00:07 <K2> i may give it a go
00:08 <NetSysFire> its fun, i can recommend it
00:09 <NetSysFire> you need to unlock two roles through gameplay
00:42 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Cav Hum Mal Neu) made his first wish - "blessed greased +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:10622
01:26 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Inf Ith Fem Una), 2336 points, T:1886, killed by a blue jelly
02:42 <Not> [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 28 commits to master [+0/-1/±50] https://git.io/Ju6d7
02:42 <Not> [EvilHack] nhmall 0a1b697 - bison and flex bits were broken on NetHack-3.6
02:42 <Not> [EvilHack] nhmall 00887b6 - windows flex bison fixes36.6 bit
02:42 <Not> [EvilHack] nhmall 9ba9257 - grammar bit
02:42 <Not> [EvilHack] ... and 25 more commits.
02:43 <K2> ^ see that? the NetHack-3.6 branch was still being updated periodically
02:43 <K2> as recently as June this year
02:43 <K2> had - no - clue
02:47 <K2> 3.6.6 on NAO has been updated as well in case you're curious
02:55 <Not> [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/Ju6NA
02:55 <Not> [EvilHack] k21971 4b81332 - Update NetHack 3.6.6 official release 'latest merges' date.
03:12 <arahael> K2: EPI, perhaps if a monster dies due to poison, the resulting corpse should also be poisonious? ;)
03:13 <K2> that's crossed my mind
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03:19 <K2> prob wont do it
03:21 <arahael> Im' sure it'll nag you until you do it. ;)
03:21 <arahael> Hmm, these snow boots seem to have ESP.
03:29 <K2> why am I still up? gnite o/
03:29 <arahael> G'night!
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04:46 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] joes (Con Hum Mal Cha), 1236 points, T:3285, killed by a guard
04:48 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Cronos (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a werewolf, on T:4084
04:48 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Cronos (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 2643 points, T:4227, killed by a raven
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04:58 <Umbire> Finally uncursed Cronos's old BoH
04:58 <Umbire> SICK
04:59 <Umbire> There's a shield of reflection in here
04:59 <Umbire> And a tinning kit, hell yeah
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06:10 <Umbire> AAAAAAAA
06:10 <Umbire> I found the Ice Queen's place
06:11 <Umbire> Now I need to find some brown molds for my steed
06:12 <Umbire> This Adventurer's Journal is a great touch too
06:18 <Umbire> Oh yeah, this is gonna be hell as a Knight
06:18 <Umbire> Ice is gonna force me off my steed constantly
06:23 <Umbire> I'm gonna leave this game for a bit, at an interesting crossroads here
06:35 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 9797 points, T:5768, killed by a dwarf queen, while dressing up
06:51 <NetSysFire> trying to die fancy?
07:12 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Inf Ith Fem Una), 536 points, T:1506, killed by a sewer rat, while fainted from lack of food
07:53 <arahael> NetSysFire: I died dressing down, seemed only sensible to die whilst also dressing up. ;)  But no...  I was surprised to see myself die so quickly there.
07:58 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 108 points, T:510, killed by a falling rock
08:04 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) murdered her faithful pseudodragon, on T:608
08:04 <arahael> Shit.
08:08 <arahael> Hmm?  My cursed lamp seems to be emitting *darkness*?
08:10 <Umbire> Magic lamp
08:10 <Umbire> Don't you remember all the drow stuff K2 was working on?
08:11 <arahael> Yeah, but I thought he only reduced the radius.
08:12 <krm26> I want a few more rare, random, mostly useless bait-and-switch bags to make it a bit more exciting to actually find a sack
08:13 <krm26> Like a bag that isn't really a container but just randomly teleports anything you put in it on the same level
08:13 <Umbire> Nah
08:13 <Umbire> Besides with all the Cool Shit lying around even a regular bag is already exciting to find
08:14 <arahael> I'd love a regular bag.
08:14 <krm26> Or a bag that acts like a sack but polymorphs any gems put in it into glass
08:14 <krm26> I think evil should put weight limits on things that fit into different bags, too
08:16 <krm26> Ooh, YANI: Blessed wand of light -> Permanently reduces weights of items it zaps but 20% :-)
08:34 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] joes (Arc Hob Fem Neu), 1065 points, T:2614, killed by a pseudodragon
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08:36 <krm26> I love seeing someone new leaving bones!
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09:51 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] nabru (Bar Gia Fem Neu), 1146 points, T:806, killed by a rock gnome
10:23 <krm26> Ugh, I feel dirty...identified items in NetSysFire's bones using the dump log
10:57 <aosdict> that's taking pun based mechanics a bit too far
10:59 <aosdict> YANI: this but dipping items into a potion of levitation (which uses up the potion) and also it only affects the base weight, so dipping a boh will only lighten the 15 base weight of the bag itself
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11:56 <krm26> I really love the change to sell wands of nothing for the death/wish price
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14:03 <elenmirie> any advice as to how to get into Vecna's stronghold without guaranteed drawbridge death?
14:03 <krm26> Zap it with a wand of opening from the diagonal?
14:03 <elenmirie> I thought of that, does it work?
14:03 <krm26> Yup
14:03 <elenmirie> Thank you!
14:03 <krm26> Np!
14:03 <krm26> Good luck getting his eye, it is amazing
14:03 <elenmirie> I was afraid I would be splashed by lava if I did that :D
14:04 <krm26> Reasonable fear, but no splashing
14:05 <krm26> You on Australian server?
14:05 <elenmirie> no, european one
14:06 <elenmirie> not playing atm
14:06 <krm26> Hmm, don't see your game in progress, weird
14:06 <elenmirie> I'm not playing at the moment
14:06 <krm26> Oh, that makes sense :-)
14:06 <elenmirie> :)
14:06 <elenmirie> I was playing this morning and got stuck
14:07 <elenmirie> just now got around to asking advice
14:07 <K2> there's more than one way into vecn'a stronghold fyi
14:08 <K2> *vecna's
14:08 <elenmirie> is there, now?
14:08 <K2> always has been :)
14:08 <krm26> Is that north secret door always there? I'm not always able to find it
14:08 <elenmirie> maybe behind some dead trees?
14:08 <K2> https://www.hardfought.org/phpBB3/gallery/image/2551/source
14:08 <krm26> Omigod this run is such a vegetable, why am I still trying
14:09 <elenmirie> because vegetables are good for you!
14:09 <krm26> This always happens to me, spend countless hours babying a piece of crap until its inevitable painful death, then roll up an amazing character and stop paying attention and drown in lava
14:10 <elenmirie> lol, story of my life
14:11 <krm26> I think I have to retreat from the last level of sokoban because of a gelatinous cube, so I still have no resists to anything :-P
14:11 <elenmirie> :p
14:12 <elenmirie> gelcubes SUCK
14:13 <krm26> And no gloves, so I'm always one step away from accidentally stoning myself
14:15 <elenmirie> living life on the edge...
14:31 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Sam Hum Fem Law) destroyed krm26's ghost, the former Kunoichi, on T:18156
14:32 <krm26> Oh just F you evilhack
14:34 <Umbire> ?
14:34 <krm26> Struggling along and a gnome steps into a polymorph trap and becomes a red dragon right on top of me
14:35 <krm26> So I get to color that level in black and not go there no more
14:40 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 844 points, T:1000, zombified by an orc zombie, while praying
14:52 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Sam Hum Fem Law) destroyed NetSysFire's ghost, the former Heretic, on T:19666
14:53 <NetSysFire> krm26 scumming dumplog again? :p
14:55 <krm26> I feel so guilty
14:55 <krm26> Not only that, but it didn't really help my shitty char at all
14:55 <krm26> Although really I should blame you for your uninspiring bones :-)
14:58 <Umbire> :V
14:59 <elenmirie> heh
15:00 <elenmirie> you were definitely trying to kill me by dying without being in possession of better stuff!
15:00 <krm26> I mean, Occam's razor tells us that's what happened
15:03 <elenmirie> What did Occam know about razors? I mean, he was just some old guy with a beard1
15:08 <aosdict> YASI: artifact scalpel Occam's Razor = apply to self to restore any lost charisma, has a 'simplifying' attack that deals double damage to overly complicated monsters
15:09 <krm26> No, if you attack with occam's razor it gives you the simplest nethack solution, killing yourself
15:17 <elenmirie> lol
15:17 <elenmirie> the simplest and most logical solution
15:18 <bhaak> It's a strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
15:18 <elenmirie> yes.
15:19 <krm26> Grr this altar has used 2000 turns and refuses to give me my first sacrifice gift so I can actually kill stuff
15:20 <krm26> Minetown is a real screw as your only altar
15:20 <K2> would - you - like - to - play - a - game?
15:20 <Pinkbeast> krm26: s/Minetown/the Valley/
15:21 <krm26> I can't hack clearing Sokoban or descend past Minetown because of a poly'd red dragon, the Valley is not on the menu
15:22 <krm26> Has there ever been a movie featuring even the slightest bit of computer use that didn't turn it into utter garbage?
15:22 <krm26> I wanted to flay myself with a spoon to get clean after seeing The Net, or whatever the heck that Sandra Bullock film was called
15:24 <bhaak> but it had Sandra Bullock in it :)
15:24 <krm26> I always try to pretend that instead of software movies are featuring plumbing, and envision someone with a butane torch hacking a pipe to redirect sewage while dramatic music plays
15:24 <bhaak> what do you have against the matrix?
15:25 <krm26> "HAH! The idiots used 1.5" PVC! I'll have this done in 10 seconds!"
15:25 <Pinkbeast> For one thing when he finally taps into the internal representation of the Matrix he and the corridor with the two agents don't look like this: ###&#&####@#### 
15:25 <krm26> Did the Matrix have computers? I mean, other than the film's context? 
15:25 <Pinkbeast> ... possibly because an @ sign would have more facial expression
15:25 <K2> yeah
15:25 <krm26> The only computer crap in the Matrix I remember is the dumb green text
15:25 <bhaak> Matrix Reloaded even featured a real ssh exploit
15:26 <K2> Mr. Robot
15:26 <bhaak> Tron
15:26 <K2> not a movie but....
15:26 <Pinkbeast> TBF the middle one did make him a good casting decision since the CGI duplicates were all pretty wooden-faced and therefore resembled him more closely than an actor with movable facial features.
15:26 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Gno Fem Cha), 337 points, T:3232, killed by a killer bee
15:26 <bhaak> K2: but?
15:27 <krm26> Yeah, Mr Robot was about as good as you could ask for
15:27 <K2> ^ that
15:27 <bhaak> K2: oh, never mind.
15:27 <amateurhour> I stopped watching that show because I got really annoyed
15:27 <K2> brb
15:27 <bhaak> I haven't seen "Hackers" in ages
15:27 <krm26> This weird conflation of "hacking" and "programming" always bothered me too
15:28 <bhaak> I don't remember if it was any good
15:28 <krm26> It is like dumping legislators and trial lawyers in the same scummy pond
15:28 <aosdict> krm26: if you talk to old-timers, they will say that "hacking" used to be far more benign and it got stolen to mean breaking into computers
15:28 <krm26> Indeed, I'm one of those old timers
15:29 <aosdict> well then why is the question why they're conflated? they meant much the same thing to begin with
15:29 <Pinkbeast> I'm a Unix beard but I fear that ship has sailed
15:29 <bhaak> krm26: well, you know how boring programming looks like from the outside. but there are several movies or documentaries for example about Silicon Valley 
15:30 <krm26> They were never the same -- originally hacking meant "writing shitty code to get something done fast"
15:30 <bhaak> krm26: FWIW, Tron is about a game programmer that went rogue cracker after his company stole his games :)
15:31 <bhaak> oh oh, Superman III.
15:31 <krm26> I was always sorry hacking won the linguistic war with kludging
15:32 <elenmirie> there was a movie a long time ago, Stargate I think, where they dug up an old portal and then found a buried floppy disc in the sand beside it
15:32 <elenmirie> I came very close to suicide
15:33 <Pinkbeast> I think hacking has meant more things (including non-kludge programming) but I'd have to eg dig up a copy of the Jargon File from before ESR went completely fucking insane to cite that to
15:33 <elenmirie> the rest of the movie was awful too, egyptian gods and stuff
15:34 <elenmirie> Pinkbeast: yeah, hacking used to just mean coding, and good coding
15:34 <bhaak> elenmirie: I don't think the floppy is in the original movie. but some Stargate SG-1 movies feature time travel
15:34 <elenmirie> bhaak: oh yes it was
15:34 <elenmirie> I'm old enough to remember it! :D
15:34 <Pinkbeast> Apropos of nothing much, "keyboards on the wall? It must be THE FUTURE!"
15:35 <elenmirie> implants in my head? It must be Facebook!
15:35 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] lacca (Inf Ith Fem Una), 2349 points, T:2706, killed by a wererat
15:35 <krm26> What's a good age-check? Anybody here ever use a PDP-8?
15:36 <elenmirie> PDP 11/70 was my earliest in that series
15:36 <Pinkbeast> I've used _a_ PDP but I couldn't tell you which.
15:37 <krm26> Yeah, I chose PDP-8 because plenty of people used PDP-11s into the 90s
15:37 <krm26> You really have to be born before 1970 to have ever screwed around much with a PDP-8
15:37 <elenmirie> who has used a 300 baud dumb terminal?
15:38 <krm26> Moi (well, not 300 baud, I think the worst dumb terminal I ever used did about 100 60 bit words per second)
15:38 <elenmirie> well, I was, but I never used that one
15:38 <Pinkbeast> Yeah, this was circa '85
15:38 <elenmirie> I started uni in 1981
15:39 <krm26> In '85 I was using the big iron, a CDC-6000 series
15:39 <elenmirie> we had TRS-80s in the maths lab
15:39 <Pinkbeast> My bicycle is from the 60s, how's that?
15:39 <elenmirie> that's a very old bicycle!
15:39 <krm26> And playing disc golf in the hall outside the machine room with old hard drive platters that were 30" diameter
15:40 <elenmirie> then the next year we had IBM PCs without hard drives
15:40 <Pinkbeast> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/bikes/triumph.jpg # I'm cheating, it's older than me
15:40 <krm26> If you rolled them just right they would go between the fire doors and fall down the stairs
15:40 <elenmirie> lol
15:40 <elenmirie> I'm sure my dad had a bike just like that!
15:41 <elenmirie> Mum's looked the same but the bar was slanted, which made it a woman's bike
15:41 <elenmirie> lol
15:41 <elenmirie> bikes have genders!
15:41 <Pinkbeast> Very likely - Raleigh bought the name when Triumph got out of the motorcycle business, so it's really just a Raleigh and they were still pretty dominant.
15:41 <Pinkbeast> Well, skirts don't go with top tubes, anyhow
15:42 <elenmirie> exactly, it was because of skirts
15:42 <elenmirie> Christ knows what the Scots did
15:42 <Pinkbeast> My mother still rides a mixte but she's getting too un-bendy to step over it
15:42 <Pinkbeast> Scotsmen care less if you see their arses, I guess
15:42 <elenmirie> I'm sure the ones my parents had were Raleighs
15:43 <elenmirie> lol 
15:43 <Pinkbeast> If you've got a Raleigh Raleigh you can look up the frame number and get a year, but all I've got is a guess based on how many oddball Raleigh-specific threadings it's got
15:44 <elenmirie> oi, like my piano
15:44 <elenmirie> but the bikes my parents had were sold in the Great Yard Sale when we moved to Korea
15:44 <elenmirie> so no more bikes
15:44 <elenmirie> That was in 1978
15:45 <krm26> Omigod you WIN game, I am so fed up with this -- gonna go die to the red dragon
15:46 <elenmirie> so the Dark Lord wins...
15:46 <elenmirie> and it's YOUR FAULT!
15:46 <elenmirie> another universe bites the dust
15:47 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] post163 (Wiz Orc Fem Cha), 474 points, T:1536, killed by a giant ant
15:51 <Umbire> If I can bounce back from fighting a player orc wizard with bloody DSM I feel like you could salvage this
15:51 <krm26> If I could just get Snickersnee I think I could progress, but the altar refuses
15:51 <elenmirie> keep trying
15:52 <krm26> As I said, almost 3000 turns now with no love, I can't take it any more
15:52 <elenmirie> aw...
15:52 <elenmirie> hugs
15:52 <krm26> Luckily I can go make dinner shortly
15:52 <krm26> We'll see if I take a break before or after the red dragon eats me
15:52 <elenmirie> I'm already on the outside of dinner
15:53 <elenmirie> take a break now, your outlook may improve
15:53 <krm26> Ooohhhh crap that drum was a drum of earthquake
15:53 <elenmirie> you destroye the altar?
15:53 <elenmirie> *destroyed
15:54 <krm26> Hah, no, that would be hysterical tho
15:54 <krm26> I'm one level down trying to find a way to deal with a red dragon 50x more powerful than me
15:54 <elenmirie> the gods really are out to get you!
15:54 <krm26> Thanks to the everloving gnome-in-a-poly-trap
15:55 <elenmirie> erf, nasty
15:55 <krm26> That seems to have scared him tho
15:56 <elenmirie> oh, good, you can get past him
15:56 <Umbire> When in doubt, scare 'em off
15:56 <elenmirie> my best philosophy!
15:58 <elenmirie> my horn playing is so bad that even Death runs away.
16:13 <krm26> I played nethack for a decade and a half before I figured out that scaring things can be helpful
16:16 <amateurhour> it was elenmirie that taught me about scare tools iirc, I'm still grateful 
16:17 <krm26> YANI: artifact roomba pet, hoovers up everything it walks over that weighs 20 or less, will always fall into adjacent pits, water, or lava
16:23 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Gno Fem Cha), 8997 points, T:7524, killed by a crocodile
16:25 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Cav Hum Mal Neu) completed Sokoban, acquiring a magic marker, on T:14776
16:36 <elenmirie> amateurhour: aw, thanks!
16:37 <elenmirie> I think I learned from watching someone (can't remember who, sorry!) cross the plane of air beating a drum
16:37 <elenmirie> nothing laid an airy tentacle on them
16:38 <elenmirie> considering how I had always struggled to cross the plane of air, I got myself a drum, or a horn
16:39 <elenmirie> then when 3.6 came around, raisse was the first that I know of to discover that a bugle worked as well
16:41 <amateurhour> that's pretty awesome, I guess these days there's not many things that can be added in secret
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18:27 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Gno Fem Cha), 1990 points, T:3354, killed by a warg
18:34 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Hum Fem Cha), 481 points, T:943, killed by a mountain dwarf
18:42 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Sam Hum Fem Law) had Snickersnee bestowed upon her by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:24029
18:58 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] post163 (Wiz Gia Fem Cha), 748 points, T:1111, killed by a falling object
19:04 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Gia Fem Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3695
19:08 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Gia Fem Cha) destroyed bouquet's ghost, the former Conjurer, on T:4080
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20:04 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Gia Fem Cha), 4453 points, T:6467, killed by a soldier ant
20:32 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Sam Hum Fem Law) completed Sokoban, acquiring a silver amulet of reflection, on T:25906
20:52 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Sam Hum Fem Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:27092
21:21 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Cav Hum Mal Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:17480
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21:37 <krm26> UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUgh: sting eat brains, butt eat brains -- I love shambling horrors
21:37 <krm26> K2: Should the monster lookup really say "Is male, female, genderless..."?
21:40 <K2> why shouldnt it?
21:42 <krm26> Just making sure it was intentional and not a bug
21:42 <K2> its intentional
21:43 <krm26> I hate all these brain-eating attacks that there is not even a feeble grease defense against
21:43 <K2> hah damn you really got the jackpot there
21:44 <krm26> Wish I could fire crossbow bolts from a bow with a slight penalty
21:44 <krm26> Never seen such an arrow-poor early game -- got about 10 arrows to rub together right now and the horror is blocking me at DL13, pre-quest
21:44 <krm26> (sammie)
21:45 <krm26> Got 7 fire charges between wands and horns, maybe that will be enough
22:48 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Cav Hum Mal Neu) destroyed the invisible bouquet's ghost, the former Thaumaturge, on T:22660
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22:58 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Cav Hum Mal Neu) had Keolewa bestowed upon him by Ishtar, on T:23500
23:03 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Cav Hum Mal Neu) destroyed Arahael's ghost, the former Initiate, on T:23793
23:34 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Cav Hum Mal Neu) had a mithril spear entrusted to him by Ishtar, on T:27195
23:50 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Pacra (Cav Hum Mal Neu) killed Aphrodite, on T:28930