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02:43 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] lgxia (Rog Hum Mal Cha), 22171 points, T:14076, killed by a dwarf queen
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03:50 <hackemslashem> Got another that might be an evil issue: https://github.com/elunna/hackem/issues/9
03:51 <hackemslashem> Seems to be something while you are polymorphed and casting spells, says the monster targeted is already dead - but the spells appear to be non-directional. So not sure if the player is dying before being able to cast the spell or what...
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07:02 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] lgxia (Rog Hum Mal Cha), 3453 points, T:4001, killed by a wand, while moving through the air
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09:11 <K2> !ping
09:11 <Hecubus> K2: Pong! 
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09:14 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] lgxia (Rog Hum Mal Cha), 741 points, T:1995, killed by a bugbear
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10:05 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] lgxia (Rog Hum Mal Cha) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:3167
10:06 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Gia Fem Neu) had Mjollnir bestowed upon her by Odin, on T:9441
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10:25 <K2> hiya dbanethacker
10:25 <dbanethacker> GM all !  Hiya K2 !!
10:25 <K2> its very easy for non-tnnt talk to get buried in tnnt stuff in that channel
10:25 <K2> ok so
10:26 <dbanethacker> I just posted in the TNNT channel asking about why it is that in Evilhack that as a giant I couldn't wear newly forged large splint mail.
10:26 <K2> when i made large splint mail for gaint samurai, it already felt overpowered
10:26 <dbanethacker> They said only a samauri could wear it.
10:26 <K2> right
10:26 <K2> so for now its a giant samurai thing only
10:26 <dbanethacker> Oh, ok, but hey, if I can find 2 plate mails and make my own giant splint mail, perhaps i should be able to wear it?
10:27 <dbanethacker> True, I shouldn't start with it - that would be overpowering.
10:27 <K2> i'll think on it
10:27 <dbanethacker> But if I can forge it, why not?
10:27 <dbanethacker> Ok, that's fair.  Thanks for the feedback !
10:27 <K2> no, thank you
10:27 <qt> well, nobody was ever going to start with it
10:27 <K2> giant samurai do
10:27 <qt> I mean none of the giants that can't wear it
10:27 <K2> right
10:28 <qt> the decision was already "if another class wishes for it, can they wear it"
10:28 <qt> and forging is even easier than wishing
10:28 <dbanethacker> yeah, but finding 2 plate mails is pretty tough
10:28 <mobileuser> Only giant samurai have discovered the secret of how to wear giant splint mail, and they refuse to share the secret. ;-)
10:28 <K2> i promise i will give it serious consideration
10:28 <dbanethacker> LOL
10:28 <qt> it definitely doesn't make a lot of sense
10:29 <mobileuser> dbanethacker mithril giant splint mail would then be a pretty OP wish for a giant
10:29 <qt> and i can imagine it would be highly frustrating as a player to wish up or forge giant armor, and then mysteriously not be able to wear it
10:29 <dbanethacker> Evilhack is supposed to be the toughest variant of NH so I can understand.
10:29 <qt> maybe it should just be removed entirely ;)
10:29 <K2> hha
10:29 <K2> aah
10:30 <dbanethacker> Yes, I was both surprised and frustrated - and will keep at it!
10:30 <K2> djinni already out of the bottle
10:30 <K2> it'd be like removing dragonbane
10:30 <K2> i'd prob get doxxed
10:30 <qt> yeah imagine what damage people could do if they knew your name
10:30 <dbanethacker> I like the recent additions - dragonbane gloves, etc.
10:31 <amateurhour> arbitrary sizes for all armour WHEN
10:31 <dbanethacker> Wait, you guys don't know that he's .... and he lives ....  ??
10:31 <K2> dragonbane is also kinda OP but its too much fun and everyone is used to having it
10:31 <dbanethacker> I guess his secrets are safe with me.  ;-)
10:31 <K2> i make no secret of my identity :P
10:31 <mobileuser> btw as giant samurai I try to ditch the giant splint mail as soon as I have other good armor, because it's HEAVY
10:31 <amateurhour> when can we resize hats for our doggos?? when can we resize hawaiian shirts for our giants??
10:32 <K2> NEVAR
10:32 <mobileuser> mummy wrapping would be logical
10:32 <amateurhour> tfw he adds toques and doesnt let dogs wear them >:|
10:32 <dbanethacker> If we're a giant in TNNT does the t-shirt given to us from Mike Stephenson fit?  Similar issue.
10:32 <amateurhour> very true mobileuser 
10:32 <K2> PatR caved and made mummy wrapping be one size fits all
10:32 <K2> for 3.7
10:32 <mobileuser> nice!
10:33 <dbanethacker> Yeah, I agree with mummy wrapping - or maybe you need 2 or more of them for them to fit?
10:33 <dbanethacker> to fit a giant, that is...
10:33 <mobileuser> well, giant mummies already wear them...
10:33 <K2> giant mummies wear them as a loincloth
10:33 <mobileuser> haha
10:33 <amateurhour> yeah it makes sense and also makes the early game less painful for no reason if you stand on a magic trap
10:33 <dbanethacker> so there you go - only mummy wrapping dropped by them will fit other giants ?!?
10:34 <dbanethacker> ...dropped by giant mummies....
10:34 <mobileuser> that could work
10:34 <K2> in evilhack if you're invisible, if you zap yourself (or a monster) with a cursed wand of invis, it makes you (or them) visible
10:35 <mobileuser> maybe also do that for cursed invis ring?
10:35 <dbanethacker> hmm, and if you zap your cursed / of Cancellation at a cursed lamp, will it then give off light?  How far can ya go???  :-p
10:35 <K2> dbanethacker yeah that's a thing already
10:36 <dbanethacker> oh?  I thought of it but hadn't tried it - LOL
10:36 <K2> :)
10:36 <K2> mobileuser, devteam made invis ring sometimes cursed on purpose
10:36 <K2> not everyone wants to be invis
10:36 <mobileuser> yeah that's the drawback of that idea
10:37 <dbanethacker> I was surprised that as a giant, since I couldn't wear armor, that just with speed boots, elven helm and gloves I could get to -20 AC.
10:37 <dbanethacker> Granted, only the helm wasn't dragonhide.  But I was impressed !
10:37 <K2> giants have an inate AC of 6 when naked
10:37 <K2> so they already have a bit of an ac bonus
10:37 <dbanethacker> Yeah, and I had donated a lot to my local priest.
10:37 <K2> nice
10:38 <mobileuser> try tortle for even more innate AC!
10:38 <K2> tortle \o/
10:38 <K2> the race made for amateurhour who never plays it
10:38 <dbanethacker> I wasn't sure - if I donated to a priest of a different alignment, would it cancel the benefit/bonus I received from the earlier priest?  Food for thought....
10:38 <dbanethacker> Hmmm, I don't recall tortles leaving a shell?
10:38 <K2> they dont
10:39 <mobileuser> nice source for tridents though
10:39 <dbanethacker> Oh, you mean starting as a tortle.  Nice!
10:39 <K2> https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/EvilHack#New_player_races <--- scroll down to tortle section
10:40 <K2> ah that section needs a minor update
10:40 <K2> cant be vorpaled while in shell either
10:43 <dbanethacker> Wow, you have been busy!
10:44 <dbanethacker> QQ - what does "fixed" armor mean?
10:45 <K2> means its been rustproofed/fireproofed/etc
10:45 <K2> brb work calling
10:45 <dbanethacker> Hmmm, I thought dragon mail started as erode-proof?
10:46 <dbanethacker> Yes, it was changed to a cape instead of armor itself.
10:46 <dbanethacker> ... and I like that you can #forge it into another armor - that's neat!
10:48 <mobileuser> dragonhide armor is automatically erodeproof (like mithril and silver)
10:49 <dbanethacker> sure, but wishing for dragon scale mail - I guess that isn't?
10:49 <mobileuser> oh you can't wish for that anymore
10:49 <mobileuser> dragon scales
10:50 <amateurhour> naive question but why can't we fooproof dragonhide etc? it does have a difference with the destroy armour spell right?
10:50 <dbanethacker> Right - it comes as what you wear as a cape instead of as armor.
10:50 <hackemslashem> oh hell ya
10:50 <mobileuser> yeah wear scales as a cloak
10:51 <hackemslashem> Should I let giants wear robes?  Feels natural to me!
10:51 <mobileuser> you can merge it into body armor with an enchant armor scroll
10:51 <dbanethacker> but to your point, maybe we should be able to create dragonhide armor with 2 things of dragon scales?  (wink, wink?)
10:51 <dbanethacker> and thus it'd be foo-proof?
10:52 <mobileuser> amateurhour spell casters can deteriorate any armor, foo-proof or not
10:53 <amateurhour> doesn't something being fooproofed give it one layer of protection or whatever?
10:53 <amateurhour> like first cast removes the fooproofing or something
10:53 <amateurhour> I should check the source to check, maybe remembering wrong
10:53 <mobileuser> well there seem to be 2 types of degrading by spellcasters
10:54 <mobileuser> remove foo-proofing or deteriorate
10:55 <mobileuser> so in that respect dragonhide is already better
10:56 <amateurhour> https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/blob/master/src/mcastu.c#L557
10:56 <krm26> isn't dragonhide worse? first deteriorate -> level 1 deterioration. with fooproof whatever, first deteriate -> unfooproof, 2nd -> level 1 deterioration
10:56 <amateurhour> yeah that's what I'm saying krm26
10:56 <amateurhour> that's why I wonder why we're not allowed to fooproof them
10:56 <amateurhour> because it does make a difference
10:57 <krm26> that's the price we pay for weight/ac i guess :-)
10:57 <mobileuser> yeah not sure how it works
10:57 <krm26> same with mithril, etc
10:57 <mobileuser> just carry enough enchant weapon and enchant armor scrolls :-)
10:57 <dbanethacker> Ok, I'm off on my bike to the farmer's market.  Good chat, all!
10:57 <hackemslashem> You have the spellbooks too 
10:58 <mobileuser> see you dbanethacker!
10:58 <mobileuser> hackemslashem the spellbook sucks if you can't cast at skilled
10:59 <hackemslashem> Aw 
10:59 <hackemslashem> Need that special staff of matter or enchantment right?
11:00 <mobileuser> you need skilled if you want to choose something from inventory
11:00 <hackemslashem> What was the thing with giants and slow digestion?  I remember someone asking to fix that 
11:00 <mobileuser> as you would with the scroll
11:01 <krm26> giants and tortles chow through food like nobody's business
11:01 <krm26> giants cuz of agg, tortles cuz of speed
11:01 <krm26> or did giant agg food consumption get fixed?
11:01 <mobileuser> I think tortle is now as "fast" as giant
11:02 <krm26> that speed was my biggest enemy working to ascend a tortle
11:02 <krm26> was ROUGH
11:03 <hackemslashem> Oh they have the 10 speed instead of 12? 
11:04 <hackemslashem> Was tortle slower than 10??
11:05 <mobileuser> they used to be slower
11:05 <hackemslashem> Slower than an undead slayer, ye gods!
11:11 <krm26> what's the drown-count for being engulfed again? 3 rounds?
11:12 <krm26> ok, 5 rounds for xnethack, 3 for grunthack, 4 for evilhack
11:16 <aosdict> xnethack doesn't drown you if you're engulfed
11:16 <aosdict> I tried that and found it was way too easy to just die due to paralysis
11:36 <krm26> ...as designed? :-)
11:37 <krm26> honestly i feel like evilhack should choke you when you are engulfed by other normal engulfers too -- not a lot of free air in a dragon's belly
11:37 <K2> being digested is enough
11:37 <krm26> and should not be able to cast spells with somatic components when engulfed by material beings unless you have free movement
11:38 <amateurhour> if u ever need evidence that evilhack's players are masochists just remember the time krm26 expressed a desire to be choked out by a dragon
11:38 <krm26> oh come on we've all had that dream
11:38 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Frozty (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) killed the Abominable Snowman, on T:28261
11:39 <krm26> an interesting little mechanics wrinkle to make the avalanche of spellbooks more interesting: each spellbook randomly teaches you one of 4 ways to cast the spell: verbal & somatic, just verbal, just somatic, at will
11:39 <krm26> certain conditions (Choking) prevent verbal casting, certain conditions (being held) prevent somatic casting
11:40 <krm26> can read additional spellbooks of X to learn additional, more freeing casting methods
11:42 <amateurhour> if you consider that a real idea you should use the magic initialism so it ends up on the ideas archive
11:42 <krm26> YAKRMI
11:42 <amateurhour> the proper one without KRM in it
11:42 <krm26> i let other people make that decision :-)
11:43 <krm26> i do think spellbooks are an unsophisticated mechanic that could be further explored to add additional texture to casting. thank you, that was my ted talk
11:52 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Inf Dem Fem Una) killed the Oracle, on T:58011
11:54 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Inf Dem Fem Una) had Frost Brand bestowed upon her by Moloch, on T:58219
11:57 <aosdict> YANI but in my opinion it's a smop
11:57 <aosdict> actually no
11:57 <aosdict> implementation wise not that difficult, but needlessly complicated for players to try and manage
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12:37 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Frozty (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) murdered his faithful owlbear, on T:28545
12:38 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Frozty (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) defeated Kathryn the Ice Queen, on T:28545
13:33 <K2> i agree with aosdict. all the rules and quirks to casting spells in pencil/paper d&d works, I think its overkill for a game like nethack
13:56 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Gia Fem Neu), 22511 points, T:10645, killed by imitating a meat popsicle
14:01 <Umbire> legitimately can't imagine what casting was like between 1.3d and Wizard Patch
14:01 <Umbire> (not snark, I legitimately can't picture it and don't play 1.3d often enough)
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14:09 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Nightsorrow (Sam Hum Mal Law) used a helm to turn chaotic, on T:727
14:09 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Sam Gia Mal Law) killed the Goblin King, on T:814
14:11 <amateurhour> you should try it in 1.3d Umbire it's hilarious
14:11 <Umbire> I already know you have to actually transcribe the shit before casting
14:11 <amateurhour> if you try read a spellbook while blind it deletes your spellbook with a snarky comment in the source
14:11 <Umbire> and iirc you get interrupted and you just suck shit
14:11 <Umbire> amateurhour: see this is why I don't play 1.3d
14:12 <amateurhour> but it's really fun and short
14:12 <amateurhour> pw costs are super low and some spells are turbobusted
14:13 <amateurhour> https://github.com/bhaak/NetHack-1.3d/blob/master/spell.c#L22 >:)
14:13 <amateurhour> EPI: evilhack adds that as a nasty throwback
14:16 <K2> hah
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14:18 <Umbire> I've seen the geno spell at work
14:19 <amateurhour> that spell is the most expensive spell
14:19 <amateurhour> costs a whole 7 pw
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14:51 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] mareika (Val Dwa Fem Neu), 591 points, T:2387, killed by a rabid rat
15:13 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] mareika (Val Dwa Fem Neu), 809 points, T:1912, killed by a giant mosquito, while frozen by a monster's gaze
15:18 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Nightsorrow (Sam Hum Mal Law), 3327 points, T:4313, zombified by a gnome zombie
15:26 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] mareika (Val Dwa Fem Neu), 617 points, T:1790, killed by a wererat
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15:41 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Nightsorrow (Sam Hum Mal Law), 1612 points, T:1816, killed by a dwarf queen
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16:22 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Nightsorrow (Sam Hum Mal Law) performed his first genocide (disenchanters), on T:4779
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16:30 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Nightsorrow (Sam Hum Mal Law) killed the Goblin King, on T:5630
16:31 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Nightsorrow (Sam Hum Mal Law) genocided mind flayers, on T:5681
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17:02 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] pinjuf (Hea Dwa Mal Neu), 0 points, T:18, killed by an air elemental of Hermes
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18:41 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Blixie (Wiz Hob Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:2669
18:52 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Blixie (Wiz Hob Fem Neu), 4751 points, T:3167, killed by a crossbow bolt
19:18 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Blixie (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 846 points, T:1519, killed by the Goblin King
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19:51 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Blixie (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 187 points, T:667, killed by a falling rock
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20:17 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] lgxia (Rog Hum Mal Cha), 2569 points, T:5337, killed by a water moccasin
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20:47 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] lgxia (Rog Hum Mal Cha) had a mithril dwarvish spear entrusted to him by Kos, on T:2403
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21:10 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Sam Gia Mal Law), 9046 points, T:5829, killed by a Woodland-elf
21:11 <dbanethacker> 1 step from the exit.....
21:58 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] lgxia (Rog Hum Mal Cha) changed form for the first time by mimicking a pile of gold, on T:3821
21:59 <K2> :/
22:06 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] lgxia (Rog Hum Mal Cha) had a dagger entrusted to him by Kos, on T:4769
22:29 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] lgxia (Rog Hum Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:6843