00:00 yeah... well that's how it goes 00:00 yes, the specter will swing his unicorn horn at stuff sometimes 00:00 gotta give him a good weapon 00:00 someone needs to splat back at their stash like how i was on DL4 or something... 00:00 THAT would be awesome 00:00 can it equip better stuff? Or is it one of those pets that likes dumb tools for weapons? 00:00 I have cleaver, keolewa, lifestealer, magicbane, ogresmasher... 00:00 both eyes and dragonbane. 3 wishes. 2 markers sepeed boots etc 00:01 thing is when it's shallow like that it's not likely to leave bones 00:01 3.2 wishes! 00:01 you think magicbane would be fun for him? 00:01 go around stunning crap? 00:01 that graz't splat i knew i was lining it up for someone if i died so i made sure to bring the titans and their gear 00:01 specter should be chaotic right, so i can give hime lifestealer 00:02 I found some ascension bones once. Someone was on the way back up and died at their stash by choking. Epic haul. 00:02 oh wow 00:02 enjoy this shit. it's gotta be getting nerfed 00:03 you don't use eota? for branchporting/pw? 00:03 in vanilla that's my first wish. always 00:04 evil you can't really do that... 00:04 but in vanilla i wish for it for MR 00:04 can't fight neferet with no mr so it doesn't work that way... last couple times i've rolled the dice though and she hasn't showed up 00:04 damn, rebatela drops lifestealer -- guess spectres are lawful, who knew 00:04 (like that game) 00:05 maybe it goes by their actual alignment? i was neu 00:09 i can't believe i had 4 wishes and didn't realize it 00:09 i thought i had 1 00:09 F 00:09 you get so used to not wishing in eh though... 00:25 -!- qt has quit [Quit: bye] 00:44 can't you just loot the spectre for the wand ? 00:44 i'm a helicopter parent when it comes to my pets.... 00:44 always peaking in their bags of holding 00:45 checking out what they're wearing etc. 01:20 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Ran Gno Fem Cha) had an ornamental cope entrusted to her by Mars, on T:18421 01:46 spectres are not strong. so no two-handed weapons for them 01:56 (except for missile launchers, I guess) 02:04 !tell qt thanks for the patch, I'll incorporate it 02:04 I'm on it, K2. 02:40 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Ran Gno Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:20629 02:45 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Ran Gno Fem Cha), 51993 points, T:21195, killed by a leocrotta 02:51 -!- spicyCebolla has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:05 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Ran Gno Fem Cha), 142 points, T:464, killed by a goblin 03:43 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Ran Gno Fem Cha) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:3250 03:56 that was weird. Suddenly a bunch of inventory became cursed while fighting a zombie. 03:58 like mysterious force, but in the main dungeon and on turn 5000 03:59 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Ran Gno Fem Cha), 3831 points, T:6038, killed by an ogre 04:16 [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Wiz Gno Fem Cha), 29548 points, T:12078, killed by an invisible stalker, while reading a book 04:24 "This water's no good!" <--- your inventory is randomly cursed 04:25 ^ bouquet 04:43 [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Wiz Gno Fem Cha), 1214 points, T:2422, killed by a dingo 04:44 at around T:5330, in https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/b/bouquet/evilhack/ttyrec/2022-01-11.03:05:30.ttyrec.gz ... 04:44 bouquet fountain-quaffs, and gets curse inventory result. but inventory window is not updated to reflect this! 04:45 not until around T:5360, when bouquet fires a crossbow bolt (at a zombie), does the inventory display get updated 04:47 K2, ^ this is a bug 04:51 a curses bug (pun intended) 05:06 -!- tinklebear has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 26.1] 05:19 [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Wiz Gno Fem Cha), 1794 points, T:2342, quit 07:01 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 08:08 -!- amateurhour has joined #evilhack 09:35 -!- elenmirie has joined #evilhack 09:52 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Con Dwa Fem Cha) polymorphed her first item, on T:30035 09:53 T:30035 and still no identify scrolls 10:02 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Con Dwa Fem Cha) chose a runed dagger to be named "Sting", on T:30073 10:17 T:30646 first identify scroll! 10:22 gratz! 10:33 -!- Umbire has joined #evilhack 11:03 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Con Dwa Fem Cha) had a polished shield entrusted to her by Tymora, on T:31410 11:05 ooh interesting gift... 11:07 Shield of reflection, baller 11:07 +4 11:07 and the only id scroll I have seen gave full inventory id, things are looking up! 11:27 Woo 11:27 How far you get with this one? 11:28 I could be wrong but I believe this convict has survived for at least 1000 turns 11:31 I am asking how far he got. 11:38 heh 11:38 got as far as the quest level 11:39 the altar there is nice for camping 11:48 Agree 12:10 -!- krm26 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:10 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Con Dwa Fem Cha) had a dagger entrusted to her by Tymora, on T:31553 12:49 [backscroll] fix - disable curses mode 12:53 tty for the win 13:28 [hdf-us] [evil] post163 (Wiz Hob Mal Neu) performed his first genocide (hobbits), on T:1 13:28 [hdf-us] [evil] post163 (Wiz Hob Mal Neu), 0 points, T:1, killed by a scroll of genocide 13:30 [hdf-us] [evil] post163 (Wiz Hum Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (humans), on T:1 13:38 -!- elenmirie has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 13:38 -!- post163 has joined #evilhack 13:39 !setmintc 5000 13:39 post163: [hdf-au][hdf-eu][hdf-us] Min reported turncount for post163 set to 5000 13:39 -!- post163 has quit [Client Quit] 13:39 ^ that was me 13:40 sneaky 13:43 mobi is that how you ascend so often with high asc% 13:43 you have an alt you do all the splats on 13:44 then when you know it's gonna be a winner you switch to mobileuser 13:44 newsflash: post163 is mobileuser in disguise 13:44 hah 13:45 read all about this SHOCKING SCANDAL. 13:45 as a bot admin I can setmintc on anybody, so just ask 13:45 so can tangles 13:45 can u set post163 mintc to 0 pls 13:45 thank 13:45 !setmintc post163 0 13:45 K2: [hdf-au][hdf-eu][hdf-us] Min reported turncount for post163 set to 0 13:45 lol 13:45 :P 13:46 can u set mine to 0 I'm too lazy to do it myself 13:46 no 13:46 I'm too lazy to accomidate your laziness 13:46 the admin is lazy and needs overthrowing 13:46 :( 13:46 vote for me the worst that can happen is I'm lazy too which I pinky swear won't happen *wink* 13:48 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXEglx-or6k 13:48 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Con Dwa Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (leprechauns), on T:31968 13:50 amateurhour don't tell aoei that I am post163 or she will merge my scoreboard accounts 13:50 hahaha 13:51 :D 13:52 EPI: leprexorns, gold-stealing and phasing 13:52 and gold-burying 13:53 eeeexcellent 14:00 [hdf-us] [evil] post163 (Wiz Hum Fem Cha), 0 points, T:1, killed by a scroll of genocide 14:03 did you see one of the recent commits to nethack 3.7? 14:03 yeah 14:03 leps will bury the gold they stole after the teleport away 14:03 I complimented paxed on his evilness 14:03 EPI: amulet of yendor is made of gold 14:03 doh 14:04 YANI: on level with a lep room, somewhere on that level is 'the end of the rainbow' where all the leps deposit their gold 14:04 guarded by vecna 14:05 guarded by giga vecna 14:05 @le?Giga Vecna 14:05 Giga Vecna (L) | Lvl: 95 | Diff: 75 | Spd: 10 | Res: fire cold sleep disintegrate poison acid petrification magic drain | Confers: fire cold | MR: 100 | Generates: unique | AC: -15 | Attacks: 9d9 touch random breath, 10d10 cast cast, 10d10 cast cast, 10d10 cast cast, 5d10 non-contacting-beam makes-you-aggravate-monsters, 10d10 breath disintegrate | Alignment: -15 | Flags: breathless, regenerates, poisonous, nopoly, undead, stal 14:06 too long for hecubus to print the full thing but Hecubus still sends two messages? 14:06 I guess that's some config either in pinobot or the irc bot 14:08 the bot has a limiter built in so it doesnt get kicked for flooding 14:08 why don't you add invisible objects? 14:09 that's more evil than buried stuff 14:09 ugh no 14:09 I've mentioned that patch before 14:09 it's not actually that evil 14:09 hate invis objects 14:09 hated them in grunthack 14:09 but love buried objects? :) 14:09 yes 14:09 buried good, invis bad 14:09 the odds of a random object being invisible is really low 14:09 unless it's like ring of invis 14:09 or a spellbook of invis 14:09 and invisible objects can't be stolen (unless the stealer has see invis which none of them do) 14:10 which you cant read unless you can see invis :) 14:10 so don't make your own scrolls and spellbooks invisible then lol 14:11 not adding invis objects 14:12 bhaak vanilla invisible objects when? :P 14:13 I'm not going down that rabbit hole. there's a death fighting arena down there 14:13 I've not seen many invisible objects in all my SLASH variant games, thinking on it. 14:14 of course, you couldn't see them 14:14 ...I thought TNNT was over? 14:14 haha, it's really low odds, wiki says it's 1/1250 for random object to be invis 14:16 Don't really factor in that much in the grand scheme of things, either. 14:19 those odds must have been upped in grunthack 14:22 -!- krm26 has joined #evilhack 14:22 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:25 -!- elenmirie has joined #evilhack 14:26 -!- Umbire has joined #evilhack 14:40 hmm, can't get rebatela's spectre to use ogresmasher 14:42 hilarious that you are playing with my ghost 14:43 there he goes! needed to be adjacent to an enemy 14:43 I forget how Ogresmasher actually works in Evil. 14:43 he won't wear the gear i want him to wear, got to be very careful about his toys -- takes off his +5 helm of speed for crap elven helms 14:43 Had plenty of experience with it in xnh, but not here. 14:44 elven helms don't interfere with spellcasing. ghost is smart 14:46 Can spectres even cast spells? 14:46 heh. i don't think so 14:47 as far as speed goes, i would imagine you could zap speed monster at it and it would be whatever "fast" is for pets for the rest of the game? 14:47 The helm's "very fast" speed, though. 14:47 ...I actually don't know if monsters differentiate those, that's a good question. 14:48 Also, monster AI that factored in ability to cast and armored themselves accordingly would be Neat™. 14:49 guess specter won't wear armor or cloak 14:49 -!- qt has joined #evilhack 14:50 well they were a giant... 14:50 Yeah, that'd do it 14:50 i'm surprised that it retains any info about its previous race 14:51 Probably for "turn undead" purposes where it gets shoved back into its body. 14:52 It's interesting since I don't know if giant-made spectres are any different from the others. 14:52 i've got like 50 charges of polymorph lying around and i need to figure out what to do with them 14:53 give them to meeeeee 14:54 this character is like wizard mode, it is paralyzing 14:54 trying to decide if i want to change from black dsm to gold or something...but i think that passive disintegration is a substantial part of my offense at the moment 14:55 The classic role-playing dilemma of "too many options". 14:55 my 16 str +6 vorpal/+7 frost brand does suprisingly little median damage 14:55 Hold on a tick. 14:55 !whereis krm26 14:55 Umbire: [hdf-us] krm26 [evil]: (Tou Hob Fem Neu) T:95544 The Dungeons of Doom level: 6 14:55 Ah, hobbit. 14:55 Polypile for like, GoP or something? 14:55 * Umbire shrugs. 14:56 i have like 8 sets of GoP 14:56 wearing Dragonbane 14:56 -!- elenmirie has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 14:56 Yeah, that'd also do it. 14:56 You combine all those resources with setups that seem like overpreparing and yet end up not being prepared "enough", it's no wonder people pack rat a lot. 14:57 yeah, the problem i have is based on carrying capacity :-) can't bring ALL of my wands of death and teleportation and etc. 14:57 Mood. 14:57 Flipside of that is... 14:57 no wonder since i have basically two games worth or artifact wishes and ascension kits (thanks rebatela :-) 14:57 Well it's fucking Dragonbane, you don't get that kinda coverage anywhere else. 14:58 this character bootstrapped on it, Dragonbane from a L2 shop 14:58 Yeah, you mentioned that previously. 14:58 gold dsm has to be worth it i guess just to ignore pestilence 14:58 Hmmm. 14:58 Do you have an apron? 14:59 i have everything, in multiple copies 14:59 Actually what's your current cloak, I'm curious. 14:59 +5 dragonhide protection 14:59 Ah. 15:00 'cause I was thinking apron/gold DSM/GoP/shirt of decay if you wanted to deal with the carry cap thing, just for sake of keeping brain exercised. 15:00 You'd still want that sweet sweet MC3, though. 15:00 yeah, and i owe it to my gloves to see it thru :-) 15:05 Yeah. 15:06 It's not like you have to listen to me anyway, I just like thinking now and then. 15:06 no, i always need all the help i can get! 15:06 I doubt you'd need it from me. 15:07 why, are you a secret 5th column working for rodney? 15:08 I unfortunately don't have a joke answer to go with that query or the mood required to think of one. 15:09 Far as ye old hypothetical hobbit, could probably use an amulet of guarding or =oProt to help with MC3, but even then there's probably far better options. 15:09 And that's before considering whatever amulets you're using. 15:10 does the hesperides stack its +1 with guarding? i vaguely thought they were exclusive 15:11 the wiki says that the Bag of Hesperides confers 1 level of protection - I assume this is extrinsic? 15:11 I'd be inclined to assume the same. 15:12 I don't know much about protection in that regard, though, so. 15:16 Yeah, extrinsic protection doesn't stack, and alchemy smocks're only MC1 15:17 KTwo did mention datsund(sp?)-style DSM coming in the next version, so... 15:17 * Umbire ponders gold-scaled CPM 15:18 yeah, there is gonna be a lot of scaled CPM going on for sure 15:19 having a cloak of reflection is gonna shake things up 15:19 amulet of flying will get more use 15:20 i thought is was intrinsic protection that didn't stack? extrinsic, e.g. from a ring, does 15:21 Extrinsic doesn't stack. 15:21 Intrinsic does stack but has nothing to do with MC. 15:22 Extrinsic MC bonuses* don't stack, sorry. 15:22 just checked in wiz mode Hesperides and Robe give 'protected' - MC3 15:23 That's the robe's MC2 + 1 from the Bag 15:23 The MC2 is intrinsic to the armor, additional protection from stuff like BotH augments that. 15:24 It's the latter augments that don't stack, i.e. carrying the Tsurugi and/or wearing a ring of protection wouldn't make it a +2 to MC. 15:24 Did I explain that properly? 15:24 Feel like I phrased it badly the first time. 15:28 it's all very confusing, I have had games where armor MC1 + intrinsic MC + extrinsic MC seemed to add up to MC3 15:28 Yeah, I imagine it can be. 15:28 but then in other games it seemed like I didn't get the MC3 15:29 Might be that you're feeling the difference between MC2 and 3 somehow? 15:29 well, from enlightement check 15:29 Ah. 15:29 i'm being lax in my wording - i was thinking about the MC granted by extrinsic protection, which does stack (as opposed to the MC granted by intrinsic protection, which doesn't) 15:29 Right. 15:30 I likely misunderstood based off that, then. 15:30 Just as I'm not sure what "intrinsic MC" is in mobileuser's case - is that referring to intrinsic protection also? 15:30 I mean granted by the god 15:30 or the priest 15:31 Ah, that's just AC (that I'm aware of) 15:31 no.... 15:31 see wiki :-) 15:31 same as what i was thinking of - intrinsic protection 15:31 I've been looking at it this whole time. 15:32 The intrinsic protection article makes no mention of enhancing anything other than MC. 15:32 Erm, AC. 15:32 Bleah, mixing those up now too. 15:32 since there's like 3-4 different ways to get protection, it's not a simple what does/doesn't stack, it's which sources do/don't stack with other sources :) 15:33 "Intrinsic protection counts as magic cancellation 1, but doesn't stack with armor sources" 15:33 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Magic_cancellation 15:33 but does it stack with extrinsic protection 15:34 as an aside, MC2 or MC3 doesn't mean a lot anymore at some point I feel. I know others disagree. 15:35 I somewhat agree, actually. Might be Luck-related. 15:35 Incoming in 5... 15:35 Note that magic cancellation from armor is not cumulative—the player's magic cancellation is the maximum of that provided by any single piece of armor worn. This means that if you are wearing a chain mail with MC 1, and a dwarvish cloak with MC 1, then your magic cancellation is still 1. 15:35 Magic cancellation can also be granted by protection, either intrinsic or extrinsic. Extrinsic protection augments your magic cancellation by 1, to a maximum of 3. Intrinsic protection counts as magic cancellation 1, but doesn't stack with armor sources. 15:36 yes, that's the relevant bit 15:37 So in the case of having intrinsic protection, it'd still be just MC1 unless you were wearing something with MC2 which... gives MC2. 15:37 K2: When I'm a xorn i should be able to loot a locked stone chest without opening it! 15:38 you cant in vanilla right? 15:38 Lithivoric diets aren't a thing in vanilla. 15:38 Or anything outside of SLEX/THEM. 15:40 no, you can't in vanilla 15:41 it actually might be a really ez mod, maybe i'll look at it 15:41 i don't play around much with polyself -- is there a convenient way to turn back other than dying and timing out? 15:42 Poly back into your normal form. 15:42 isnt that a "new self" thing, where stats can be randomized? 15:42 My inclination is now based on fiddling with Doppleganger stuff, but still a good question. Gimme a bit to confirm... 15:44 "Polymorphing to your own race while being a monster just returns you to your basic form and then makes you "a new " as in the previous section." 15:44 Seems like it'd be a yes. 15:44 You can also just let the polyform time out like normal. 15:50 dammit K2 a dark room with water, how evil 15:51 In dnh I've walked into water not paying attention like, 10 different times and only lost some scrolls for it. 15:51 Have Luck to thank for that ofc, but it's a bit tricky sometimes when all the water tiles sorta blend together. 16:04 K2 why didn't Kaddudun the illithid priest try to eat my brains? 16:04 very glad he didn't, but I was surprised 16:06 dunno yet 16:10 Shot in the dark, but player illithids have one tentacle attack that procs occasionally, yeah? 16:10 What if it's related to that? 16:15 he didn't try any tentacle attack... maybe I was just lucky 16:16 Maybe. 16:19 getting blasted by 3 artifacts when i polymorph is fun 17:21 [hdf-eu] [evil] Graznop (Val Cen Mal Neu) made his first artifact wish - "blessed fixed +3 Dragonbane", on T:37436 17:22 [hdf-eu] [evil] Graznop (Val Cen Mal Neu) wished for "blessed fixed +3 oilskin fedora", on T:37439 17:30 [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±11] https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/compare/d3f3abda9832...50291c5a2b02 17:31 [EvilHack] k21971 3b24e71 - Fix: offhand bloodthirsty attacks (wielding Stormbringer and/or the Sword of Kas). 17:31 [EvilHack] k21971 3ad296f - Fix: some perm_invent curses mode issues. 17:31 [EvilHack] k21971 50291c5 - Adjust alignment record penalty for Convict's killing 'always peaceful' monsters that became hostile just from seeing the Convict. 17:31 Huh. 17:31 Maybe team whining is worth it. 17:31 there's a difference between whining and pointing out a possible bug 17:32 But it always feels like whining anyway... 17:32 amateurhour hasnt learned that difference yet, which is why his 'suggestions' take so long to implement, or dont happen at all :) 17:32 In any case, I ended up doing a whole MGS bit with one Convict in Un, and I'm happy to have the incentive for it remain in Evil 17:33 Honestly, probably gonna end up killing one or two of them anyway for armor's sake. 17:33 Gloves're hard to come by sometimes! 17:34 Makes it a nice weighty decision even before you go into matters of alignment abuse. 👍 17:35 GO TEAM WHINGE \o/ 17:36 WE DID IT 17:36 you did nothing 17:36 :P 17:36 there's no 'i' in 'team' K2 17:36 there is one in 'dick' though 17:36 K2: i'd like to report a bug 17:36 self-own? :P 17:36 no lol 17:37 NetSysFire hi 17:37 i have paranoid swim enabled and when i almost stepped into water it said "you narrowly avoid plunging into the moat" 17:37 yet it is water. not a moat 17:37 some pools are moats 17:37 yes but farlooked it 17:37 its in the mines 17:38 it says water, not moat. you only have moats in special spaces anyways 17:38 right, 'water' can be either a poll or a moat 17:38 [hdf-us] [evil] karibou (Rog Elf Fem Neu), 1340 points, T:3649, killed by a fog cloud 17:38 you wont be able to tell via farlook 17:38 *pool 17:39 so why does the paranoid swim warning say moat instead of "body of water" or something? 17:39 because that particular body of water is flagged as a moat 17:39 I think it's random per square in gnomish mines river whether it's a pool, a puddle, or a moat 17:40 si 17:40 is it really a moat if it's not surrounding a castle? YANI: tiny castles in moats 17:40 no its definitely not a moat 17:41 wait nvm 17:41 i conjured a flame sphere and it didnt evaporate the tile 17:41 the tiny castle would be an item that literally does nothing except legitimise the 'moatness' of the square 17:44 [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Pri Ith Fem Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4128 17:44 great i got the sewers 17:46 those commits I just did address a few curses mode perm_invent quirks 17:47 nice 17:47 what was the issue with offhand bloodthirsty attacks? they just didn't happen? 17:48 say you had stormbring in offhand, and a normal weapon in primary 17:48 both would attack without provocation 17:48 ah right, I see 17:48 *stormbringer 17:48 nice find 17:48 that was all qt 17:49 !who 17:49 K2: [hdf-us] gratefuldev [evil] tinklebear [evil] :: [hdf-eu] NetSysFire [evil] Graznop [evil] :: [hdf-au] No current players 17:49 too popular to ever update again 17:49 rip 17:49 hah 17:49 tinklebear pointed out the perm_invent one with fountain 18:00 flame sphere is actually really useful if you use it right 18:01 How so? 18:01 I wanna know if we're thinking the same thing. 18:01 i got my own double bones lol 18:02 Umbire: its basically a homing missile 18:02 Ah. 18:02 [hdf-eu] [evil] Graznop (Val Cen Mal Neu) killed Juiblex, on T:38149 18:02 I was thinking "mass drownings". 18:02 [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Pri Ith Fem Cha) destroyed NetSysFire's ghost, the former Jail-bird, on T:7587 18:03 that too 18:06 [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Pri Ith Fem Cha) destroyed mightyquinn's ghost, the former Investigator, on T:8565 18:24 [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Pri Ith Fem Cha) polymorphed her first object, on T:10090 18:35 does the minetown guard always tell you to not drink from the fountain whereever they are in minetown? 18:36 i just dried up both fountains and the watch doesnt care at all 18:37 they'll only say something if they're in sight, but i think it should make them mad even if they don't see you do it 18:37 qt: Message from K2 at 2022-01-11 02:04 UTC: thanks for the patch, I'll incorporate it 18:37 well. nothing happened. its double bones town 18:37 * NetSysFire vaguely looks in K2's direction 18:38 even attacking peacefuls works without angering them 18:39 something f'd up because of the bones maybe? 18:39 maybe they're on strike 18:40 bones prob 18:40 but i'll have a look 18:40 you're illithid, so maybe some weird quirk 18:41 no 18:41 i saw infidel 18:41 but you're illithid 18:41 nm 18:41 its double bones. convict and arc bones 18:42 i am ith pri 18:42 yup 18:42 my brain saw 'infidel' 18:42 I should punish it with an alcoholic drink 18:42 !booze 18:42 * Hecubus delivers K2 a schooner of grog, brewed by Announcy at 37 Kelvin. 18:42 chilly 18:43 ah so i am still infidel in your mind? good to know :p 18:43 :P 18:43 also if you are really intrigued about this potential bug, i dont mind any debugging measures, you can even take my save if you want to. i really do not care because there is nothing secret on there anyways 18:43 except my stash 18:44 with allll the wands the monsters shouldnt get. so dont tell them! 18:44 Yeah, that sounds like a bug. 18:45 [hdf-us] [evil] qt (Sam Hum Mal Law) killed the invisible Lolth, on T:110031 18:46 lol th 18:48 i didn't use a boulder fort or anything, felt like a pretty balanced fight. there were a couple moments I thought I might bite it 18:49 at one point i didn't realize I was stuck to a centipede or something so all my "attacks" just resulted in "you cannot escape from the centipede" 18:49 also i got stripped by a succubus while lolth was right next to me 18:49 lmfao sheesh. 18:49 but i succeeded in the end 18:49 It's like that in the heat of battle. 18:49 you cannot escape from the .* should be an alert in your rcfile 18:50 good idea NetSysFire 18:50 "You cannot escape from the lichen!" 18:50 Very good idea. 18:51 I think I already have that in my standard rcs for drowning potential. 18:52 yeah graz'zt is the only one i currently feel a boulder fort is mandatory for 18:52 "You hear .* making a wish!" should be an alert too 18:52 which i do not like 18:55 my poor pegasus was eaten 18:57 F 18:58 [hdf-eu] [evil] Graznop (Val Cen Mal Neu) killed Yeenoghu, on T:38304 19:20 does spiked barding protect horsies from getting eaten 19:21 yup 19:21 works perfectly 19:21 si 19:21 but alas, no polish on it 19:21 imagine trying to eat a pufferfish whole 19:21 ^ spiked barding 19:27 [hdf-eu] [evil] Graznop (Val Cen Mal Neu) killed Orcus, on T:38734 19:33 wish there were stats for the uniques (Orcus: 17 wins, 274 losses :-) 19:33 -!- elenmirie has joined #evilhack 19:33 i'd credit any death on a level with a living demon prince/lord to them 19:35 YASI: defeating every demon lord & prince plus vecna and kathryn in evilhack is counted as an alternate ascension 19:35 your deity goes 'welp you are a bad ass, come with me to heaven' 19:36 and when you get there, you're put to work doing dishes with mobileuser 19:39 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Ran Gno Fem Cha) became literate by reading a book, on T:4321 19:39 -!- qt has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:02 -!- qt has joined #evilhack 20:08 the dishwasher returns 20:19 [hdf-eu] [evil] Graznop (Val Cen Mal Neu) destroyed the invisible Vlad the Impaler, on T:39780 20:19 [hdf-eu] [evil] Graznop (Val Cen Mal Neu) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:39782 20:35 when giants see me get the tinning kit out of the bag they should flee in terror 20:40 :P 20:40 mobileuser did you see the latest commits today? 20:50 what's a 'staff of divination and fire'? 20:50 A staff of divination with what sounds like an oprop 20:50 a staff of divination with an oprop? 20:51 that's unusual right? another case of a magical item with an oprop 20:51 Yeah, just unsure how unusual exactly. 20:54 lucky 20:56 I did see the convict commit K2 ;-) 20:56 WE DID IT 20:56 high-fives all round! 20:56 to be honest, I still think there should be zero alignment penalty 20:57 (time to do dishes) 20:58 I don't mind an alignment penalty, just not a gigantic one. 20:58 [hdf-us] [evil] Cronos (Tou Gno Fem Neu) destroyed mightyquinn's ghost, the former Investigator, on T:40808 20:58 Incentive to stealth through the watch entirely, but you're not turbofucked if you wanna snatch some dude's gloves. 20:59 -!- rebatela has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:03 [hdf-us] [evil] Cronos (Tou Gno Fem Neu) had Giantslayer bestowed upon her by The Lady, on T:41164 21:08 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack 21:09 -!- spicyCebolla has joined #evilhack 21:12 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:26 [hdf-us] [evil] qt (Sam Hum Mal Law) killed Orcus, on T:114536 21:27 victory over dorkus is mine 21:28 :) 21:28 it looks like those special spell school staves arent being counted as magical 21:29 seen spell satves with obj props on them now 3 times (including qt's) 21:29 *staves 21:29 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Tou Hob Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:98307 21:29 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Tou Hob Fem Neu) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:98309 21:29 idk when you get an unIDed one as a wizard, it says 'a magical etched staff' 21:31 -!- krm26 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:31 they seem to be marked as magical items in objects.c 21:31 right 21:31 weird 21:31 maybe its just a series of very lucky rng rolls close together 21:38 no :( 21:38 my faithful balrog, who has been with me since mines end, finally disintegrated himself on a black dragon 21:38 fuck this shit world 21:39 he died doing what he loved: whacking monsters with Trollsbane with complete abandon 21:46 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack 21:54 okay, why the hell do all my armor pieces keep losing all their enchantment and becoming unblessed 21:54 Cancellation? 21:54 Monsters can cast that at you. 21:54 is this some bullshit 'challenging' random cancellation that you cannot prevent or detect 21:54 I may be confusing it for a monster zapping the wand, actually. 21:55 how does that add anything to the game except 5 hours of grinding after every excursion to polypile 10 more stupid scrolls of enchant armor 21:55 Umbire: I don't think there were any monsters with cancel wands 21:56 Probably the monster spell, then. 21:57 "Acts just like having a wand of cancellation zapped at the player. The spellcasting monster must be lined up with the player before it can cast this spell." 21:58 in what way could it possibly make the game more fun to have all your armor randomly cancelled any time you step within eyeshot of a spellcasting monster 21:58 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Con Dwa Fem Cha) killed Croesus, on T:37528 21:58 I forget if it's preventable, might need MR? But you're definitely able to spot the caster ahead of time in some instances. 21:58 You're well within rights to complain, mind. 21:59 I've had magic resistance this entire time 21:59 Oh, well fuck. 22:00 yeah it's MGC_CANCELLATION in the source qt 22:00 I am really not looking forward to needing to spend hours assembling enough enchant armor scrolls to bring everything back up from +0 every time I wander around in the dungeon 22:01 did you attack a gray dragon 22:01 or something wearing gray scales 22:01 no, i have genocided gray dragons 22:02 Looks to be the monster spell, amateurhour. 22:02 (Or a beholder gaze.) 22:02 ((Preeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetty sure it's the monster spell tho.) 22:03 seems like MR doesn't help your items or something? 22:04 small consolation, but in grunt it is even worse 22:05 here's the video of it happening. you can see my AC rising (silently) from -47 to -36 22:05 https://0x0.st/oi7i.mp4 22:05 >Lolth 22:05 Oh goddamnit. 22:05 it might be intended 22:05 so I shrugged and said 'okay, I get it, boss spellcaster has this nasty spell.' but now some random mook has done the same crap to me a couple levels later 22:06 i carry lots of blessed enchant armors towards the end because yeah you get canceled.. 22:06 like K2 would say something like 'foo resistance protects you, not your items' 22:06 where foo is [fire, magic, etc] 22:06 I feel like* 22:06 the cool thing is you don't have to undress now to enchant a piece (thanks amaterhour!) 22:06 First drop is 5 AC, 0:10-11 22:07 Then another 6 when Lolth hits with her scimitar 22:08 @e?Lolth 22:08 Lolth (&) | Lvl: 67 | Diff: 36 | Spd: 12 | Res: fire sleep poison drain | Confers: nothing | MR: 70 | Generates: unique | AC: -10 | Attacks: 3d4 weapon physical, 2d4 weapon physical, 2d4 bite paralyze, 0d0 touch webs, 4d6 cast clerical, 4d6 cast spell | Alignment: -15 | Flags: seeinvis, poisonous, nopoly, stalker, covetous, infravisible 22:08 that'll be lolth casting it in attack chain 22:08 first melee attack then later on spell 22:08 i don't think the reason it happened is a mystery 22:08 It's a mage spell to boot 22:08 yeah 22:08 the reason k2 thought this would be fun is a mystery 22:09 it's not fun but creates some challenges 22:09 I agree but I suspect we're of the minority opinion 22:09 what are the challenges? spend 5 hours polypiling more enchant armor every time you return to your stash? 22:09 I mean I don't disagree myself, just can't weigh in much not being at that stage yet. 22:10 it's pure tedium. i would like it if, say, it wore off after a time, or a single enchant armor scroll could reverse it (like how restore ability/full heal works) 22:10 yeah cancellation as a status effect 22:10 some variants have that 22:10 (at least one of which is annoying in its own way) 22:11 I don't know. Things rust, burn, deteriorate etc. It's just another thing to deal with. 22:11 In vanilla nothing can touch you at some point, in evilhack you have to stay alert. 22:11 rust, burning, deterioiration are all things you can plan against and prevent to at least some degree 22:12 yeah and you could argue that is boring 22:12 so evilhack adds stuff that keeps challenging you 22:12 Erosion isn't nearly as immediate, though 22:12 i mean, i like the idea of your stuff being vulnerable, but not when the actual effect is 'okay, i got my 40 turns in gehennom, now back to spending 8000 turns polypiling scrolls' 22:13 then i'll be ready for another 40 turns, i can't wait 22:13 well to be honest I don't really recognize that experience 22:13 You can soldier on with damaged armor, hell there's even a repair armor spell for it 22:13 yes things ger cancelled from time to time 22:13 but not constantly 22:13 * get 22:13 mobileuser: my experience is that my shit got cancelled, I just spent all the enchant armor i had stockpiled to get them back to 50% of where they were, and within 100 turns of returning to gehennom everything got cancelled again 22:14 by some random low-level caster 22:14 super bad luck? I don't know. 22:14 i end up with plenty of blssed enchant armors from polypiling. You just need to hold on to some even after your gear is maxed out because you will get canceled 22:15 also I tend to not max enchant everyting 22:15 of course it's not "fun" 22:15 and keep scrolls in reserve 22:15 what rebatela said :-) 22:15 are the zombies fun? It puzzles me too some of the things he added to the game, but then I remember it's supposed to be "evil" ;) 22:16 i did exactly that, I kept scrolls in reserve, and then I had to use them all and within 5 minutes all of that got wiped again 22:16 hehe i definietly feel your pain qt 22:16 I think the zombies are really fun because they add tension and challenge and new strategic possibilities 22:16 we all know what you're talking about 22:16 it's a bitch 22:16 this just adds tedium because the effect is 'you must spend more time polypiling' 22:16 this is the same reaction I had when K2 told me 'oh, your normal HP growth isn't sufficient to enter gehennom, it's pretty much a requirement to spend a lot of time nurse dancing beforehand' 22:17 well there's truth to that too.. 22:17 it depends 22:17 some games i get lots of hp from alchemy 22:17 but i usually nurse dance as well 22:17 the part of evilhack that is fun is the challenging tactics where stakes are high, you have to think carefully and plan ten moves ahead because you could die any second 22:18 needing to spend a thousand turns on mandatory polypiling or nurse dancing is the polar opposite of that 22:18 i mean, you don't HAVE to be so prepared... I was watching krm26 play earlier and he ony had like 250 maxhp and was I wondering why... I think his pet spectre (me) has more hp 22:19 if that was me i'd nurse dance for another couple hundred hp 22:19 but you don't have to 22:19 and you likewise you can still survive having your dragonhide gear get canceled from +5 to +0 22:20 i try to make it as easy as possible for myself tho 22:20 so try to the ac as low and maxhp as high as possible 22:21 sorry for typos 22:22 but you don't really NEED -70ac to ascend evil 22:22 Nurse dancing has such diminishing returns in the late game. I'd rather just spend another 30k turns farming full healing. 22:23 30k turns farming full healing sounds like hell 22:23 you dont *need* really high hp... it just helps 22:24 same could be said for vanilla nethack 22:25 the same could not be said for vanilla nethack 22:25 it's not really a fair comparison when you can yolo ascend with +3ac and like 80 maxhp 22:25 dunno why you're not seeing the cancellation messages 22:26 for many race/role combinations evilhack is literally not survivable with the HP you get from normal growth 22:26 lolth was obviously hitting you with cancellation spell 22:26 do you have that hidden in your cfg 22:26 ? 22:26 yes, I hid it because I don't want to be reminded of your worst mistake 22:26 hah 22:26 lol 22:27 I probably just skipped through with or something 22:27 i don't remember 22:27 I understand the need to vent 22:27 in a way I'm kinda glad someone else is getting tilted about something in the game 22:27 wont change anything though 22:28 welcome to the thunderdome 22:28 okay 22:28 it can be pretty lonely seemingly being the only one to dislike some things 22:29 honestly, I wouldnt worry too much about armor being cancelled. bigger concern is weapons/wands 22:29 you probs still got this game qt, I believe in u 22:29 it's not a game ending problem 22:29 yeah 22:30 you just had some bad rolls. sometimes cancellation only hits one object or sometimes nothing is affected 22:30 i just think it's a huge misstep to incentivize stupid busywork and disincentivize playing the actual game 22:30 and then other games, poof everything 22:30 its only stupid busy work if you feel its necessary 22:30 tell yourself it isnt 22:31 is it time for this? https://www.hardfought.org/etherpad/p/EvilHack#L58 22:32 bouquet: As a monk, every HP helps! 22:32 wtf it's arahael 22:32 Hi!!! 22:32 Hello arahael, Welcome to #evilhack 22:32 not seen you for a bajillion years 22:32 he said hello hours ago in the teamsplat channel 22:32 I know! I discovered VR, and have been in that world for a week or two. 22:32 welcome back to team 'a' 22:32 I think we established dec 24th was the last arahael sighting. 22:32 Heh. :) 22:32 :P 22:32 K2 I mustn't have been online at that time 22:33 nethack VR sounds awesome. 22:33 no one said 'yes' to line 58 so i guess it isnt 22:33 I'm pretty sure I took a break from nethack mid november then literally didn't see arahael since then till now 22:33 * K2 erased line 58 22:33 K2 is it intentional that MR doesn't protect your items from cancellation? 22:33 hahah 22:34 it never has 22:34 ^ amateurhour 22:34 the only case in vanilla was self-zap I think 22:34 which no armour protects or something 22:34 right thats the only way you would ever get cancelled in vanilla 22:34 yeah mr never protects you against self-zap 22:34 for any wand 22:34 amateurhour: Sounds about right. I've been learning ASL and BSL in virtual reality lately. 22:34 so there wasnt anything to disable when monsters could use cancellation 22:35 but it does protect you from being cancelled by other stuff? I mean it checks for MR in that function 22:35 oh wait there is one other case 22:35 if a monster wielded MB against you 22:35 but still, nothing currently protects against cancellation 22:35 i learnt the hard way that wands can be cancelled by leaving a wand of wishing in open inventory :-( 22:35 like it checks for it here 22:35 https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/blob/master/src/zap.c#L3072 22:36 also having the bell of opening cancelled is a pain 22:36 is the intention of removing line 58 is that GDSM now protects against cancellation? 22:36 i just don't understand why the cancellation spell isn't a beam spell, like it is for the player 22:36 How can monks or wizards with CPM protect against cancellation?L 22:36 bouquet it was a joke 22:37 imo that may be the only balance it needs, something that would give you the ability to dance around and avoid direct attacks 22:37 arahael: gray dragons are on my genocide list now because of that. 22:38 bouquet: Too many other monsters still have a cancellation attack though. 22:38 qt, monsters wont cast cancellation at you if you arent lined up 22:38 initally you didnt need to be lined up 22:38 with cancel wands or something else? 22:38 bouquet, some high level spellcasting monsters can cast cancellation spell 22:39 omg look at all those tab indents 22:39 ah, I just assumed that was an out of sight wand attack 22:40 wouldn't line 58 make grey DSM almost mandatory? One of the things I like about eh at the moment is other choices for DSM 22:40 wait shouldn't there have been a shield effect when i got cancelled even if i ed past the message 22:40 looking at cancel_monst(zap.c) 22:40 yeah 22:40 but there wasn't anything 22:40 oh sparkle was offf 22:41 supposedly 3 items instead of 6 for MR 22:41 rnd for that 22:41 no roll for whether it hits the item or not 22:41 seems to do inventory order rather than random object? 22:42 so you can game the system maybe by doing some boring inventory shuffling 22:42 amateurhour: it looks like it counts all the objects, then cancels the rnd(count(objects))th item in the list 22:42 qt so you're aware - that bit of code in cancel_monst comes from grunthack (hence the tab indents). there may be bugs 22:42 so i think it is a random item in inventory 22:43 it is 22:43 oh right yeah 22:43 misread it, sorry/thanks qt 22:44 I gotta sleep, seeya 22:44 -!- amateurhour has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:45 idk I just hate crap that strongly incentivizes (almost to the point of being mandatory) busywork like nurse dancing, alchemy, polypiling, boulder forts, etc, when actually playing the game is so fun 22:46 i'm open to suggestions 22:47 * K2 is cleaning up all the tab indents in zap.c 22:47 they make me sad 22:48 idk if i have any better ideas really. the early game is just so strong and I love it. the way you are basically fighting dirty, using every advantage you can get, you're the clear underdog, you need to think tactically and plan ahead and if you make a mistake you're dead 22:48 it's so good 22:49 thanks 22:50 I dont expect an amazing fix all gameplay issues in late game answer right away hah 22:50 we can think about it and bounce some ideas 22:50 see what comes up 22:50 omg these tab indents 22:50 my solution is once you finish sokoban, a screen shows up that says 'ow! i hit my head! where am i...' and then you wake up in a new game without any of the stuff you collected 22:51 eternal early game 22:51 lol 22:51 LOL 22:51 how about instead of cancel armor, teleport armor 22:51 poof your dsm is now somewhere else on the level 22:52 that's... evil 22:52 foocubi could cast it (obviously they want to get your armor off) 22:52 my initial idea about the armor thing was that enchant armor could work like restore ability, so it has a secondary effect that brings back some of the enchantment lost to cancellation for all your worn armor 22:52 qt: or dip in restore ability 22:52 but that would be such a big mess on the code side 22:52 but that requires adding another field to store highest enchantment 22:53 since you'd have to track peak enchantment for each piece of armor/weapon 22:53 yeah 22:53 not a huge mess on the code side, just have to track that accurately 22:53 save breaking 22:53 i kind of view all changes to major structs as messy I guess lol 22:54 yeah something like that definitely would be savebreaking 22:54 aosdict: could it maybe just drop your armor to the ground on your square or one of the 8 adjacent? 22:54 I mean, the way nethack code is structured, it feels sloppy to add a struct obj field that is only relevant for like 15% of objects and hasn't been overloaded to heck on another 70% 22:55 YANI: ^^ tracking peak ench and making it recoverable 22:56 also YANI: ^^ teleport armor 22:56 it would be evil if it were added to evilhack with no further change, rather than replacing cancelzaps 22:58 cancelled armor is one thing, but suddenly losing your MR or reflection because a monster teleported it away... 22:58 i can see the rage quits now 22:58 k2 a succubus took off my armor when i was right next to lolth, i'm guessing i could have gotten touch of deathed? 22:58 those arent YANI's , those are EPI's 22:58 that was scary lol 22:58 qt yup 22:59 yeah good point putting this power in the hands of monsters who can then follow it up with MR-vulnerable spells 22:59 good :) bet you felt awesome when you overcame 22:59 alhoons now have teleport armor spell 22:59 genius 22:59 hahah 23:00 Yeah succubi near any demon lord is just asking for trouble 23:00 Lolth in particular is a "kms" moment 23:01 [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/compare/50291c5a2b02...6e7917b2360e 23:01 [EvilHack] k21971 6e7917b - Format cleanup in zap.c 23:02 it makes sense that demon lords might keep some foocubi around for just this purpose. 23:02 huh... when did it switch to long web link 23:06 brb 23:14 -!- elenmirie has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 23:14 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 23:27 almost died to yeenoghu in the vecna graveyard when something summoned it in and there was a succubus next to me 23:27 that's the scariest 23:28 when you're getting stunned and naked 23:41 -!- Umbire has quit [Quit: Umbire zaps a wand of digging!] 23:45 -!- Umbire has joined #evilhack 23:48 [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/compare/6e7917b2360e...ec7d1a5102d7 23:48 [EvilHack] k21971 29f88f7 - Bit more formatting cleanup in zap.c 23:48 [EvilHack] k21971 ec7d1a5 - Blessed objects in inventory have a chance to resist being cancelled. 23:49 omg... one of my dogs is gassing me out 23:49 i dont care if its -8 out, outside you go 23:52 Those are the _worst_. 23:56 you said it 23:59 -!- qt has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]