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02:36 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Pri Cen Fem Neu) made her first wish - "blessed +2 silver dragon scale mail", on T:12321
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03:09 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Mosh (Rog Hob Fem Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a flesh golem, on T:8091
03:10 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Mosh (Rog Hob Fem Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:8392
03:15 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Pri Cen Fem Neu) had Dragonbane bestowed upon her by Chih Sung-tzu, on T:12619
03:15 <mobileuser> oh I don't believe it :-)
03:16 <mobileuser> first silver dragon scale mail from a fountain wish and now reflection from dragobane
03:16 <mobileuser> *dragonbane
03:43 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) destroyed Mosh's ghost, the former Heretic, on T:3520
03:46 <arahael> Nice.
03:47 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) became literate by engraving "Elbereth", on T:3627
03:48 <mobileuser> I will still have to use my GoP for a while, my current STR is 11
03:48 <arahael> Hmm, that looks like a bug, K2?
03:48 <arahael> (I tried to write Elbereth, but I didnt'. Almost by definition, that means I didn't become literate because I wrote it - as I didn't write it! ;) If nothing else, I became literate by writing Ermahgerd instead.
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03:49 <mobileuser> Not a bug :-)
03:49 <mobileuser> You now know how to write Ermahgerd  :b 
03:50 <arahael> Yes, but I did not, in point of fact, engrave Elbereth.
03:51 <mobileuser> yeah so if you want to nitpick: became literate by trying to engrave "Elbereth" but engraving "Ermahgerd" instead
03:51 <arahael> Yes, I accept that :)
03:52 <arahael> Not disputing the 'became literate' bit, I'm disputing the 'engraving "Elbereth"' bit.
03:53 <arahael> Is it worth fixing? Probably not, though. :)
03:56 <mobileuser> So if I try to write "test" and it comes out "t?st", I think it is the "test" that gets livelogged
03:56 <mobileuser> not just in evilhack
03:57 <arahael> mobileuser: Well, that's because you wrote "test", but it is already deteriorated.
04:06 <arahael> Variant confusion: When you're excited to find a lamp that's 50 zorks. :(
04:26 <arahael> > The trapper turns into a jabberwock!
04:26 <arahael> That's not good...
04:40 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 7371 points, T:5689, killed by a snake
04:41 <arahael> bah. Misjudged, turns out snakes do more than 16 points of damage.
05:05 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 1207 points, T:768, killed by a shuriken
05:17 <mobileuser> hmmm "I grant thee the gift of Speed"
05:17 <mobileuser> never seen that before
05:19 <mobileuser> I was already fast, so this is a bit weird
05:21 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 888 points, T:1150, killed by a rabid dog
05:22 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Pri Cen Fem Neu) became Chih Sung-tzu's Envoy of Balance, on T:12903
05:31 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) destroyed post163's ghost, the former Gallant, on T:1749
05:41 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 1697 points, T:2493, killed by a giant spider, while praying
05:41 <arahael> Weird game, so many spiders.  So many.
05:42 <arahael> Not only on post163's level, who also died of a giant spider, but also the level below it, etc.  I got swamped.
05:44 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Con Ith Fem Cha), 1464 points, T:3747, killed by a baby owlbear, while sleeping
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08:44 <NetSysFire> imagine an illithid convict, which already has sickness and psionic res with the chromatic dragon scale mail and butcher
08:44 <NetSysFire> also intrinsic flying later on :O
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09:17 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] qt (Kni Hum Fem Law), 361 points, T:1261, killed by Arahael's ghost, while being terrified of a ghost
09:17 <qt> lol, killed by a ghost, while being terrified of a ghost
09:17 <qt> a little bit clunky
09:18 <qt> didn't patr write something recently to address constructions like that
09:18 <qt> that changed it to "killed by foo, while frozen by [it/him/her]" when applicable or something
09:28 <cbus> should a player bother maxing out daggers on a wizard since magicbane is a quarterstaff now?
09:28 <aosdict> probably not
09:28 <cbus> I started a run during lunch where I got to like skilled with dagger
09:28 <aosdict> I mean it's a ranged option but with limited multishot cap I don't see the point
09:28 <cbus> then magicbane was gifted and I realized it is not an athame
09:28 <cbus> :D
09:29 <cbus> on my vanilla wizards I usually drop my starting pretty fast once I have a dagger
09:29 <cbus> also go tagger tossing until at least mid game until you have more mana and possibyl the quest artefact
09:37 <mobileuser> yeah, quarterstaff skill is actually useful for an evilhack wizard :-)
09:38 <cbus> I started a "sucky" (illithid) wizard locally :D
09:38 <mobileuser> and don't put magicbane in your BoH!
09:38 <cbus> yeah read that
09:38 <cbus> wil lprobably create a new account for variants later today or tomorrow and play online
09:38 <cbus> also need to start a spreadcheat for the racial price id thing :D
09:39 <mobileuser> the first time I encountered magicbane was in bones. "ok, let's put this away in the bag for now..."
09:39 <mobileuser> BOOM
09:40 <mobileuser> at least you items get scattered, not destroyed
09:40 <cbus> also playing wizards make for nasty bones with the pet :D
09:40 <mobileuser> not if you have a tripe ration ;-)
09:40 <mobileuser> "domestic" animal
09:41 <cbus> oh nice, didnt expect them to be tameable like that
09:41 <mobileuser> except when you are a knight
09:41 <cbus> I also accidently drained it once since I thought drain life was 1 tile range
09:41 <mobileuser> all D's hate knights
10:00 <qt> I miss athame magicbane :(
10:03 <mobileuser> I was surprised at the low damage of an athame. No better than daggers.
10:11 <qt> but much more badass
10:12 <K2> quarterstaff is a better melee weapon vs dagger
10:12 <K2> plus you have a chance to break a wielded weapon your target is using against you
10:23 <cbus> but wizards usually dont want to go melee because of shittier armor (to be able to cast)
10:23 <cbus> thats my view of it at least :)
10:24 <mobileuser> get an aklys! (my solution to everything)
10:25 <qt> whenever i manage to get a silver aklys (in evil or xnh) i die soon thereafter
10:25 <K2> cbus, of course wizard not having to melee is ideal, but that's not always possible, especially early game
10:25 <qt> i just want to survive long enough to unleash the power of the aklys on demons
10:26 <qt> well, to keep the power of the aklys on a leash so that i can reel it back in after i throw it, really
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10:38 <cbus> feature request, applying a leash to a club creates an aklys :P
10:41 <aosdict> crafthack
10:41 <aosdict> if you go into a certain branch, minecrafthack
10:42 <aosdict> mobileuser: remind me what the rationale of magicbane exploding a boh is? is it purely for flavor?
10:43 <cbus> aosdict, "because of its cancellation effect" (according to evilhack wiki entry)
10:43 <mobileuser> magicbane has a chance to cancel stuff
10:43 <cbus> quoting
10:43 <cbus> "Putting Magicbane into a bag of holding runs a risk of exploding the bag and destroying the artifact due to Magicbane's cancellation magic."
10:45 <K2> ^ that
11:06 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Con Ith Fem Cha), 468 points, T:997, killed by a hobbit zombie
11:09 <NetSysFire> mindflayers suck
11:09 <qt> that's a t-shirt slogan
11:09 <qt> i think
11:17 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Con Ith Fem Cha), 572 points, T:1808, killed by Ms. Ermenak; the shopkeeper, while sleeping
11:24 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Con Ith Fem Cha), 1169 points, T:2592, killed by a blue jelly
11:25 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) had Frost Brand bestowed upon her by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:45015
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11:48 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) killed the Abominable Snowman, on T:46888
12:04 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) defeated Kathryn the Ice Queen, on T:47761
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13:35 <cbus> spinach dosent increase strength?
13:36 <mobileuser> it does?
13:36 <mobileuser> same as vanilla as far as I am aware
13:37 <cbus> hmm, didnt seem to work on my sucky wizard
13:37 <cbus> downed 2 tins
13:37 <mobileuser> not wearing GoP?
13:37 <cbus> nope
13:37 <cbus> St:10
13:38 <mobileuser> ^ K2
13:38 <cbus> will wiztest it
13:38 <K2> illithid?
13:38 <cbus> yeah
13:38 <mobileuser> ah
13:38 <cbus> "sucky wizard" :D
13:38 <K2> their max str is 10
13:38 <cbus> ohhhh
13:39 <mobileuser> you really want non-metallic GoP :-)
13:39 <mobileuser> (bone, stone or even wood)
13:39 <cbus> so far I am rocking hawaiian + wooden ring mail + the starting cloak, steel boots and rusty hard hat :P
13:39 <cbus> just reached sokoban (after going to minetown)
13:40 <mobileuser> sounds good!
13:40 <cbus> got the sokoban 1 level you had earlier :D
13:40 <cbus> (I did observe you)
13:40 <qt> cbus: what is the hawaiian shirt design
13:40 <cbus> The design features birds of paradise on an abstract background.
13:40 <qt> nice
13:41 <cbus> qt is asking the important questions :D
13:41 <mobileuser> I was just going ask, but qt beat me to it of course
13:41 <mobileuser> :b 
13:42 <cbus> having a percentage on skills is so nice
13:42 <cbus> instead of having to manually count :P
13:46 <mobileuser> lol I just found spinach
13:50 <aosdict> what's the starting str distribution for illithids like? how likely are you to start with 10?
13:50 <cbus> I gave up when I got to sokoban 2
13:50 <cbus> too tired to think :D
13:50 <cbus> (not as in #quit but just save it)
13:52 <mobileuser> do you know the spoiler page for evilhack sokoban?
13:52 <cbus> I didnt find that one when I looked tbh
13:53 <mobileuser> it's the same as the unnethack one, but the level numbers can be different
13:53 <cbus> ahh, I have that one bookmarked
13:53 <cbus> ah got it
13:54 <cbus> https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Sokoban_Level_1l thats the one I saved on :P
13:54 <mobileuser> yeah, not too bad but easy to make a mistake there
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14:15 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Con Ith Fem Cha), 717 points, T:1855, crunched in the head by an iron ball
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15:12 <krm26> ouch
15:26 <K2> ow
15:32 <krm26> Grr, why am I always stuck loitering around in the upper 10 levels trying to find MR while my god gives me fucking knives
15:32 <krm26> pardon my French
15:38 <K2> fucking knives? as opposed to cutlery knives?
15:38 <K2> weirdo
15:39 <K2> i'm trying to imagine how that could remotely be fun... can't
15:39 <K2> FYI - if you abuse your alignment, the message will be 'You feel super-duper, god-awful guilty.'
15:40 <krm26> It isn't me, it is my god -- YOUR god, the one you put in your nethack!
15:56 <NetSysFire> K2: i want to repair my iron ball in a forge but it doesnt let me when i am still chained to it
15:57 <NetSysFire> or does the erosion not matter for damage on them? a thoroughly rusty thoroughly corroded heavy iron ball (chained to you) (weapon in claw)
15:58 <K2> they wont erode away
15:58 <K2> luck has a bearing on whether repair will work
15:59 <K2> also, dipping an iron ball in a forge has a chance of melting away the chain
15:59 <NetSysFire> yeah but you need a hammer for that as the message says
15:59 <NetSysFire> i want to repair my iron ball
15:59 <K2> yup
15:59 <NetSysFire> i dont want to break the chain - yet
15:59 <K2> whats your luck
15:59 <NetSysFire> i dunno
16:00 <NetSysFire> the problem is that it always wants to break the chain when i #dip the iron ball into it
16:00 <NetSysFire> it doesnt even give me a choice to actually dip into it
16:00 <K2> hmm
16:01 <NetSysFire> alright, steps to reproduce: 1. let your iron ball erode 2. #dip it into a forge to repair it 3. it always wants to break the chain (if you are shackled to it) instead of repairing it instead of asking to repair it
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16:02 <K2> yeah i added it to bug tracker
16:02 <NetSysFire> \o/
16:03 <NetSysFire> it does reduce your damage when your iron ball is corroded, right? when you are using it as a flail
16:03 <NetSysFire> s/corroded/eroded/
16:03 <K2> yeah supposed to
16:05 <NetSysFire> it has been 14000 turns and i still havent left dlvl 1
16:06 <NetSysFire> and i am xp 8
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16:09 <NetSysFire> o - a dragonhide mummy wrapping.
16:09 <NetSysFire> thanks rng, i guess
16:11 <K2> i see what I did
16:11 <K2> oopsies
16:15 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Con Ith Fem Cha) polymorphed her first object, on T:17790
16:16 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Con Ith Fem Cha), 10001 points, T:17829, killed by an iron golem
16:16 <NetSysFire> damn
16:16 <NetSysFire> damn that was a good run
16:16 <NetSysFire> best convict run i had so far
16:17 <K2> so, do we ask the player if they want to attempt to break the chain if all conditions are met? or just assume they do?
16:17 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Con Ith Fem Cha), 21 points, T:170, killed by a fox
16:17 <NetSysFire> K2: i'd just ask
16:18 <NetSysFire> since it will consume a turn and so on
16:18 <K2> that could get spammy/frustrating
16:18 <NetSysFire> yes
16:18 <NetSysFire> maybe reverse it
16:19 <NetSysFire> dip the iron ball into the forge? (y/n) n
16:19 <NetSysFire> break the chain of the iron forge with your hammer? (y/n)
16:19 <K2> gonna try something that will be spam free
16:22 <K2> Dip a heavy iron ball (chained to you) (480 aum) into the forge? [yn] (n) y  You need some type of hammer to be able to break the chain.  You successfully reforge your heavy iron ball, repairing some of the damage.
16:29 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] Graznop (Pri Gia Fem Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3211
16:30 <bouquet> would a player monster read a scroll of charging?
16:31 <K2> yes
16:31 <bouquet> rude
16:31 <K2> hugs
16:31 <bouquet> rogue stole my boh, read all my charging scrolls. Nymph used all the WoW charges.
16:32 <K2> oh damn
16:32 <bouquet> and no poly wands in this game yet
16:32 <K2> monsters wont wish for scrolls of changing, but if they have one handy, they'll recharge a WoW and use it again
16:32 <K2> *charging
16:32 <bouquet> two different encounters
16:33 <K2> rng hates you
16:33 <bouquet> the rogue was really hard to beat. Was like the arena in tnnt
16:36 <Not-5c6a> [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/JMo5U
16:36 <Not-5c6a> [EvilHack] k21971 29c54c9 - Fix: no option to repair an attached rusted/corroded ball & chain.
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16:43 <NetSysFire> bouquet: what did the nymph wish for?
16:44 <NetSysFire> woo thanks K2 for the quick fix
16:44 <NetSysFire> \o/
16:45 <krm26> aaaargh 25k turns in and I've got NOTHING MAN
16:45 <bouquet> I didn't witness whatever she wished for. 
16:45 <krm26> I hate being stuck in search-every-move-or-get-polyd mode
16:46 <bouquet> wow, Bag of Hesperides AND a magic marker!
16:47 <krm26> lucky!
16:47 <bouquet> especially since I have a 0:0 WoW and some dumb ass rogue stole my BoH and read all the charging scrolls
16:48 <krm26> What did the rogue recharge?
16:49 <bouquet> no idea. Probably the lightning and death wands he stole from me and kept zapping
16:50 <krm26> heh
16:50 <bouquet> better AI than google!
16:53 <krm26> The rogue reads a scroll of charging! The rogue recharges her tinning kit!
16:53 <K2> NetSysFire o/
16:53 <K2> its not live yet fyi
16:53 <nabru> The rogue recharges her wand of nothing!
16:53 <NetSysFire> haha nabru 
16:53 <nabru> That would be quite funny
16:54 <NetSysFire> K2: its fine, its not urgent
16:56 <krm26> Dammit, did I jut find blessed +2 gauntlets of fumbling
16:57 <krm26> That's aggravating
16:57 <mobileuser> that's evilhack
16:57 <NetSysFire> blessed +2 gauntlets of aggravate player
16:57 <K2> nerf random drops
16:58 <krm26> At least my god didn't give that crap to me
16:58 <krm26> I mean, yet
16:58 <NetSysFire> here mortal, after i crowned you and made you a demon, have a +4 silver dagger
16:59 <krm26> Literally ANY piece of armor would be nice, but no, it is always a stupid blessed rustproof spoon
16:59 <krm26> I wonder whose side my god is really on
17:00 <NetSysFire> the gods seem tall
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17:02 <mobileuser> I tried stealth on the priest quest, but it's useless in evilhack :b 
17:02 <krm26> Weird, I don't seem to be fumbling
17:02 <mobileuser> back to the fighting-on-the-stairs strat
17:03 <NetSysFire> would be nice if cursed scrolls of light actually improve stealth
17:03 <krm26> But my dex didn't go up, my str didn't go up, I didn't gain prot, and leather id IDd
17:03 <NetSysFire> maybe its iron gauntlets?
17:03 <NetSysFire> and not fumbling?
17:04 <krm26> IRON GAUNTLETS
17:04 <krm26> Thx, I totally forgot about those
17:05 <krm26> Those good ol' iron gauntlets that you easily mistake for falconry gloves
17:05 <krm26> Falcons love those big heavy iron gauntlets, they sure do
17:09 <krm26> omigod, dodged that by the skin of my teeth -- the alhoon turns into a pit viper
17:10 <NetSysFire> your teeth have skin?!
17:10 <krm26> ...yours don't?
17:12 <NetSysFire> i think you need to brush your teeth
17:14 <bouquet> krm26: maybe it's got an extrinsic like telepathy or fire resist or something?
17:17 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] Graznop (Pri Gia Fem Neu) destroyed NetSysFire's ghost, the former Jail-bird, on T:4962
17:20 <krm26> Hah, you're a dreamer, bouquet
17:22 <mobileuser> "The giant zombie resists infection." what was attacking it...
17:22 <krm26> Although it would have to be like MR, reflection, and stoning resistance to make me wield a knife
17:22 <krm26> mobileuser: scratched itself
17:22 <mobileuser> lol
17:23 <mobileuser> gray fungus maybe
17:24 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Mosh (Rog Hob Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, acquiring a platinum amulet of reflection, on T:21224
17:27 <bouquet> wow, magic marker (0:97)
17:28 <bouquet> I could write a half a volume of Wheel of Time with that!
17:31 <mobileuser> hah, a gray unicorn is fighting zombies and healing sickness with its horn
17:32 <mobileuser> and a cockatrice is creating zombie statues
17:32 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) wished for "the blessed Ring of P'hul", on T:54438
17:32 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) killed Pelias, on T:54439
17:32 <mobileuser> huh?
17:32 <bouquet> 2-shot
17:32 <mobileuser> lawful??
17:32 <bouquet> he was still wearing the ring when I wished for it
17:33 <bouquet> oh snap, I forgot about that
17:33 <mobileuser> you get the ring, but then...
17:33 <bouquet> it's stuck to the ground :(
17:33 <mobileuser> time to turn chaotic ;-)
17:33 <bouquet> normally I would, but then my tsurugi would drop.
17:34 <mobileuser> ok, which do you value more though
17:34 <bouquet> tsurugi
17:34 <bouquet> and I've converted all the altars in the game already.
17:34 <mobileuser> hmm yeah
17:34 <bouquet> lets see if I can avoid screwing up my next wish...
17:35 <mobileuser> slotless MR for a giant would have been so good
17:35 <bouquet> I assume the "large" chromatic dsm can't be wished for.
17:35 <mobileuser> indeed
17:35 <mobileuser> mithril large splint mail of decay
17:35 <bouquet> I guess large mithril splint of decay
17:35 <bouquet> jinx
17:36 <mobileuser> heh
17:36 <bouquet> wonder if anything else has been introduced since the last time I was in a position to wish for it, though
17:36 <bouquet> is that still the only armor option for giants?
17:36 <mobileuser> I believe so, yes
17:37 <bouquet> ok, let me type it out first... "blessed greased +2 mithril large splint mail"
17:38 <Graznop> of decay?
17:38 <bouquet> ya...
17:38 <bouquet> caught myself at the last second
17:38 <bouquet> I swear to crom...
17:38 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased +2 mithril large splint mail of decay", on T:54444
17:38 <NetSysFire> Graznop: wait which bones did you get?
17:39 <NetSysFire> were that the ones with the iron golem?
17:39 <Graznop> Nah, killed by a dog on dlvl6 
17:39 <Graznop> no loot
17:49 <NetSysFire> K2: YANI: giant players can wield butcher with only one hand
17:50 <bouquet> we already can
17:50 <bouquet> I plan to dual wield butcher and sword of kas (if I survive)
17:51 <bouquet> or butcher and lifestealer
18:00 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) completed her quest without incident, on T:55660
18:00 <NetSysFire> oh nvm then
18:03 <bouquet> giant samurai can dual wield 2H weapons.  It's my favorite race/class combo
18:04 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Mosh (Rog Hob Fem Neu) had a slippery cloak entrusted to her by Mog, on T:24688
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18:21 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) killed Cerberus, on T:57432
18:23 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) entered Gehennom, on T:57471
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18:44 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Sam Gia Fem Law) killed Juiblex, on T:58478
18:56 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Arc Hob Fem Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:28468
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20:57 <K2> NetSysFire see it's already in :P
20:57 <K2> hah
20:57 <K2> and yeah dual wielding two-handed weapons is awesome
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23:29 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Arc Hob Fem Law) had a pair of low boots entrusted to her by Quetzalcoatl, on T:33224
23:30 <krm26> The sad thing is, on turn 33k, I'm thrilled about getting some low boots
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23:35 <krm26> Of course the invincible master lich on level 11 immediately destroyed the boots
23:35 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Arc Hob Fem Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a revenant, on T:33811
23:35 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Arc Hob Fem Law) became permanently transformed into a revenant, on T:33811
23:36 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Arc Hob Fem Law), 79846 points, T:33825, killed while stuck in creature form
23:36 <krm26> ah well
23:36 <krm26> after 10k turns dicking around felt I finally had to try to survive the arch lich on 11 but no dice -- assume it was a changeling but couldn't do enough damage to it to make it transform
23:37 <krm26> Or maybe it was an actual arch-lich on 11 :-P