cant forge hand of vecna with <anything> if the hand is attached, there's already a case preventing worn objects from being used to forge
18:48 <xdminsy> loggers once I mailed splunge to invite him to #evilhack.
18:48 <xdminsy> He read and didn't reply :P
18:49 <Loggers_VIII> wow
18:50 <xdminsy> I guess maybe he doesn't wanna talk and may avoiding spoilers.
18:50 <Loggers_VIII> yea
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18:51 <[> will the SoA changes be in the next version?
18:51 <K2> yeah
18:51 <K2> going to add a chance for a forge to appear on final vecna level
18:52 <Loggers_VIII> cool
18:52 <Loggers_VIII> there's one in wiztower also, right?
18:52 <K2> yup
18:52 <K2> dbl check the commit, i cant remember if its a chance or guaranteed
18:53 <Loggers_VIII> p sure it's guaranteed
18:55 <[> How useful is the purgatory forge in practice? You probably don't want to undress to change and enchant armour at that point.
18:57 <Loggers_VIII> ok there's two forges in wiztower each with a 50% chance of showing up it looks like
18:57 <terrapin> most forged things are weapons, so not much undressing is needed. but yeah, i've never used it
18:58 <Loggers_VIII> whenever I get to purgatory I'm riding the high of the ascension run and can't be bothered to forge stuff
18:58 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) murdered his faithful goblin shaman, on T:7215 (1:12:11)
18:58 <Loggers_VIII> and anyway you're past the biggest challenges by that point anyway so you prob have your full asc kit; the forges are a nice addition but not needed most of the time
19:00 <terrapin> speaking of forges...
19:00 <botifico> [EvilHack] saltwaterterrapin opened pull request #140: Forges are always lit - https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/pull/140
19:01 <Loggers_VIII> speaking of forges, I was wondering; why do they stop thrown items?
19:01 <terrapin> yeah i've always wondered that myself
19:01 <Loggers_VIII> I think I understand why sinks do, but not forges
19:02 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) wished for "uncursed greased fixed magic marker", on T:100431 (1 day, 3:05:32)
19:03 <terrapin> yeah the sink thing is a pun, i'm pretty sure. i guess you could see sinks/forges as physical objects that block projectiles but I'd think they would be too low
19:04 <botifico> [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±4] https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/compare/db935dfeae29...1a073a002f1e
19:04 <botifico> [EvilHack] k21971 1a073a0 - Sword of Annihilation recipe changes.
19:04 <Loggers_VIII> yeah the sink thing is for the same reason sinks make you crash to the floor when you lev over them I assume
19:08 <K2> oh terrapin you figured it out?
19:08 <K2> also https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/pull/140/commits/19fd0813478a292f73a390326f23e375139c69e9#diff-eec82ec2931f374ce1a0b5e270274dfa670d55e346714ba7f32f20a65091e9a2R4407 <--- missing ()
19:10 <terrapin> ah thanks
19:10 <terrapin> yeah i missed the sel_set_feature the first few times
19:10 <K2> nice job figuring it out
19:11 <terrapin> apparently the mkmap checks happen before anything is placed from the stuff below the map
19:17 <terrapin> K2 do you have an opinion of the forge/thrown items interaction? i could change that while i'm at it if you'd like
19:18 <botifico> [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/compare/1a073a002f1e...6315f918361a
19:18 <botifico> [EvilHack] k21971 6315f91 - Fix: add bracers to pair_of() define.
19:18 <K2> forges should block thrown objects like sinks do. that is on purpose
19:19 <terrapin> okay cool
19:19 <K2> if you want to add those missing () to the forge lit commit, i'll pull it
19:19 <terrapin> just did
19:20 <K2> woop
19:20 <K2> huh hasnt shown up on the PR yet
19:20 <terrapin> oh wait it isn't pushed
19:20 <K2> heh
19:20 <terrapin> *now* we're good
19:20 <K2> \o/
19:23 <botifico> [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±7] https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/compare/6315f918361a...07df0196c3b8
19:23 <botifico> [EvilHack] saltwaterterrapin 19fd081 - Forges are always lit
19:23 <botifico> [EvilHack] saltwaterterrapin ce8cc6c - Parentheses
19:23 <botifico> [EvilHack] k21971 07df019 - Merge pull request #140 from saltwaterterrapin/master
19:26 <K2> the recipe change for SoA also prevents the AoR from being obtained too early as well
19:27 <K2> i feel this is a better balance
19:27 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a wererat, on T:9227 (1:37:08)
19:29 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 8857 points, T:9228, killed by the Rat King
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19:33 <Umbire> Late but I'm not feeling the Vecna/Angelslayer recipe, at least not immediately. Might need to sit on it more
19:33 <Umbire> Input probably doesn't matter all that much at this point anyway
19:34 <Umbire> My mind's been elsewhere unfortunately
19:35 <Loggers_VIII> tbh it is a little weird but whatever
19:36 <Loggers_VIII> already committed
19:44 <K2> ingredients can be weird for artifacts. magic is in play
19:45 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:2365 (0:16:27)
19:46 <Loggers_VIII> magic should be more chaotic
19:47 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed Cerberus, on T:101420 (1 day, 3:50:52)
19:47 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) entered Gehennom, on T:101444 (1 day, 3:51:14)
19:48 <K2> food time bbl
19:51 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed Geryon, on T:101562 (1 day, 3:54:59)
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20:02 <krm26> mmm, i missed recipe changes?
20:04 <terrapin> https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/1a073a002f1ed0c6da45e839c24d5ecebedf5d2a
20:04 <Loggers_VIII> longstory short in next version
20:04 <Loggers_VIII> 1) SoA is going to be body part of vecna+angelslayer
20:04 <Loggers_VIII> 2) fbrand+fbrand is gonna be something new
20:04 <Loggers_VIII> 3) lifestealer+sword of kas is gonna be something nwe
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20:07 <krm26> i like the sword of annihilation recipe change, i still think it should not be a longsword
20:08 <krm26> axe, scimitar, trident -- something without massive current representation
20:08 <Loggers_VIII> ew axe
20:08 <krm26> morningstar
20:08 <terrapin> i floated axe
20:08 <krm26> flail
20:08 <krm26> aklys of annihilation
20:09 <Loggers_VIII> i think sword of annihilation is here to stay
20:09 <krm26> could be called that and still be a scimitar :-)
20:09 <terrapin> one issue is finding a weapon skill that not too many roles have
20:09 <terrapin> scimitar is merged with saber, or else it would be a good choice
20:10 <Loggers_VIII> scimitars are not as cool
20:10 <krm26> i hope if scimitar + saber is merged knife and dagger are merged for the love of pete
20:10 <terrapin> i'm not super happy with long sword but i also think it's hard to find something else with the same feel. also K2 seems pretty set on keeping it
20:12 <krm26> one consequence of this recipe change is that it takes 0 turns to make soa once you get to vecna, where before you had to generally fart around to get the materials (not saying that is better or worse)
20:12 <Loggers_VIII> I mean you still gotta get angelslayer
20:13 <krm26> right, so it is basically a wish for soa
20:13 <krm26> to make it nice and fast
20:13 <Loggers_VIII> ew why would you wish for an artifact when you can get a marker instead
20:14 <Loggers_VIII> it's even unaligned you can just camp for it and get it for free
20:14 <krm26> i mean, if you could wish for soa as your first artifact wish and get it, you generally would, right? especially not using your first wish until gehennom
20:14 <krm26> if markers were removed from evilhack it would not materially effect the game for me at all
20:15 <Loggers_VIII> that is because you like to camp for 20 hours every game which gives you all the resources you need
20:15 <terrapin> it's a wish and not having angelslayer or vecna items, though
20:15 <Loggers_VIII> and still somehow find reasons to do things like wish for artifacts
20:15 <terrapin> as opposed to the current cost of tedium and artifacts nobody uses
20:15 <krm26> i generally wish for one quest artifact per game just because
20:15 <terrapin> although the brands are probably being reverted so they'll be more popular
20:16 <krm26> i like them as short swords
20:17 <krm26> the most longsword-proficient classes have plenty of choices already
20:17 <terrapin> yeah
20:17 <krm26> i mean, sunsword/vorpal/excalibur/dirge, come ON
20:17 <terrapin> especially with SoA's recipe changed i feel like the brands would see more use as-is
20:17 <krm26> in fact i decided to devote myself entirely to evilhack when the brands were shortsworded
20:18 <krm26> nothing for me to do now but go play slex!
20:18 <krm26> :-|
20:18 <Loggers_VIII> hush
20:19 <Loggers_VIII> you can play xnethack, they're short swords there too
20:20 <Umbire> I don't like the idea of long sword brands either but that slex barb feels more juvenile than warranted, even if it's a joke
20:20 <krm26> so with this change i see eye = soa, hand = screw it
20:20 <krm26> (i'm not part of slex's target audience, you'll have to pry evilhack out of my cold dead hands)
20:20 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Mephistopheles, on T:102706 (1 day, 4:24:18)
20:21 -!- xdminsy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:21 <Loggers_VIII> does slex have a target audience?
20:21 <krm26> that was ALSO a joke :-)
20:21 <terrapin> i always assumed it specifically created not to
20:21 <Loggers_VIII> lol
20:21 -!- xdminsy has joined #evilhack
20:22 <Umbire> that said we're well aware of the short sword/long sword situation so I don't care to retread all that ground
20:22 <krm26> i almost think soa should be a 2-forge recipe
20:22 <Loggers_VIII> we talked about that earlier
20:22 <Loggers_VIII> decided against it
20:22 <krm26> like kas+lifestealer, angelslayer+(any artifact longsword), soa
20:23 <Umbire> keeping them short swords and fusing them into a saber might be something but there's the 3.7 merge thing so
20:23 <krm26> locks soa into endgame-only
20:23 <Loggers_VIII>  yeah but I don't think endgame-only is interesting
20:23 <Loggers_VIII> lategame-only is a little more fun
20:23 <krm26> anyway the vecna change is very big, i've made soa in a game before i've cleared the quest
20:24 <Umbire> 3.6.7 saber skill is for 8 roles, 4 of those get skilled or higher
20:24 <Loggers_VIII> yeah I know xdminsy's made armor of retribution before even going past level 14
20:24 <krm26> that's harder, need forge luck for that
20:24 <Umbire> roughly the same with scimitar
20:24 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 5333 points, T:4765, killed by a lava gremlin
20:30 <xdminsy> Lol, as long as you have an coaligned altar and 3 forges.
20:30 <xdminsy> Where's the vecna's domain, isn't it one level under votd?
20:34 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) averted death (killed by a giant mimic), on T:1561 (0:09:11)
20:35 <bouquet> there's a magic portal there somewhere.
20:35 <bouquet> if you use confused gold detection or a crystal ball you can find it quick.
20:35 <xdminsy> Wth is The flames of hell are slowly burning you alive..
20:36 <bouquet> you lost some intrinsic fire protection
20:36 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] eggandhull (Sam Gia Mal Law), 17161 points, T:9951, petrified by touching a chickatrice corpse bare-handed
20:36 <bouquet> did a & remove it?
20:36 <xdminsy> Ah yes, I'm now 50%..
20:36 <bouquet> I think it lasts about 100-200 turns.
20:36 <xdminsy> Okay thx.
20:36 <bouquet> it's annoying, especially if they cast hellfire on you.
20:37 <bouquet> I don't think a ring of fire prot will even protect you under these circumstances.
20:41 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed]
20:46 <K2> i may leave the brands as short swords
20:46 <K2> i dunno
20:47 <K2> i just dont see them being used as often in current form
20:49 <krm26> i think they are pretty good
20:49 <K2> i'm torn
20:49 <krm26> but to make them comparable to some of the instakills, they could have an instakill shot at ice/fire things
20:49 <K2> conflicted
20:49 <K2> that's interesting
20:49 <krm26> like firebrand could have a 10% instagib shot at snow golems, ice devils
20:49 <krm26> and frostbrand on salamanders, etc
20:50 <krm26> kind of parallelizes them with demonbane, sunsword, etc
20:50 <krm26> plus the general elemental damage -- even in short sword form, i think that is pretty juicy
20:50 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) became literate by engraving "sdflkj", on T:3502 (0:25:43)
20:51 <krm26> could always punt (note: i do not like this idea :-) and forge frost brand (ss) + long sword (maybe of frost) -> frost brand (ls)
20:51 <krm26> so it is just user's choice, one extra step if you wanna longsword it
20:52 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack
20:53 <bouquet> thanks for the PLAIN spellbook lolth. Worst. Deity, Evar
20:54 <Loggers_VIII> pls just make them longswords
20:54 <Loggers_VIII> no one has used the brands by themselves since forged artifacts were added
20:55 <Loggers_VIII> actually I tried once and got gangbanged by double trouble rodney because my damage output sucked
20:57 <Loggers_VIII> and this was as tourist, which has expert skill in ls
20:57 <Loggers_VIII> *ss
20:57 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) destroyed Kas, on T:104018 (1 day, 5:00:43)
20:58 <krm26> the plan spellbook gift is so craptastic
20:58 <krm26> it should go byebye
20:58 <krm26> plan/plain
20:59 <krm26> that's kinda bs loggers, priests are still as ascendable as ever :-)
20:59 <Loggers_VIII> why are you talking about priest
20:59 <Loggers_VIII> what's priest have to do with a tourist using frost brand
20:59 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed Baphomet, on T:104093 (1 day, 5:03:15)
21:03 <Noisytoot> you could have a randomized base type as in dnh
21:04 <Noisytoot> (there are several possible base types, can wish for any valid base type, can be gifted as a subset of those with certain ones biased, monks will always get gauntlets, the base type of the second is always the same as the base type of the first to be generated)
21:05 <Noisytoot> (I think any one-handed slashing weapon (+ gauntlets) is valid, with some exceptions, but not all of those are giftable. Gauntlets apply extra damage to unarmed attacks.)
21:06 <Noisytoot> maybe piercing weapons too, but I don't think blunt is valid
21:06 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Rog Dro Fem Cha) was chosen to steal souls for the Glory of Lolth, on T:104402 (1 day, 3:28:57)
21:07 <bouquet> short swords should hit more frequently that long swords.  Less damage per hit, but more opportunities to hit.
21:08 <terrapin> possibly worth noting that xnethack's short sword brands are the only artifacts that can be dual-wielded---not an advantage in evilhack
21:08 <terrapin> if it's a matter of damage they could always be made mithril/crystal, too
21:09 <Loggers_VIII> make them glass
21:09 <Loggers_VIII> although, glass can't be forged can it
21:09 <terrapin> that would be legit cool
21:10 <terrapin> artifacts already have special forging rules
21:10 <Loggers_VIII> ikr?
21:10 <Noisytoot> I think frost brand is glass and fire brand is obsidian in dnh
21:10 <Loggers_VIII> for 0.8.3 can we finally fix the bug that makes getting strength from uncursed gain ability give no msg
21:11 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) destroyed Vecna, on T:104457 (1 day, 5:14:29)
21:11 <Loggers_VIII> nice xdminsy
21:12 <xdminsy> I heard that a neothelid in wizard's tower, waht should I do?
21:12 <K2> chance of one
21:12 <K2> not in current build
21:12 <Loggers_VIII> that's in next version
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21:12 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed]
21:13 <xdminsy> Ah okay.
21:15 <K2> i'm not sure what to do with forging the brands
21:15 <K2> combining the two damage types into one weapon is not trivial
21:16 <krm26> baby steps!
21:16 <krm26> could randomly pick a damage type each swing
21:16 <krm26> that would be pretty simple
21:16 <K2> oof
21:16 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed bag of holding", on T:5759 (0:51:54)
21:17 -!- arahael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
21:18 <xdminsy> Maybe into one do double fire and frost damage, and may targets fire/cold resistance?
21:19 <xdminsy> remove targets resistance.
21:19 -!- arahael has joined #evilhack
21:19 <Noisytoot> double damage to both non-fire-resistant and non-cold resistant?
21:19 <Noisytoot> meaning double damage to anything that doesn't resist both
21:19 <K2> hmm
21:19 <terrapin> yeah that's how splice does it
21:19 <K2> yeah i'm looking at its commit that added frostburn
21:20 <krm26> cleaver arc of fire and frost damage!
21:20 <krm26> burn baby
21:20 <K2> sword of icyhot
21:20 <K2> do not apply to groin area
21:20 <Noisytoot> cleaver arc is bad if it attacks peacefuls
21:20 <krm26> cleaver has been souped up
21:20 <K2> Noisytoot, your comment about dnh random weapon type for certain artifacts is interesting
21:21 <K2> it looks like splicehack did that too for some artifacts - https://github.com/k21971/SpliceHack/commit/ca1598916493e20ffc33c79acf14b38015acdf88
21:21 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Con Orc Mal Cha) became literate by reading The Blacksmith's Cookbook, on T:6704 (1:03:08)
21:22 <bouquet> is there an artifact polearm in evilhack?
21:22 <terrapin> tempest!
21:22 <bouquet> I love polearms!
21:23 <bouquet> A silver halberd of frost is in my essential kit for gehennom.
21:23 <Noisytoot> dnh collapses the wave function when the first of frost/fire brand is generated (so you can wish for different base types), splicehack seems to collapse it at game start
21:23 -!- arahael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
21:23 <bouquet> clear those pesky &'s from their cages
21:25 <K2> what do you all think? the brands being a random sword type?
21:26 <K2> i think it's neat
21:26 <K2> worth a look
21:26 <krm26> no reason for them to be in lockstep tho
21:26 <K2> not at all
21:26 <K2> fire brand could spawn as a long sword, frost brand as a saber
21:26 <K2> or whatever
21:26 <K2> and it'd be different each game
21:27 <krm26> i think that would be cool
21:27 <krm26> you'd need to check the wish code to allow specification or non-specification
21:27 <K2> in splicehack it doesnt look like you can specify the blade type
21:28 <K2> you get what you get
21:28 <krm26> lame
21:28 <krm26> if you're gonna burn a wish on something you can get form offering, you should be able to customize it
21:29 <K2> then what's the point in randomizing them?
21:29 <krm26> randomized unless you wish
21:29 <krm26> a wish is a big deal
21:30 <krm26> presumably people would mostly do it when they lucked into perfect-form frost and then wished for perfect-form fire to complement it :-)
21:31 <K2> dammit... just found a bug with grimtooth (and fixed it)
21:31 <K2> SPFX_ATTK wasn't specified for grimtooth in artilist.h when it's damage type was switched from PHYS to DISE
21:32 <K2> meaning it's damage was always physical
21:32 <K2> it would still disease its target at random, but still
21:34 <K2> brb
21:37 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Orcus, on T:105226 (1 day, 5:40:39)
21:48 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) defeated the invisible Kathryn the Ice Queen, on T:105826 (1 day, 5:52:14)
21:50 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) destroyed the invisible lacca's ghost, the former Brute, on T:8552 (1:25:58)
22:02 <K2> hmm
22:03 <K2> the more I think abo0ut it, the more I think it's best to leave artifacts as a set type. nethack is all about randomness, but some  things you should be able to bank on. artifact base type should probably be one of those
22:03 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:106731 (1 day, 6:07:09)
22:03 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:106732 (1 day, 6:07:11)
22:04 <K2> in splicehack it looks like when you forge frostburn, it's base type is also random. you wont know what you're going to get exactly
22:04 <K2> that would kinda piss me off if i were hoping for a weapon i was proficient in and got something else
22:05 <Noisytoot> Does splicehack have the "you can't reliably hit anything with an unskilled weapon" thing?
22:05 <terrapin> you could special-case it like it takes the weapon type of the second brand you use to forge it
22:05 <K2> Noisytoot I dont know. probably not
22:06 <terrapin> not that i endorse the randomization necessarily, but
22:06 <K2> terrapin i'm not sure i want to even go down this path. no one has asked for random base types for artifacts, just happened to notice it/noisytoot mentioned it happens in dnh
22:06 <K2> yeah
22:07 <K2> i need to sleep on it
22:07 <K2> i do feel like we made a better balance with SoA changes today tho
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22:11 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Con Orc Mal Cha) had Luck Blade bestowed upon him by Tymora, on T:9900 (1:53:28)
22:12 <K2> and i need to think on what lifestealer + sword of kas could become. cant back out on that now I suppose, or loggers will hunt me down :)
22:15 -!- arahael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
22:16 -!- aosdict has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.0.2]
22:19 <terrapin> heh :)
22:24 <K2> i think i know what I wanna do with fire/frost brand forged together
22:26 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack
22:26 <Loggers_VIII> I heard my name echoing out through the ether
22:26 <Loggers_VIII> ah damn that was like 14 minutes ago not relevant anymore
22:27 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Con Orc Mal Cha), 14144 points, T:11131, killed by a dwarf lady, while sleeping
22:28 <terrapin> gah
22:29 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Con Orc Mal Cha), 19 points, T:254, killed by an arrow
22:29 <Loggers_VIII> :(
22:29 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed the invisible Asmodeus, on T:107253 (1 day, 6:33:20)
22:30 <terrapin> i'm just not vibing with convicts
22:30 <Loggers_VIII> understandable
22:30 <Loggers_VIII> not enough time to get one in before xdminsy ascends now anyway
22:30 <terrapin> haha true
22:30 <xdminsy> Maybe I'd die lol :P
22:31 <Loggers_VIII> I don't think so
22:31 <xdminsy> Lol I often do silly mistakes..
22:31 <Loggers_VIII> you guys don't really die on astral
22:31 <Loggers_VIII> when I see krm26, terrapin, mobileuser, xdminsy etc. get to the lategame it's almost 100% they ascend
22:31 <Loggers_VIII> I am the one you can't bet on :P
22:33 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Con Orc Mal Cha), 35 points, T:354, killed by a jackal, while fainted from lack of food
22:34 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Con Orc Fem Cha), 82 points, T:141, killed by a newt
22:41 <xdminsy> Haha, i'm same to you loggers.
22:42 <Loggers_VIII> I don't know, I have an impressively bad track record for the endgame
22:42 <Loggers_VIII> I splatted so many con dros on the ascension run
22:43 <xdminsy> Emmm wizard of yendor resist death ray?
22:43 <terrapin> he gets an MR amulet half the time
22:43 <Loggers_VIII> there's a 50% chance he has MR amulet
22:44 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:107806 (1 day, 6:47:30)
22:44 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:107806 (1 day, 6:47:32)
22:45 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Con Orc Mal Cha), 809 points, T:1678, killed by the Goblin King
22:45 <xdminsy> I think I should replace my helm of brilliance to dragonhide :P
22:46 <Loggers_VIII> you can't
22:46 <xdminsy> Meh why?
22:46 <Loggers_VIII> only helm of speed can be dragonhide, for reasons that aren't entirely clear to me
22:47 <xdminsy> Well I see, maybe cuz helm of brilliance is iron.
22:47 <terrapin> something something tortles
22:47 <Loggers_VIII> k2 you still awake
22:47 <terrapin> though they can wear any helms next version. maybe speed helms should go back to the normal iron/steel material list?
22:47 <Loggers_VIII> I was just about to say that
22:48 <terrapin> it would make them slightly less overwhelmingly good
22:48 <K2> hi
22:48 <Hecubus> Hello K2, Welcome to #evilhack
22:48 <Loggers_VIII> make speed helms unable to be soft materials next version because it would be funny :)
22:49 <K2> ok
22:53 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) performed the invocation, on T:108086 (1 day, 6:56:41)
22:53 <xdminsy> Should I kill lucifer or just skip him?
22:54 <Loggers_VIII> you can't skip him
22:54 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed]
22:54 <xdminsy> Ah okay..
23:02 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack
23:02 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Client Quit]
23:04 -!- Loggers_VIII has joined #evilhack
23:05 <Loggers_VIII> !whereis xdminsy
23:05 <Hecubus> Loggers_VIII: [hdf-us] xdminsy [evil]: (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) T:108433 The Dungeons of Doom level: 10
23:05 -!- k3ut0i has joined #evilhack
23:05 <xdminsy> I got hit by alhoon several times and forgot some spells.. :P
23:05 <Loggers_VIII> lol
23:06 <Loggers_VIII> just genocide them
23:07 <xdminsy> Lol I'd do next time.
23:12 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:13724 (2:47:51)
23:21 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed the human high priestess of Moloch, on T:109000 (1 day, 7:24:48)
23:21 <K2> !who
23:21 <Hecubus> K2: [hdf-us] xdminsy [evil] terrapin [evil] Splunge [evil] :: [hdf-eu] k3ut0i [evil] :: [hdf-au] No current players
23:21 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:109004 (1 day, 7:24:58)
23:21 <K2> making some progress with dual damage type artifact
23:22 <K2> noticing some shortcomings with splicehack implementation, resolving here
23:22 <Loggers_VIII> nice
23:22 <K2> i have a working artifact, needs work still
23:22 <Loggers_VIII> how's the double damage gonna work?
23:22 <terrapin> sounds exciting!
23:22 <K2> i made a new damage type, AD_FUSE
23:23 <K2> in this case, fuses fire & cold
23:24 <K2> the damage is for the most part the same as how splicehack did it, although it neglected spec damage bonus
23:24 <Loggers_VIII> get his ass xdminsy!
23:25 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed Lucifer, on T:109042 (1 day, 7:28:35)
23:25 <K2> i worked it out for DFNS(AD_FUSE) works
23:25 <K2> nice xdminsy \o/
23:25 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) entered Purgatory, on T:109049 (1 day, 7:28:54)
23:25 <K2> in splicehack, frostburn only defended against cold
23:26 <K2> test bit I have going right now, it properly defends against fire and cold
23:26 <Loggers_VIII> nice
23:26 <Loggers_VIII> is it still gonna be called frostburn
23:26 <K2> no
23:26 <K2> ICYHOT
23:26 <K2> :P
23:26 <Loggers_VIII> \o/
23:27 <K2> i dunno what i'm gonna call it yet
23:27 <Loggers_VIII> loggers is cool sword
23:28 <K2> just want to get the functionality bit settled first
23:28 <K2> heh
23:28 <Loggers_VIII> it should be really good since the double damage applies to pretty much everything
23:28 <Loggers_VIII> aside from some late game stuff
23:31 <Loggers_VIII> aw you shoulda stayed and killed saint michael xdminsy
23:31 <K2> side topic: luxidream is still playing nethackathon
23:31 <K2> on the ascrun
23:31 <xdminsy> Lol I'm not sure if i can kill him :P
23:31 <Loggers_VIII> nethack ascrun or evilhack ascrun... decisions decisions
23:32 <Loggers_VIII> luxidream will prob be done in 5 minutes anyway
23:32 <K2> yup
23:32 <K2> the meth has kicked in
23:33 <Loggers_VIII> I made sure this batch was extra-pure
23:33 <terrapin> the heck is the pickaxe of shame?
23:33 <Loggers_VIII> that is a good question
23:34 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
23:35 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:2857 (1:20:30)
23:35 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor (5 times), on T:109447 (1 day, 7:39:06)
23:36 <K2> if you break a boulder in sokoban with a pick axe, it transforms it into the pick axe of shame
23:36 <K2> and it flickers
23:36 <Loggers_VIII> ah
23:36 <K2> but no one knows why hah
23:37 <Loggers_VIII> disperse is a master programmer
23:37 <K2> he added some fun stuff
23:37 <K2> some of its broken but *shrug*
23:37 <Loggers_VIII> that just makes it all the more fun :)
23:38 <K2> there's a jeweled egg that acts like a BoH
23:38 <Loggers_VIII> yeah I saw that one
23:38 <terrapin> wild
23:38 <K2> he made a bag shop that has gucci bags and stuff, but a bug made it so izchak's shop became a bag shop
23:43 <K2> terrapin you wanna see what I have so far?
23:44 <terrapin> ooh sure
23:44 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) entered the Planes, on T:109872 (1 day, 7:47:49)
23:44 <K2> https://termbin.com/0hyt - I'm using splicehack name for now, saved some time. there's the grimtooth fix in there also
23:48 <terrapin> awesome
23:48 <K2> see anything wrong there?
23:49 <terrapin> (how_resistant(FIRE_RES) > 99) && (how_resistant(COLD_RES) > 99)) ? TRUE : FALSE) is a bit redundant. i don't see any bugs off the top of my head though
23:50 <terrapin> i wonder if the "parboils"/"freezes" dialogue should check for fire/cold resistance
23:50 <K2> ok
23:50 <K2> oh i'm changing all that feedback
23:50 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:16633 (3:26:01)
23:51 <K2> i just tossed it in there so i could test quickly
23:51 <terrapin> ah cool
23:51 <K2> and i agree it should check based on resistances of target
23:51 <Loggers_VIII> I am going to bed, night nerds
23:51 <Loggers_VIII> one day I will get luxidream to play evilhack
23:51 <terrapin> 'night Loggers
23:51 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed]
23:51 <K2> gnite
23:52 <K2> Loggers he did once, astral splatted
23:52 <terrapin> oh, should there be a special case in defends?
23:53 <terrapin> currently it would only defend vs. ad_fuse attacks
23:53 <K2> probably
23:54 <K2> however...
23:54 <K2> The fire ant bites!  You're on fire!  The fire doesn't feel hot!
23:54 <K2> enlightenemtn shows
23:54 <K2>   You are 100% fire resistant.
23:54 <K2>   You are 100% cold resistant.
23:55 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a giant bat, on T:6096 (1:40:25)
23:55 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Splunge (Kni Hum Mal Cha) had a silver battle-axe entrusted to him by Manannan Mac Lir, on T:17023 (3:30:36)
23:55 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] k3ut0i (Tou Trt Fem Neu), 4494 points, T:6115, diseased by a drow zombie, while helpless
23:55 <K2> defends is for monsters right?
23:57 <terrapin> yeah i think
23:57 <terrapin> maybe not even that for normal resistances like fire & cold
23:58 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) murdered her faithful stalker, on T:110135 (1 day, 8:02:02)
23:58 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) put Death down for a little nap, on T:110136 (1 day, 8:02:06)
23:58 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Wiz Hum Fem Neu) destroyed the Pale Horse, on T:110137 (1 day, 8:02:12)