01:03 [hdf-us] [evil] Storm (Mon Trt Fem Neu) had a staff of holiness entrusted to her by Chih Sung-tzu, on T:36734 01:04 [hdf-us] [evil] Storm (Mon Trt Fem Neu) destroyed the invisible basilikos' ghost, the former Ninja, on T:36929 02:18 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 02:28 oof, read the backscroll, it seems Rodney with MR on the plane of water is deadly if you can't one-shot him and he steals the amulet :-( 02:29 Problem is the steeds far more than anything 02:29 I saw in the backscroll, and I did some thinking 02:30 even without the steeds this is potentially deadly 02:30 because he can just teleport away and heal all the time 02:31 and you can't get to him 02:32 Also, I didn't know that advanced cone of cold doesn't work on plane of water? 02:33 That's a wizard's main kill-MR-rodney-quickly weapon 02:42 hmm he had vorpal blade 02:42 I wonder if I would have been desperate enough to try that 03:23 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 03:36 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 03:37 at +0 enchantment, though? 03:37 Rod had -30 AC 03:37 plus uncertain what skill level sword was at 03:38 proabably a bunch of missing 03:38 I don't know if it was the crowning gift... 03:38 then it would just be basic, at best 03:38 and difficult to write some enchant weapon scrolls when Rodney has a fire weapon 03:39 yeah, he said he blasted his paralysis 03:39 and kept boiling his full heals 03:39 so frustrating 03:39 yeah, so close and probably would have secured the tortle wizard win 03:40 with nude conduct no less 03:42 which can be difficult in plain old vanilla 03:48 -30AC omg 03:48 yeah impossible to hit then 03:49 my expert long sword samurai sometimes had trouble -24AC NPCs 03:50 * hitting 03:50 and yet monster absolutely whack me with my -55 03:50 i tell ya it's not fair man, it's-just-not-faaaaaiiiirr! 03:52 heh 04:06 [hdf-eu] [evil] Storm (Inf Ith Fem Una), 424 points, T:1216, killed by a bugbear 04:07 -!- screamingskull has quit [Quit: Client closed] 04:21 [hdf-eu] [evil] davez (Val Dwa Fem Neu), 2794 points, T:4625, killed by a piranha 04:41 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Inf Gia Fem Una) killed the Goblin King, on T:1237 04:41 [hdf-eu] [evil] davez (Val Dwa Fem Neu), 3094 points, T:2819, zombified by a human zombie 04:55 -!- amateurhour has joined #evilhack 05:45 -!- Umbire has quit [Quit: Umbire zaps a wand of digging!] 05:48 [hdf-eu] [evil] davez (Val Dwa Fem Neu), 1237 points, T:2125, killed by a lesser nightmare, while praying 05:50 -!- Umbire has joined #evilhack 06:15 [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Con Ith Fem Cha), 409 points, T:1340, killed by a rock gnome 06:21 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Bar Trt Fem Neu) had Cleaver bestowed upon her by Crom, on T:6048 06:41 I actually did try Vorpal some, when I was desperate, with predictable results 06:41 wizard vs MR rodney on water is difficult, but the real problem area was the triple trouble 06:53 Defeated by a bug :-( 06:54 You really can't cast cone of cold on the plane of air? 06:54 [hdf-eu] [evil] davez (Val Dwa Fem Neu) destroyed davez the dwarf zombie, and former Fighter, on T:3691 06:58 [hdf-eu] [evil] davez (Val Dwa Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:4010 07:01 the wizard can be too hard already without there being a bajillion of them at once 07:02 why is their ac crazy good sometimes? 07:02 casting protection? 07:03 good base AC, highly enchanted armor, protection 07:03 a cancel wand could at least do something about their armor enchantment 07:03 feels like that sort of ac would be fine for a one-time fight (elder priest or something) rather than the wizard :| 07:04 It was a weird game, I found one teleport wand and zero cancel wands the whole game 07:04 oof 07:04 does monster MR affect cancelling armour? 07:04 Not that canceling would have done much 07:04 Except burn turns 07:05 amateurhour it would be strange if it did 07:05 it seems like the -40ac mr rodney is pretty common these days 07:06 I feel like that's too much, but I'm just a complainer on the sidelines and not likely to even get that far 07:06 i feel like i've got about a 1 in 3 chance to be rodney-boned in a way i can't overcome, but i'm a poor excuse for an ascender compared to some 07:07 if krm's water plane or VaderFLAG's water plane happened to me I'd just quit honestly 07:07 :P 07:07 instant sadness 07:07 i still can't believe i not only got out of that water plane but ascended after losing all my artifacts 07:07 Most classes have a way to deal with it, if there were only 2 of them, even on water, I woulda dealt with it 07:07 I killed 2-4 rodneys in water, but when they can triple(+??) up... 07:08 yeah that's gotta be a bug 07:08 it is bad enough to have constant chaining so eternally two wizards 07:08 PROGRAM IN DISORDER TOO MANY RODNEYS 07:08 did that happen? i was asleep for the backscroll 07:08 did you squeak out an ascension? 07:08 I did get a program in disorder, yes. I also had too many rodneys, but I did not receive that message 07:09 No I died 07:09 https://www.hardfought.org/irclog.evil/%23evilhack-2022-04-21.log 07:09 awww 07:09 read and weep 07:09 sorry 07:10 i have low-level trauma...loadstone, cursed shield of reflection, and invisible as tortle barbarian trying to swing cleaver 07:10 don't ask 07:10 maybe the best evilhack wizard strategy is never kill them 07:10 slime them and avoid them 07:10 running away works well if you can do it without losing the amulet 07:10 I die all the time to my own stupidity, but this feels like that time my barbarian giant was drowned by a kraken who got two moves in a row somehow. I don't know what happened or why and it sucks! 07:11 that's kinda annoying to set up and might not work if they have -40ac 07:11 sliming I mean 07:11 but once they're slimed it's all good 07:11 VaderFLAG You really can't cast cone of cold on the plane of air? 07:11 improved cone of cold 07:11 Oh, you can as a ray 07:11 I misspoke earlier 07:11 But I had plenty of ray spells 07:11 but why not advanced? 07:12 It's just... not allowed 07:12 uh plane of water I emant 07:12 meant 07:12 "You have to wait for the sun to come out" is the message 07:12 is that an evilhack thing I wonder 07:12 it's vanilla 07:12 It's old and vanilla and strange 07:12 the wiki doesn't mention it? 07:12 But of course rodney can do it 07:12 it does 07:12 ah thx, my dumb then 07:13 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Plane_of_Water 07:13 So a lot of that time he'd be 2-3 tiles away from me, not orthogonal, nuking me with AOE effects where I coudln't hit him back 07:13 I wonder if it mentions it on the fireball/etc pages 07:13 if not it should do 07:13 it doesn't I think 07:13 that's where I tried to find it 07:14 ahh that'd be a good place for it to be mentioned 07:14 [hdf-eu] [evil] davez (Val Dwa Fem Neu) destroyed the invisible davez's ghost, the former Thaumaturge, on T:5089 07:15 btw if K2 does indeed make rodney unable to ride steeds, I apologize to everyone for the rodney buff, since him jumping on dragons slows him down a bit (or should, if it works the way it does for the player) 07:16 kind of an insignificant buff compared to -40ac and MR and reflection spell and other spells rly 07:17 it's true 07:18 can't remember if K2 nerfed kicking so it doesn't bypass ac anymore, but if not you could maybe use kicking boots 07:19 The image of a wizard vs wizard fight in the plane of water being resolved by a bunch of kicks to the face is a pretty great one 07:23 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Bar Trt Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:8117 07:56 amateurhour I didnt. waiting for devteam to make their own solution 07:56 (kicking and AC checks) 07:58 I hope they leave it in because there's no reason to ever kick otherwise :P 07:59 the 'rodney wont ride monsters' bit is live already 08:00 [hdf-eu] [evil] davez (Val Dwa Fem Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:8373 08:00 and i'm not sure why AoE spells arent allowed on plane of water 08:01 not just cold of cold/fireball, it affects acid blast and poison blast too 08:01 you can only cast the ray version of those 08:01 yeah and targetted spell 08:01 i assume they did it because it obeys different line of sight rules than normal maps 08:01 can't cast targetted spells underwater either 08:01 and they didn't want to write new code just for the plane of water 08:02 easy enough to test, I see where AoE is suppressed 08:03 evilhack spell.c line 1430 08:08 tests so far seem fine... 08:08 you already cant freeze or boil away water in the plane of water 08:10 i'm not seeing why these spells are suppressed 08:10 maybe there's something in the git history 08:12 not seeing anything 08:12 I think it predates 343 08:12 yeah 08:13 bhaak, you have any idea why AoE spells arent allowed to function on the plane of water? 08:16 argh level 7 changeling alhoon 08:16 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:21 looks like this is from 3.3.0 08:23 but in vanilla only cone of cold and fireball is suppressed because they only exist there 08:23 right 08:26 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Bar Trt Fem Neu) became literate by reading a book, on T:13862 08:36 I love that the message when you try to do it is "You had better wait for the sun to come out." <- does this imply the existence of an indoor sun in the dungeons of doom? 08:37 you're not in the dungeon anymore. it's on the planes 08:39 yeah i'm not seeing any detremental effects at all to casting AoE spells on plane of water 08:39 even cast at edge of map, its fine 08:39 am I missing something? 08:40 [hdf-us] [evil] lgxia (Arc Hum Mal Law) murdered his faithful housecat, on T:65330 08:41 [hdf-us] [evil] lgxia (Arc Hum Mal Law) polymorphed his first object, on T:65364 08:48 [hdf-us] [evil] arnibald (Inf Gia Mal Una) had Secespita bestowed upon him by Moloch, on T:6519 08:56 yolo add it and see if anything breaks in prod 08:57 this is the way 08:58 * K2 nods 08:58 the beta never ends 09:02 [hdf-us] [evil] arnibald (Inf Gia Mal Una), 17728 points, T:7081, killed by a shocking sphere's explosion 09:03 [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/compare/6e76f3783f8c...da99e9ba3906 09:03 [EvilHack] k21971 da99e9b - Remove restriction of casting targeted/area of effect spells on the plane of water. 09:04 ooh nice 09:04 ^ that right there could have allowed VaderFLAG a chance 09:04 acid bath time 09:04 i assume there is a huge water/acid chain reaction that destroys the plane 09:04 cold bath even more effective 09:04 wizard is extra vulnarable to cold 09:05 also, dont discount the spell 'lightning' - its not AoE, but a lot of water based creatures/water elementals are vulnerable to it 09:06 mobileuser, rodney isnt extra vuln to cold, he just isnt immune to it 09:06 well he is fire resistant 09:06 poison and fire, that's all he resists 09:06 so he gets an extra penalty 09:06 acid blast would fuck him up 09:07 he is fire resistant, so he gets an extra penalty against cold 09:07 right 09:07 what do healers do against rodney? 09:07 just not as big as actually being vulnerable to cold 09:07 I guess the idea is that cone of cold and the fireball should do something on the plane of waters 09:07 amateurhour hope 09:07 level drain rodney with the Staff 09:07 that's huge actually 09:08 which he will steal 09:08 relies on hitting him right? 09:08 HUGE steal chance 09:08 -40 ac and takes your weapon lol 09:08 I used Magicbane as healer against him 09:08 does it cancel him? 09:08 he doesnt always have that low ac 09:08 it depends what material his hat and robe spawn with 09:09 yeah but they respawn and reroll 09:09 yup 09:09 I survived double trouble on the plane of air, guess I was a bit lucky 09:09 so it'll probably happen 09:09 9 asc as healer in evilhack 09:09 correction, 8 09:10 3 by mobileuser :P 09:10 you can't count the ascs before the rodney buff 09:10 I CAN 09:10 lol 09:10 yeah well you gotta remember the active players are all superhuman 09:10 hahaha 09:10 healer drain strategy is a BAD strategy tho, any slow strategy is super-risky and last resort 09:10 gotta execute with extreme prejudice 09:10 its worked for me in the past 09:10 in the past pre-buff? 09:11 yes 09:11 i think my healer, post-buff, mjollnird him as rapidly as possible and didn't encounter a -73ac 09:11 lol 09:11 stop making up ac values 09:11 ah mjollnir 09:11 good choice 09:11 i said *didn't* encounter a -73ac 09:11 does their ac go up as their level increases? 09:11 the -68ac is so much easier 09:12 lol krm26 09:12 having the hand of vecna would be a good thing vs rodney 09:12 fyi 09:12 good job you can get the hand with 100% certainty then :))) 09:12 i have yet to tortle my way to vecna 09:12 looking forward to it 09:12 you got this 09:12 could you kill him with the eye of vecna? 09:12 you'll finally get something 09:13 tortle is tough for me, without the fun of gear i get bored and lazy and splat myself unnecessarily 09:13 mobileuser maybe? 09:13 lemme see 09:13 it can't because he might have MR 09:13 and if he didn't have MR then you coulda wand of death'd anyway 09:13 i may have to take a break and play the best race for a bit when i die this time 09:13 C E N T A U R 09:14 but krm26 tortles can get dragonbane? isn't that what you play for? 09:14 yes dragonbane is my castle-zone-goal 09:14 but without shiny gear to focus on through sokoban i get lax 09:14 it can definitely hurt him 09:15 the hand has the same power as the eye when you #invoke 09:15 it's a percentage of hp though if they have MR though right? 09:15 so you'd still have to manage to land a hit anyway 09:16 by that point you got double trouble with a clone that has same ac 09:16 there is no to-hit roll for that 09:16 if he's line of sight, he's affected 09:16 I mean after reducing their hp, you'd still have to hit them to finish them off 09:16 if he isnt already dead, yes :) 09:16 but it's a percentage of their hp that's less than 100% if they have MR right? 09:17 one sec 09:18 k2 what was the thing you pinged me about last night? there were 3 wizards and you thought it was because he was riding? 09:18 amateurhour see artifact.c starting at line 2922 09:18 infinite wizards qt 09:18 yeah so they will have 1/3rd their maxhp 09:19 qt yeah it was weird. I was pinging you, was asking about how mon_can_ride() was done in mondata.h but i'm good on that now 09:19 1/3rd current hp* 09:19 so for now, is_covetous() isnt allowed to ride anything 09:19 what was happening? riding was causing some kind of problem? 09:20 rodney was riding the 'tail of a shimmering dragon' 09:20 which somehow set the stage for more than 2 rodney's to be present 09:20 is what I suspect 09:20 https://www.hardfought.org/irclog.evil/%23evilhack-2022-04-21.log 09:20 qt start from about 19:09 there for a wild ride 09:21 and vaderflag's panic - https://www.hardfought.org/xlogfiles/evilhack/paniclog 09:21 impossible* 09:21 P A N I C 09:21 :P 09:22 yes you are right 09:22 there were 3 wizards all visible on the map at once? 09:22 f you panic when u see an impossible in the log then it is a panic too i suppose 09:22 if* lol didnt mean to swear at you there 09:22 lol 09:23 VaderFLAG can probably describe it better, I guess the ttyrec is probably worth watching, I haven't seen it 09:24 lol amateurhour 09:24 'f you panic' 09:24 yeah he could use farlook and ID 3 rodneys 09:32 sounds like a comedy show, the 3 rodneys 09:32 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV1IP4N9ajg 09:33 "The 3 Rodneys" is my band name 09:33 i was with 3 rodneys last night, and wooo boy was it awesome 09:33 No, it should be Rodney and the Rodneys 09:34 replace 'Helens' with 'Rodneys' - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCxbQADotrw 09:34 I don't know for sure riding had anything to do with it, it could have been a product of water being overcrowded or something else I haven't thought of 09:34 But multiple times there were 3 rodneys visible 09:34 riding different things 09:34 fucking my shit up 09:35 i can't believe how lucky i was that in the decade i was forced to consume insipid childrens cartoons because of my daughter there was not one but TWO really good cartoons that i could actually enjoy myself 09:35 peep and the big wide world 09:36 \o/ 09:36 daniel tiger can suck it 09:37 (steven universe + adventure time for me) 09:38 caillou... omg 09:39 I wanted to throat punch that character every time it came on 09:39 [hdf-us] [evil] arnibald (Inf Gia Mal Una), 1112 points, T:2185, killed by the Goblin King 09:40 didnt let mini-me watch that show 09:43 damn it VaderFLAG I wish you farlooked all the purple @s on the map more often lol 09:43 i have no idea whether these are elven kings or the multiple wizards thing has started already 09:43 rodney is bright magenta 09:43 is rodney supposed to be a different color than an elvenking? 09:43 yes 09:43 bright magenta 09:44 oh maybe that's just something I was confused about from back when i only had 8 working colors 09:44 hahah 09:44 why does it say "Hell VaderFlag, thea neutral tortle wizard" 09:44 thea? 09:45 s/Hell/Hello/ 09:45 really? 09:45 weird 09:45 yeah 09:47 Yeah I only farlooked at the elven king the one time to confirm it for K2 - I can tell the color difference pretty easily 09:48 Also I suspect I was slow to realize there were 3, given that they were popping in and out on their own schedules 09:51 I wonder if the ttyrec only is showing 8 colors for me 09:51 because it used the ;1 method of printing bright colors or something 09:52 the wizard looks exactly the same color as a olog-hai to me in the ttyrec 09:54 there was an elven king in there at some point though VaderFLAG? 09:54 Yes 09:54 After K2 starts watching near the end I farlooked it a few times 09:55 I don't know when the elf first showed up tho 09:59 yeah that was the problem 09:59 i guess on vaderflag's terminal it's still using the bold=bright thing, so it's only 8 colors for me in kitty 10:00 i swtiched to another terminal for it and i can see the difference now 10:02 [hdf-us] [evil] arnibald (Inf Gia Fem Una) killed the Goblin King, on T:1941 10:03 man tortles have it REALLY hard getting over the late-early game mr/reflection hump 10:04 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Bar Trt Fem Neu) had a cornuthaum entrusted to her by Crom, on T:18417 10:04 k2: i'm really tired of getting stealth-cursed items from the gods. a cornuthaum for a non-wizard? come ON 10:05 WEAR IT 10:06 wear it! the gods want to see you using it 10:06 the only fing gear i have is an amulet of esp, so i can put it on, lose a charisma, and have my amulet blocked 10:06 isnt even +5 what a rip 10:07 every bit as good as giving my tortle a suit of cloth armor 10:08 krm26 I feel that you have whined enough. I will do a thing so this doesnt happen in the future 10:08 that is an excellent april fools joke 10:09 i'm not joking 10:09 i'm for reals 10:09 waaait wut 10:09 yeah 10:09 krm26: I would like to extend a formal invitation to join Team Whinge, we need successful complainants like you 10:10 to restore the proper amount of rejection, you know what would be cool? when gifted from your god a cornuthaum treated everyone as if they were a wizard (no penalties) 10:11 most classes would still hate it so it would be evil but it wouldn't be EVIL 10:11 there's definitely something weird with the wizard thing but I doubt it is related to riding 10:11 what happens to the wizard clones if the level is full? 10:11 over the course of the fight some squares seem to have long worm tails in them, sometimes multiple at once... I'm guessing that is related somehow 10:12 amateurhour: if it can't place the monster it'll just fail to do anything 10:12 all double trouble does is basically "make a wizard. if it succeeds, great, disguise him. if not, oh well." 10:12 so that's why I don't see how riding could be involved, it just calls makemon 10:15 what if the wizard rode a shapeshifter that turned into a gremlin and got cloned 10:15 I hope that's real that'd be so messy 10:15 i wonder if it might be the dmonsfree error, something like: one of the wizards got 'mondead' called on him twice in a row (like we've seen with other dmonsfree errors). that would decrement context.no_of_wizards twice, bringing it to 0, which would allow double trouble to be cast twice and create 3 wizards 10:16 amateurhour: lol I think k2 disallowed riding shapeshifters by fiat but i added something that should make the rider fall off if a shapeshifter being ridden turns into a non-rideable monster 10:16 not really used. well, maybe it could be with some scenario involving wand of polymorph 10:17 oof 10:17 the mondead bit 10:17 brb 10:17 that makes sense qt 10:18 idk what would happen if the steed was cloned anyway but since riding is basically just "here's a pointer to my steed" hopefully it wouldn't cause any problems? idk 10:19 since the pointer wouldn't change even if you clone the monster. i guess it could cause some sort of unusual behavior potentially if the rider_id field is copied over to the clone 10:20 more what happens if questions, but when bubbles collide and there's not enough space for monsters but the level is already full 10:20 what happens to the spare monsters? 10:21 the bubbles I think don't shrink and grow but they can overlap or something? 10:21 yeah good call, idk how that works 10:22 check out these weird long worm tails https://0x0.st/oTBQ.png 10:22 funky~~ 10:23 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 10:23 I farlook those a bunch later, those are shimmering dragon tails, being ridden 10:24 then the next turn, the bubbles move and the two tails become 'tame coatl, being ridden' and 'tame shimmering dragon, being ridden' 10:24 (one of the older rodneys was riding it) 10:24 also a coatl was being ridden by an older rodney 10:26 very weird 10:26 maybe it is riding-related 10:26 I killed the coatl one at some point. Or at least the coatl died. Shimmering rodney lasted the entire time 10:27 easy fix for it is remove MR from rodney :)) then it can never trigger bcuz people will zap death asap 10:30 [hdf-us] [evil] arnibald (Inf Gia Fem Una), 3841 points, T:2980, killed by a bone crossbow bolt 10:30 yeah 10:30 i think that's the most direct solution 10:39 [hdf-us] [evil] lgxia (Arc Hum Mal Law) killed the Abominable Snowman, on T:71406 10:58 -!- qt has quit [Quit: brb] 11:02 also a pro of that solution is hothraxxa would play again 11:02 -!- qt has joined #evilhack 11:03 make the wizard of yendor a pushover again? not happening 11:03 it wouldn't be a pushover, you'd miss your zap they'd cast reflection, and badabingbadaboom ur dead 11:14 rodney buff has been in since version 0.7.0, before it was released for public play 11:15 there have been 59 ascensions since then 11:15 i'm not reverting rodney 11:16 you dont play it anyways amateurhour, no matter what I add or change :) 11:19 wow, vaderflag, krm26, and mobileuser have ascended 20 times each since 0.7.0? 11:19 jk i'm sure there are at least 7-8 different people who have ascended 11:19 there are :) 11:20 my ascension rate in evilhack is le garbage 11:20 i do see one name that is conspicuously absent K2 11:23 VaderFLAG could you have swam into the water so the wizard couldn't get you? since you were a turtle? 11:23 :( 11:24 more time I dev, less time i play 11:24 curse of the game dev 11:34 -!- qt has quit [Quit: brb] 11:34 floods of peaceful monsters in sokoban are the WORST 11:36 -!- qt has joined #evilhack 11:45 oh damn, aleax gonna kill me dead with sunsword 11:48 nooo krm26 dont die 11:48 so they are immune to frost and shock, all i had in wand form -- but i had a -1 shield of reflection, and he had a wand of fire, so he killed himself 11:48 man my tortles have been such garbagefests, i can't believe this guy is limping along 11:49 wish i had at least a camera or something 11:49 and now you have sunsword 11:49 that's right, i need to retreat and skill up 11:50 [hdf-us] [evil] arnibald (Inf Gia Mal Una) killed the Goblin King, on T:819 11:51 oooh sub 1000 turn kill 11:56 argh, feel so bad...was giving this guy an old generator i rebuilt that i don't need any more, and as i helped him load it into his pickup i was going on about how i rebuilt the carburetor and blah blah blah, and he started pulling out some money for me -- i was like, no, i'm just trying to brag about how i'm still slightly mechanically competent, i'm not trying to guilt you into paying me :-/ 11:58 did you take his money? 11:58 no 11:59 its weird, some ppl will get offended if you dont 11:59 he was doing me a favor, getting it out of my garage and actually putting it to use 11:59 ^ THAT 11:59 I have a stationary bike if you want it 11:59 please... take it 11:59 now don't you need that for your physical therapy! 12:00