00:10 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Pri Ith Fem Cha), 1764 points, T:1865, killed by a dingo 00:13 -!- cccrow has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:23 -!- Arahael has joined #evilhack 00:49 -!- Umbire has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:49 -!- Umbire_ has joined #evilhack 00:50 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Sam Gia Mal Law), 14865 points, T:6305, killed by a giant mummy 00:51 -!- Umbire_ is now known as Umbire 02:40 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) destroyed dbanethacker's ghost, the former Fighter, on T:5506 02:51 Oh, worrying. There's a "4" on this level. 02:51 Ah, a lep. 02:52 *chameleon. 03:54 -!- Umbire has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:20 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) destroyed dbanethacker the giant zombie, and former Fighter, on T:9614 04:23 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) destroyed dbanethacker the giant zombie, and former Fighter, on T:9683 04:26 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) destroyed dbanethacker the giant zombie, and former Fighter, on T:9781 04:28 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) destroyed dbanethacker the giant zombie, and former Fighter, on T:10046 04:30 Hmm. Odd. Found two different magical grey stones. Neither of them is loadstones. 05:16 K2: EPI: Items should have slightly reduced effectiveness when they're not formally identified. 05:16 (You aren't using them properly if you don't even know what they are!) 05:19 -!- amateurhour has joined #evilhack 05:31 -!- cccrow has joined #evilhack 05:55 *sigh*. A djinni pet. 06:09 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 06:32 !lastgame krm26 06:32 VaderFLAG: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/krm26/evilhack/dumplog/1620170998.evil.html 06:33 oof 06:45 -57AC and 200hp shoulda been enough for a surprise yeenoghu gate, I wonder what happened 06:45 also full healing in open inventory 06:49 So few moves too, even though very fast 06:49 Wonder what's going on there 06:55 In a 0.6 game a gated-in yeenoghu killed hothraxxa and later nearly killed me when I reached the bones 06:55 Those missile attacks can hit you hard 06:58 Still, 200hp? 06:59 200 is still on the low side 06:59 [hdf-us] [evil] Drizossk (Con Hum Mal Cha), 563 points, T:1390, killed by a rabid dog 06:59 not much buffer 07:00 -!- cccrow has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:02 this must be RNG, but since I have reached 30 every wraith corpse I've eaten has rotted away 07:02 I hope it's not some mechanic 07:03 Ah, it was RNG 07:04 Nice, I can keep increasing my HP/Pw 07:05 It's possible their hp was low when the fight started 07:05 I'm more puzzled by the hero/demon number of moves ratio 07:05 Also THIS Pegasus is frozen by Yeenoghu. is why riding in hell is a bad idea 07:06 krm comes on irc sometimes so you might be able to ask what happened 07:06 amateurhour: Message from cccrow at 2021-05-07 19:42 EDT: -fcommon should be applied on src/Makefile 07:07 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 07:07 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 07:08 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack 07:09 -!- cccrow has joined #evilhack 07:15 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Kni Orc Fem Cha) killed Pestilence, on T:85606 07:15 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Kni Orc Fem Cha) killed the saddled White Horse, on T:85608 07:18 [hdf-us] [evil] Drizossk (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 1740 points, T:2499, killed by a soldier ant 07:19 -!- cccrow has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:23 -!- cccrow has joined #evilhack 07:29 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Kni Orc Fem Cha) put Death down for a little nap, on T:85701 07:31 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Kni Orc Fem Cha) destroyed the Pale Horse, on T:85703 07:39 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Kni Orc Fem Cha) killed Famine, on T:85747 07:39 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Kni Orc Fem Cha) killed the Black Horse, on T:85748 07:43 [hdf-us] [evil] VaderFLAG (Kni Orc Fem Cha), 6179741 points, T:85775, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/V/VaderFLAG/evilhack/dumplog/1619980789.evil.html 07:44 [hdf-us] [evil] Drizossk (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 4929 points, T:3872, killed by a yeti 07:45 -!- cccrow has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:46 woohoo first 0.7 asc! 07:47 \o/ 07:52 A moment of silence for Solaire, who was left behind, in statue form, in the sanctuary. 07:53 -!- cccrow has joined #evilhack 07:53 RIP Solaire 07:55 the Wizard of Yendor (6 times) 07:55 moments of silence are pretty easy on irc 07:55 I worry about the wizard, if he steals the idol I can't cast spells 07:56 what did you find more difficult in particular VaderFLAG? 07:56 the Wizard is the biggest jump 07:57 I have no idea how I'd kill them on an ordinary non-giant monk honestly 07:58 might have to break poly and try slime them or something whack if I get that far 07:58 There are some classes that I wouldn't even think of trying to ascend right now with my usual conduct restrictions 07:58 I haven't played the new buffed up monk so can't speak to that yet 07:59 it's not that much of a buff don't get too excited :P 07:59 advertised like evilhack monks suddenly became slashem or dnh monks or something :P 07:59 well evilhack monks are already pretty ahead of vanilla 08:00 vanilla monks were buffed recently if that counts 08:00 no more janky damage output where every few hits just do 1 08:02 https://github.com/NetHack/NetHack/commit/c1c515af9f2528b3d26a93fc8b708454a3153ed1 08:02 oh wow it was July, time has really flown 08:11 "recently" 08:38 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Inf Dem Fem Una) murdered her faithful purple worm, on T:55687 08:41 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:41 congrats VaderFLAG \o/ 09:02 that vanilla commit 09:02 hmm 09:09 \o/ 09:11 so how was it 09:12 good and bad stuff, hit me 09:12 * amateurhour hits K2 09:13 owie 09:13 The new demon lairs are great - though the lemure rooms really reveal a sick and depraved mind 09:13 hah 09:14 not my creation but i did borrow it, so... 09:14 racial priests is a lot of fun but will take some getting used to the icons for me 09:14 The Demon buff is good, though my objections to orcus remain 09:14 * K2 nods 09:15 even with sick resist demogorgon was a badass 09:15 you notice the tentacle hits vs claw or just 'hit' ? 09:15 You mean did his creepy slimy appendages gross me out? yes 09:16 I actually don't remember the text from the fight 09:16 https://i.pinimg.com/originals/30/e4/41/30e4414ffca7fa6b81538b03b0520fd7.jpg 09:16 Just reading the pokedex on it 09:16 ^ demo 09:16 I did not see the requirements for Vecna's eye before killing it 09:16 That seems unfair to non-neutrals 09:17 But I don't know what the eye does, so maybe it's not a big deal 09:17 i dont understand 09:17 what's unfair to non-neutrals 09:17 Says vecna needs to be decapitated to get the eye, implying you need vorpal blade? 09:17 oh i need to change that 09:17 was that a commit message or a comment in the code? 09:18 I don't recall 09:18 Maybe comment 09:18 Either way, no eye for me 09:18 originally i was going to make it so you had to vorpal vecna, but thats no longer the case 09:18 But the robe drop is sweet 09:18 I like that 09:18 *vorpal vecna to get the eye 09:18 did he death drop it? 09:18 He death dropped the robe and nothing else 09:19 ok. its a 50/50 chance he death drops the Eye 09:19 oh ok 09:19 I tohught maybe it was in his crystal chest 09:19 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack 09:19 Anyway wishless folks like me will love the robe drop 09:19 brb just leaving my eye in a chest 09:19 Well you know like a phylactery 09:19 stick your soul away in an eye 09:20 heh 09:20 haha 09:20 yeah i thought adding the corroded robe was a nice touch 09:20 Can't comment on Vecna difficulty, I got super lucky and had a perfect build for him 09:20 undead in ancient rotted rags 09:20 and overprepared 09:20 ^ no such thing 09:21 Is the robe always drain resist or was that just my luck? 09:21 it always is 09:21 ok good 09:21 so even if you're going for wishless, genocideless, etc there's some nice loot to go for 09:22 artifacts nonwithstanding 09:22 It's a fun branch 09:22 thank you 09:22 now if you get rid of oilskin hats then Vecna will actually be meaningful :D 09:22 was the final vecna level alright? that went through a couple re-designs before i felt ok with it 09:23 hah oilskin hats 09:24 I didn't explore the whole level - only found the one entrance to the... tower? lair maze? whatever it is 09:25 I think my only objection to the vecna level doesn't have to do with vecna so much as it does teleport-moving monsters 09:26 The change that made liches and alhoons not be able to fly across the whole map to and from you was a good one, though it doesn't work well for when they're fleeing 09:26 and demons I guess for that matter 09:26 not sure what the flag is that gives them that ability 09:26 Seeing the 5 or & slowly jump to you is terrifying and great, but they go totally bonkers when running away 09:27 yeah 09:27 there's an M3 flag that liches have, they want the book 09:27 (of the dead) 09:28 I'm not sure what the solution to that stuff is but it's relevant to Rodney now too 09:29 how they behave when wounded they tele away to heal, that's vanilla behavior. their prime spot to tele to would be the upsatirs 09:29 upstairs 09:29 Porting to the upstairs to hang there is fine* though alhoons don't do that 09:29 Sorry, what I meant to say is 09:29 If they want to flee and you're on the upstairs 09:29 They go nuts 09:30 Chasing a lich to the upstairs to kill it is fine and seems ok 09:30 But you can't chase a randomly teleporting monster 09:30 yeah they will tele all over 09:30 that was by design, that behavior was pulled in from sporkhack 09:31 It seems odd that when they want to get to you they can only move X squares but when running away they can go dozens 09:32 ./* The Eye of Vecna, which can only be obtained by decapitating 09:32 Vecna, removing his head from his body as he is destroyed before 09:32 the rest of his body crumbles to dust */ 09:32 Yeah that's the one 09:32 i put that comment in artilist.h 09:32 when i was first making vecna 09:32 brb 09:32 i need to change that comment 09:32 oh you know what would be cool 09:32 100% chance the eye drops if vecna is killed via beheading 09:40 what is special about vecna's robe? 09:41 ah drain resistance 09:41 si 09:42 its rotted, meant to simulate ancient rags for old undead geezer 09:42 but if you take the time to investigate... :) 09:43 brb 09:47 -!- qt has joined #evilhack 09:51 I fought Rodney 3 times for 6 kills total. First was a double trouble, second was two double troubles, and in the planes he was solo 09:51 The second one very nearly killed me 09:52 had to burn a lot of stuff I was saving for astral 09:52 And now I regret grousing about how he was too easy all those months ago in here 09:53 so you're to blame 09:53 thanks VaderFLAG 09:54 Well, he's the most challenging thing in the dungeon now, as it should be. 09:55 But boy 09:55 I mean I don't think it should be the most challenging thing, it's not a one-off encounter 09:56 I know I'm in the minority opinion :P 09:56 I don't totally disagree with you 09:56 Having to fight him multiple times and multiple times within those multiples makes him really hard to balance 09:56 its why i didnt boost his hit points 09:56 cuz you'll encounter him more than once 09:56 Welllllll 09:57 His effective hp went up by a lot due to the AC boost 09:57 He's very hard to hit now 09:57 the ac boost is minimal 09:57 amateurhour: would you agree with "he should be the most challenging thing in the dungeon taking into account that you fight him multiple times"? 09:57 He was in the -20s every time I fought him 09:57 like, the respawning is part of the challenge 09:57 AND he loves to heal 09:57 well who doesn't love to heal 09:57 If I wasn't level draining him constantly I would n't have come close to killing him 09:58 ^ thats key to meleeing rodney 09:58 in vanilla too 09:58 -!- cccrow has left #evilhack 09:58 you drop his effective level, the range of spells he can cast drops 09:58 while I think they should be more difficult than vanilla aosdict I still think a single really difficult encounter is a better change than buffing rodney 09:58 like elder priest in the sanctum or something 09:58 wait, the key to meleeing rodney is to use drain life, when a lot of meleers aren't good spellcasters? 09:58 Before, any respectable twoweapon could kill him 09:58 Now, I wouldn't try him without vorpal or stormbringer 09:59 aosdict there are a handful of artifact weapons that can drain levels 09:59 moreso in evilhack 09:59 yeah just get artifact weapons 4head 09:59 rip artifactless illiterate 09:59 * amateurhour cries in monk 09:59 drama 09:59 At the end of my 2nd encounter with him, every piece of my equipment was level 2 or 3 degraded, including dragonbane 10:00 and he had vaporized 1-2 dozen rings and wands 10:00 brb 10:00 hah was his weapon shock? 10:00 yeah that should go 10:01 that's just sadistic 10:01 1-2 dozen? really? 10:01 heh 10:02 my test monks do fine against rodney fwiw 10:02 NicePatchIdea: extrinsic resist protects your invent from damage 10:02 (stolen from dnh) 10:02 (stolen from xnh) 10:03 (stolen from fiqhack) 10:03 nice 10:03 patch 10:03 idea 10:06 VaderFLAG: what's your problem with Orcus again? 10:06 its the wand of orcus 10:07 oh hell yeah vaderFLAG!! i missed it 10:07 congrats 10:07 > Create monster spells 'polymorph' (?) 10:08 grand tour? 10:08 holy hell if that bypasses MR the game would be unplayable lol 10:08 My orcus objection is that the wand drains too much maxhp per hit 10:09 Part of why I lost so many rings/wands was that his mystery apperance was in the middle of a level, so even with the drains he had no trouble summoning nasties, teleporting away to heal, then coming back to swipe me a couple times. Plus there being two of them 10:11 I feel like giving him a amulet of MR is redundant with the high AC to avoid easy wand of death kills, he'll dodge >30% of wand hits with the AC he's rolling up 10:11 Of course there's the spell too but 10:11 Just coming from the melee role perspective 10:11 i gotcha 10:11 in vanilla his ac is typically -8 to -10 10:12 going to -19 to -21 isnt too big of a stretch, typically -30 or more is where the to hit problems really kick in 10:12 So I dont typically wand of death rodney in evilhack 10:12 i understand rodney having a chance for a shock based weapon 10:13 Maybe if I am playing a low damage class, but most of the time I melee time to death 10:13 VaderFLAG you still could, the chance of him appearing with an amulet of mr is only 50% 10:13 The AC plus the heals means it took WAY more damage to kill him 10:13 its still a valid first attack (zap wand of death) 10:13 When I was close to death I did try to zap him a few times, he dodged them all 10:14 after probing him to ensure no amulet 10:14 heh 10:14 rodney can breakdance 10:14 Also he has the asmodeus special on steroids, which I mostly avoided due to level draining 10:14 Without level drain, oof 10:15 rodney doesnt have a special cold attack 10:15 Sure, he has ALL the elemental attacks 10:15 no 10:15 and he can vulnerable you to all of them! 10:15 that yes 10:15 he won't fireball acid blast cone of cold? 10:16 but asmo's cold attack, that different from the fire/ice bolt spell 10:16 question, what is the max value for Pw? 10:16 9999 i think 10:16 The spells are lower damage than asmodeus' thing, sure 10:16 thx K2 10:17 Hmm I wonder how the vulnerability timeout compares to rodney's reappearnce min turns 10:17 i can make some small tweaks to rodneys kit 10:17 but this whole conversation about the wizard of yendor tells me i was on the right track 10:18 Oh it's definitely an improvement 10:18 I don't know if it's too much or not yet 10:18 * amateurhour grimaces 10:18 I mean, I survived, right? 10:18 O_O 10:18 true :) 10:18 I just think about the poor caveman or priest or non-wizard caster that has to fight him 10:18 potions of paralyzation are your friend 10:19 speaking of I got SUPER lucky that he didn't vaporize my free action 10:19 what's the odds of hitting with those with -20ac? 10:19 lost many rings and their backup rings 10:19 but he didn't get free action 10:19 wield the potion amateurhour 10:19 yeah but what's the odds of hitting 10:19 you have to hit to smash them with it iirc? 10:20 i dont know off the top of my head 10:20 that's a great question 10:20 and you have to have free action not get destroyed or you might commit sudoku by selfpara haha 10:25 -!- mode/EvilBot [+Zi] by EvilBot 10:25 -!- tolkien.freenode.net changed the topic on #evilhack to: EvilHack: a NetHack variant ¤ https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack ¤ version 0.7.0 availble for public play on #hardfought ¤ see https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/EvilHack for gameplay information ¤ Bug tracker and future development ideas - https://www.hardfought.org/etherpad/p/EvilHack 10:26 rodney being tougher is here to stay. but i can make some adjustments 10:27 I don't think you need to change much 10:27 It's a big improvement 10:28 are infidels primary casters? I'm curious how mobileuser does against him 10:28 yeah 10:28 reflection spell is a big fart on them 10:28 infidel casters are as good as wizards when it comes to attack spells 10:28 yeah infidels are considered primary casters 10:28 at least with MR you can still overpower via magic missile 10:29 But reflection spell seemed to negate it entirely 10:30 (another thing that makes orcus particularly nasty for low hp roles) 10:30 but if he steals my Idol then I can't cast anymore 10:30 no, amulet 10:30 I got my mirror stolen a bunch but never the amulet 10:30 K2 I don't understand? 10:31 one sec lemme check something before i answer 10:34 ok 10:34 mobileuser - if you dont have the AoY in your possesion, correct you cant cast spells 10:34 once you imbue the idol via saccing the AoY, that goes away 10:34 you can drop the idol and still cast 10:34 \o/ 10:35 idol has nothing to do with not being able to cast 10:35 that is good to know 10:35 idol inherits the AoY properties 10:35 i knew that, but i was like 'i beter verify before i answer' hah 10:35 so that could have been the case 10:35 yeah 10:35 *better 10:36 beter is the dutch word for better 10:36 beeter 10:36 lol 10:36 more betterly 10:36 meer beterlijk 10:36 heh 10:41 i dont see how a robe + pointy hat is giving rodney an extra 10 points of AC 10:41 the robe/hat he gets isnt enchanted 10:41 his base AC is unchanged from vanilla 10:41 maybe it's a bobble hat :) 10:41 lol 10:43 oh shit it is enchanted 10:44 He might be casting protection too? 10:44 he can yeah but he wont spawn with the spell already in effect 10:45 I just assume most of these teleporting cowards will pop away to heal and protection and reflection themselves before returning 10:46 oh i see why its enchanted 10:46 rodney is flagged M2_PRINCE 10:46 Oh that gets all your gear boosted automatically? 10:46 nice, my illithid wiz just found a +4 bone gauntlets of power :) 10:46 How do I get M2_PRINCE on my next game :D 10:47 Wow what a find 10:47 My only illithid ascension was thanks to early gauntlets of power. TENTACLE PUNCH 10:47 so obviously no chance of a weaponless conduct in evil now 10:48 wow qt nice 10:48 hothraxxa not true 10:48 my test monks do fine against rodney 10:48 lowering the headroom so much once rodney is in the game is a horrible idea imo 10:48 they arent even maxed out 10:48 VaderFLAG - https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/blob/master/src/makemon.c#L3363 10:49 Are your test monks already on the upstairs? 10:49 no 10:49 its not a walk in the park battle but they manage 10:49 they hit every time 10:49 you've taken a test monk all the way from killign rodney to ascension? 10:50 no, but i've ascended a monk in evilhack. i might know what i'm talking about :) 10:50 Can rodney be put to sleep? I don't see sleep resist in his stats. Does Monster MR 100 prevent it? 10:50 i've also ascended evilhack once or twice 10:51 Never thought about snoozing him before 10:51 hothraxxa not as a monk you havent 10:51 no but i got two of them to astral 10:52 hey K2 what conditions are you using with test monks that seems fine? 10:52 Oh you'd have to level drain rodney for sleep spell to work nm 10:52 because I just wizmode tried taking them on and got demolished 10:52 typical asc kit, exp level 20, grand master skill 10:52 I had -42 ac, xlvl 15, grandmaster skill 10:52 dragonbane and cloak of MR etc 10:53 they double trouble'd and it was pretty much gg from that point 10:53 yeah that can happen 10:53 the point, i think, is not that you can or can't ascend, it's that it's now too unpleasant to try 10:54 i'm not doing that, sorry 10:54 rofl 10:54 killed one of them (after wizard lifesaving a few times) they summoned juiblex and double trouble'd again 10:54 Rodney summoned jubilex?? 10:54 no they cant 10:54 summon nasties summoned demon which gated in joob 10:54 oh ok 10:54 wow that's not great luck 10:55 Oh yeah rodney summons demons now 10:55 instant double trouble seems like game over? 10:55 A specific demon summon spell? 10:55 Maybe that was a ki-rin, hard to tell 10:55 But something was sending agents of MML or whatever 10:55 so lets recap - rodney has a chance for mr, a shock weapon, and slighty better AC. he's now too powerful 10:56 cleric spells 10:56 ^ hothraxxa 10:56 the healing is a big deal 10:56 VaderFLAG all spellcasting monsters do that 10:56 the healing, reflection, protection, vulnerability are big deals then :P 10:56 hmmmm 10:56 @e?wizard of yendor 10:56 Wizard of Yendor (@) | Lvl: 30 | Diff: 35 | Spd: 12 | Res: fire poison | Confers: fire poison | MR: 100 | Generates: unique | AC: -8 | Attacks: 2d8 weapon physical, 2d12 claw amulet steal, 0d0 cast spell, 0d0 cast clerical | Alignment: -128 | Flags: omnivore, flies, breathless, regenerates, seeinvis, teleports, nopoly, covetous, infravisible 10:56 ^ k2 10:56 Ok you added the AD_CLR or whatever, right? 10:57 yeah 10:57 Was he AD_SPELL x2 before? 10:57 or did he get an extra cast per turn? Or can he only do one or the other? 10:57 It sure seemed like hwas chain casting stuff 10:57 in vanilla rodney has the one ad_spel 10:57 Because if he gets one of each per turn, then that's not just a broader range of spells it's casting twice as many 10:58 So lots more heals since he can summon nasties AND heal 10:58 mspec was changed too 10:58 higher level spellcasters sometimes dont have the timeout 10:58 But maybe he can only choose one of those things to do per turn 10:58 i thought i made that conservative but maybe not 10:59 Even if you change nothing else about rodney, giving him 2x the spells to cast per move is a big big buff 10:59 man I was against the buff when I thought it was just giving them reflection and MR 10:59 lol 11:00 so you know how you'll see a monster cast a spell and the feedback is something like 'points and curses' 11:00 that's the timeout right? 11:00 its because mspec yeah 11:00 Yeah Rodney didn't seem to do much of that 11:00 WHich he usually does, I think 11:00 for higher level spellcasters, there's a chance mspec is 0 11:00 per turn 11:00 That's why he was just owning my armor 11:01 Could destroy armor every turn 11:01 https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/blob/master/src/mcastu.c#L369 11:01 thats the change i made 11:01 i may need to revisit that 11:01 Wait, the timeout is general, not per spell? 11:02 did you test it many times or did you do just one 11:02 amateurhour yeah i just make thinga and go yolo 11:02 hahaha 11:02 of course i tested it 11:02 but i cant test every single scenario 11:02 I always thought the point and curse timeout was because they tried to cast X when the timeout on X hadn't expired, not more generally 11:02 I'm not asking if you tested it (I believe you) 11:02 otherwise nothing would get released 11:03 I'm asking if you did it quite a few times, trying to figure out if you got some lucky runs or if I'm just getting loads of unlucky goes in a row 11:03 I like the idea of him having AD_SPEL and no timeout, he's the freakin' wizard he should be able to channel something nasty every turn 11:04 But 2 spells per turn with no timeout is a lot 11:04 Though I like the idea of spell-specific timeouts 11:04 can only cast acid blast every X turns 11:04 i'll test things a few times under different conditions but i dont have time to run the gauntlet of scenarios to see what could happen 11:04 But that would require tuning every spell's timeout which seems like a lot of work 11:04 https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/blob/master/src/mcastu.c#L383 <--- that needs to change i think 11:05 gotcha, I don't mean to come across as snarky lol, I can see how it'd be read that way 11:05 hugs 11:05 the real testing happens after release 11:05 Is this why demogorgon seemed nastier than normal? He could cast every turn? 11:05 yup 11:06 Mephistopheles was a beast too 11:06 he's a demon lord 11:06 so he'd fall under the rn2(3) bit 11:06 But I never fought him before so no comparison point 11:06 oh I see 11:07 is that random number called per cast? Or is it per monster? 11:07 i'll make some adjustments today 11:07 per turn 11:07 ok so you never know when the next spell is coming got it 11:08 unless it's 0 11:08 then you know 11:08 and unless it's 0 and the wizard 11:08 then you know 2 are coming per turn 11:08 too bad the AD_SPEL and AD_CLRC are on the same timeout system 11:08 If he could do one or the other each turn it would be neat 11:09 rodney needed a buff, thats clear. i may have gone overboard a bit i admit 11:09 or have a random number turn timeout for each to rotate or whatever 11:09 They're good buffs 11:09 He's scary 11:09 He should be 11:09 Might be a little much 11:09 yeah 11:09 But I think that's a function of the weird way vanilla does spellcasting 11:09 So many more spells in evilhack and broader monster spellcasting 11:10 i'd be lying if i said i fully understand all of it 11:10 does rodney do the fiq thing and prefer double trouble? 11:10 no 11:10 VaderFLAG said he did it twice of three encounters 11:10 RNG 11:11 when rodney decides to cast dbl trouble is unchanged from vanilla 11:11 It will effectively be more double trouble then we're used to since it takes longer to kill him 11:11 potentially yes 11:11 potentially. hah 11:12 there are no certainties 11:12 That's the combo that he was pulling on me in my near death. One would sit on the stairs and heal while the other would electrify my wands and cast destroy armor 11:12 the RNG looks down upon us and laughs 11:12 And they'd rotate the open spot next to me 11:12 working as designed, VaderFLAG 11:12 I learned the hard way they he'll follow you UP stairs but not down 11:13 hothraxxa he does that in vanilla too ya know 11:13 yes, this is just like vanilla 11:14 but i get it, something went from easy to hard. i expected pushback to some degree :) 11:14 wiki says rodney needs to be lvl19 to double trouble, that still the case in evilhack? 11:14 yeah, i didnt change the level that dbl trouble needed to be cast 11:15 rodney levels up 1 per death, no? 11:15 so if you can drain him low enough he cant cast it 11:15 yeah 11:15 i think so yeah 11:15 and it caps at 49? i'd have to look 11:15 I was really lucky to not get a 4th rodney appearance 11:16 so level drain is pretty much mandatory for rodney now, and he can get resistance 11:16 no it isnt 11:16 its just a strategy one can employee 11:16 employ 11:16 (ee) 11:16 By the time you drain him to 19 he's had lots of chances to double trouble 11:16 ok but the other alternatives are much harder 11:16 potentially 11:17 there is no if else 11:17 you keep using that word. i dont' think it means wht you think it means 11:17 it does 11:17 Also complicating fighting rodney for longer on the ascent is the upstairs spawning nasties regularly 11:17 you're just fixated on rodney being harder 11:17 who me? 11:17 yeah 11:18 no i'm fixated on making the game unpleasant to play 11:18 basically slexed 11:18 hah 11:18 that's all sorts of wrong and you know it 11:18 The early game is still harder than rodney :O 11:18 others might hold a different opinion of course 11:19 you have a complaint, sure ok. not a problem. but dont start throwing insults hothraxxa 11:19 that's not meant to be an insult. that's my opinion 11:19 oh. slexed, right 11:19 sorry 11:19 so we're clear - comparing my game (or anyones game for that matter) to slex is an insult. 11:20 is slex a slur now? 11:20 VaderFLAG sorry, didnt mean to get sidetracked 11:21 so i'll push some changes later today in regards to the discussion here 11:21 haha you guys talk about slex so much I may have to try it for junethack 11:21 i took notes, i have a pretty clear idea what needs to happen 11:22 VaderFLAG you should, just so you can say you've tried it 11:22 i made an honest attempt a couple years ago to do well in slex 11:23 its just too weird 11:23 too many 'fuck you' things 11:23 so did i 11:23 despite the nasty traps and shit that happens before you even start 11:23 things like making the player legitimately think their terminal is crashing or glitching 11:24 ^^^ is shy i stopped 11:24 slex made a joke that went too far for me and now I don't play it anymore 11:24 why 11:24 what was that aosdict? 11:24 yeah aosdict 11:25 * K2 grabs some popcorn 11:25 I don't remember 11:25 vaderflag: play your 1000 turns but you should read the wiki about nasty traps, and look in a couple of dumplogs to see how the game fucks you before you even start 11:25 amateurhour figured out a 200 iq way to get a lot of slex trophies this year 11:25 i think 11:26 shhhhh 11:26 :P 11:26 Are nasty traps called something else? 11:26 istr they are called nasty traps. let me look 11:26 they're traps that do horrendous things for painfully long times, and sometimes may be triple invisible 11:26 ok i need food. back later. thanks for the feedback all, and VaderFLAG again congrats on the asc 11:26 Searching for that in the slex wiki wasn't finding anything 11:26 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Trap_(Slash%27EM_Extended) 11:27 oh I found it 11:27 That is a lot of traps 11:27 it wasn't a joke 11:27 it was "graphic descriptions of seduction" 11:27 she expresses it as 'traps that are "nasty"' 11:27 A trap that wakes up rodney and makes him follow you the rest of the game doesn't qualify as nasty?! 11:28 oh yeah aosdict there's so many wtfs in slex 11:28 did you scroll down to nasty traps? 11:29 Hahaha these are maximum WTF 11:29 Ok I have only ever played evilhack as a variant, which should I try for junethack? 11:30 xnethack 11:30 dnethack and slashem imo 11:30 B) 11:30 you're gonna find every variant too easy, might as well do the whack ones 11:30 dnethack is epic 11:30 jesus christ rot13 trap 11:30 play xnh new arc quest 11:31 I want people who are good to play it so that they actually get to the quest 11:31 that's your variant right? 11:31 i stepped on one (without knowing) that meant i could no longer do anything. every action generated what looked like an error message. i reported this to amy and she said "working as designed". that was my last slex game except for the junethack 1000 turns 11:32 Ok I understand making insane traps... but the sheer number of these boggles my mind. 11:32 vaderflag: for junethack play 1000 turns of every variant 11:32 Hmmm I'm sort of a completionist that might be hard for me 11:32 the worst part is they can be completely undetectable 11:32 and you mean play 1000 turns honestly, not just n1000s then quit 11:32 yes 11:33 it means you get trapped sometimes in variants you'd rather not play but that's junethack 11:33 eg i ascended gnollhack last year 11:33 Ok reading xnh wiki 11:33 on very easy? I might even try that for laughs 11:33 turned out to be quite interesting but it took a lot of time 11:33 cheap easy way to rack up ascs 11:33 xnethack is a really nice variant 11:33 K2: wtf the heck, why is there an orange dragon in minetown? 11:33 oh it was a chameleon 11:33 working as intended qt 11:34 aosdict: on whatever is the easiest setting, yes. for junethack, why would you do otherwise? 11:34 it's probs changed a lot in a year 11:34 also, definitely not a cheap easy way to rack up ascensions 11:34 now there's new voice acting for shopkeepers 11:34 "junethack has all these variants, including one that lets you multiply your hp by 16 and will count that as a full ascension" 11:34 awesome 11:35 whut? it didn't do that for me 11:35 vanilla is the way to rack up cheap easy ascensions... 11:35 I thought that was basically what very easy did 11:35 or reduces damage by a lot 11:35 nh4 is the easy way to rack up ascensions. just ask luxi 11:36 reduces damage by 25% or something in that range 11:36 yes but they're boring ascensions 11:36 so? what are we into here, ascensions or excitement? 11:36 it would be a chore at that point 11:37 i think i got my nh4 streak up to 7 11:45 Wait ascensions and excitement are different things? 11:58 -!- qt has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:14 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Gia Fem Neu), 7567 points, T:4765, killed by a Green-elf 12:48 -!- rebatela has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:49 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack 12:59 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Gia Fem Neu), 1354 points, T:1282, killed by a wand 12:59 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 13:05 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 13:15 [hdf-us] [evil] qt (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 8657 points, T:6467, killed by a Green-elf, while sleeping 13:17 [hdf-us] [evil] qt (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 342 points, T:599, killed by a crossbow bolt 13:24 [hdf-us] [evil] qt (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 847 points, T:1952, killed by a gnome king 13:24 VaderFLAG also try unnethack 13:24 and splicehack 13:25 I did a splicehack asc the other day, planes + astral are no joke. it's fun. 13:26 also, you meet all the demons when going up the amulet 13:26 *with the amulet 13:28 [hdf-us] [evil] qt (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 1183 points, T:1105, killed by a gnome lord 13:29 So many variants so little time 13:30 ^ that 13:30 unless you're luxidream 13:31 or hopped up on meth 13:31 rodney changes inbound 13:33 Booo make mobileuser fight Buff Rodney first 13:33 what can I say I'm a sucker for tears 13:33 * K2 hands hothraxxa a tissue 13:34 i kid i kid 13:34 the mspec thing is the biggest thing really, and that affects more than just rodney 13:48 [hdf-us] [evil] qt (Sam Hum Mal Law), 1485 points, T:1492, killed by a rothe 14:04 alright this feels a bit more... whats the word i'm looking for 14:04 balanced 14:14 lol thanks VaderFLAG for being the first to confront Rodney ;-) 14:15 O_O 14:16 If it's any consolation, I lost a promising Infidel in the early days because stinging footrice was not suppressed :-) 14:17 omg footrices with sting attacks 14:17 prickatrice 14:18 lol, that would be bad 14:18 make it happen L2 14:18 K2 14:21 [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±4] https://git.io/J37bL 14:21 [EvilHack] k21971 5a46fb4 - Adjustments to mspec_used for boss-level monsters, Wizard of Yendor gear tweaks. 14:22 !who 14:22 K2: [hdf-us] No current players :: [hdf-eu] No current players :: [hdf-au] No current players 14:23 that looks like a fair adjustment 14:24 update is live 14:24 thx! 14:26 its the 'no more tears' commit 14:26 VaderFLAG: easy, only play the good ones. then there's not much left 14:26 * bhaak goes into hiding 14:26 go hide you hider 14:27 * bhaak polyselfs into a t 14:28 Archon on the first Vecna level 14:28 lol nice 14:28 hah 14:29 its not hell, so... 14:29 I guess that like vlad's it - 14:29 yeah 14:29 maybe it has sunsword 14:29 maybe you can tame it 14:30 hmm yani: infidels should never ever be able to tame/make peaceful A class 14:30 exception being eldritch ki-rin 14:30 it's ded, too late 14:31 d e d DEAD 14:31 I - the blessed +0 Sunsword. 14:31 \o/ 14:31 so an archon spawns in veca's first level, with sunsword 14:31 vecna 14:32 double damage versus vecna? 14:32 extra damage vs undead in general 14:32 the sword of kas does triple damage against vecna 14:32 and dbl vs L 14:33 why does vecna keep a sword around that does triple damage against him 14:33 you have to know the history 14:33 is this some sort of cult 14:33 its the cult of personaility 14:33 thou must consume the holy text 14:34 ad&d 2e 14:34 brother maynard! bring out the book of armaments 14:36 vanilla sunsword is double damage... 14:37 vs any undead I mean 14:41 would be the same here then 14:41 in evilhack there's the added chance of destroying undead target outright 14:41 yeah, love sunsword :-) 14:41 LOVE IT 14:41 it, love (1 EA) 15:05 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 15:06 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 15:22 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Gia Fem Neu), 1272 points, T:2149, killed by a hobgoblin 15:42 heh, clairvoyance reveals the downstairs of the first Vecna level to me 15:59 -!- Umbire has joined #evilhack 16:02 bhaak oh ho, but which are the good ones? 16:03 evilhack is pretty good I've heard 16:05 of course the ones that are the oldest and had the longest time to mature 16:05 so, play NetHack 1.3d 16:08 mmm if I wield Sunsword then no Vampire Mage pets of course 16:09 * shakes fist at L3 16:09 L3, the Bizarro World K2 16:09 Sunsword doesn't seem like the sort of thing a demon infidel would even touch 16:09 and/or the 1610 counterpart to his 616 self 16:13 As long as it's not silver I'll touch anything 16:13 EVIL 16:14 sword of Kas poisons you even if you have poison res? 16:14 Man I wish I hadn't let that thing get vaporized on my armor 16:15 wow that thing does LOTS of damage 16:16 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Inf Dem Fem Una) destroyed Kas, on T:57209 16:16 F I forgot my robe was comprised 16:16 no more robe 16:16 well, back in my stash 16:16 just get a drain res one from vecna :) 16:17 not really necessary as demon ;-) 16:17 compromised, not comprised 16:30 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Inf Dem Fem Una) wished for "uncursed +2 dragonhide robe", on T:57296 16:31 at least this one doesn't burn if unproofed 16:31 \o/ 16:37 The alhoon casts a spell at you! Your dragonhide robe deteriorates! 16:38 sigh 16:39 how come you wanted it uncursed? 16:39 Sunsword flares brightly as it incinerates the alhoon! 16:39 \o/ 16:39 take that bastard 16:39 amateurhour blessed armor impedes spell casting 16:39 what about cursed? isn't that where it's at for infidel? 16:40 not-blessed 16:40 I thought it was like number of cursed armour minus number of blessed armour has to be 0 or greater 16:41 yeah. I aim for 0 blessed instead 16:41 ah that makes sense 16:41 otherwise it is a pain when reading blessed remove curse 16:42 also, hoping that uncursed has a better chance to resist spells than cursed 16:42 that might be a vain hope 16:43 "The ettin zombie's limbs are stiffening." 16:43 Is that Vecna... 16:44 Ettin zombie strategically stones only its arms so it can hit you harder 16:44 oh could be that beholder 16:44 lol 16:45 it doesn't look like BUC affects it mobi 16:45 could be misreading the code 16:48 This is going to be an interesting game. I have no reflection source, but I think I'll still go for the soko "tool" instead. 16:48 Badly need a BoH - and would be able to make good use of a magic marker if I don't get it. 16:50 My Djinni pet is a reminder that they didn't give me a wish. >:( 16:51 The tool is a trap! 16:51 No bag will keep you from dying! 16:54 Yeah, well, it's either a bag, or GoP. 16:54 My St is capped at 10. 16:54 * Arahael is playing Illithid. 16:55 amateurhour I always thought blessed armor had a better chance of resisting... 16:55 ME too 16:55 Just seems like it should 16:56 Resisting what? 16:56 ok I see a drawbridge to the side but no safe place to destroy it 16:56 blessed stuff does resist erosion from like rust traps and stuff but I don't know if this applies to the destroy armor stuff in evilhack 16:57 I can't see anywhere where it could from a brief eyeball 16:57 https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/blob/master/src/mcastu.c#L676 16:58 diagonal from drawbridges is safe 16:58 even if you're adjacent 16:59 Or, has always been for me 16:59 oh I suppose erode_obj is the trap.c function 17:00 in which case only blessed matters 17:02 thx VaderFLAG, never knew that 17:03 I need to go back to my stash to polypile for enchant weapon scrolls 17:03 bloody L's 17:28 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Rog Hob Mal Neu), 535 points, T:1147, killed by a gnome queen 17:45 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) murdered her faithful djinni, on T:18862 17:45 Oh, crap. 17:45 Still, NEXT TIME GIVE ME THE WISH! 17:59 Vecna time 18:00 bleh teleports to the upstairs :-( 18:00 you can do it! 18:01 wow they run at like 98% of their hp 18:01 that's really annoying 18:05 they're obsessed with being at full health lol 18:08 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Inf Dem Fem Una) destroyed Vecna, on T:58419 18:08 \o/ 18:09 woohoo! 18:09 mobileuser that fight was really weird 18:09 TROPHY GET 18:09 in what way? 18:09 well somehow vecna did 0 damage to you, and would run away every time they got a papercut 18:10 then all of a sudden they stopped running away to heal and just took it all? 18:10 is that normal lich stuff? 18:10 yeah I don't know if they stop running when too close to the upstairs... 18:11 most I had to fear was destroy armor, but he did that only once 18:11 how did they not hurt you at all? the dragons and hezrou seemed to do more damage 18:11 helps to be immune to death magic 18:12 just crazy good AC and all the resistances? 18:12 I got them all =D 18:12 * Arahael wonders if it's possible, to get all the soko treasures. 18:12 bedtime 18:12 it is not arahael 18:12 good night! 18:12 What if... I were to dig down on each of the treasures? 18:12 sleep well mobileuser, gratz on killing vecna \o/ 18:12 thx! 18:12 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 18:12 Woah, mobileuser killed vecna!? 18:13 Yep, wow. Nice. 18:16 That's two kills I think 18:16 Total\ 18:16 Since he was introduced 18:16 But yeah, once you're close to the upstairs or on it and they can't teleport away they'll continue to fight you 18:17 they weren't that close to the upstairs like vanilla liches 18:17 You might've been able to kill him before he could flee proper 18:17 they went from teleporting away after taking a single hit for like 2% of their health to standing basically still maybe 10 squares away from the stairs 18:18 I've a feeling K2 will be making him harder, then./ 18:18 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, acquiring a bag of holding, on T:20667 18:19 Weird... That BoH came with a wand that causes writing to vanish? 18:19 Which is either teleport or cancellation 18:20 they can have random items in yeah 18:20 If it's cancellation, does it potentially explode when I take it *out*? 18:32 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Sam Dwa Fem Law) changed form for the first time by mimicking a pile of gold, on T:5131 18:32 nope 18:36 Arahael: a boh that generated with a wand of cancel in is like winning the nethack lottery 18:36 not in terms of it's really good, but that it's quite rare 18:36 hmm, potential TNNT achivement? "remove a wand of cancellation from a bag of holding" 18:36 It was teleport. 18:44 The teleporting away when taking damage is what all teleporting critters do 18:44 all the demon princes will do the same thing 18:44 liches, alhoons 18:50 "Covetous" is the term 18:52 I thought there was some threshold, not just get hit once by anything 18:53 but the weirder part was that they stopped doing that at quite a distance from the stairs 18:57 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:22110 19:07 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Sam Dwa Mal Law), 10947 points, T:6897, quit 19:09 -!- amateurhour has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:11 Was mobile still within attacking range? 19:30 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Gia Fem Neu), 4085 points, T:6815, killed by a dwarf lord 19:46 [hdf-eu] [evil] SeamusMcRed (Mon Gia Mal Law) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:4468 19:47 The whole covetous (thx umbire) teleporting behavior needs someone smarter than me to redesign the whole thing from the bottom up 19:47 That seems a bit much honestly 19:47 I don't really like any of the existing solutions 19:48 honestly the solution is probably better AI for bosses so they don't have to use a crutch of running to the stairs all the time 19:48 Yea 19:48 What if they just... don't run away? 19:48 Because of that annoying thing called "self-preservation" 19:48 then fights are just a whack-whack-whack-you're-dead fest 19:48 ^ 19:49 at least covetous warping is more interesting than that 19:49 the demon bosses are pretty fast on their feet (hooves) they could outrun the player easily enough. 19:49 If anything I'd rather it be more like having the Chromatic Dragon or the Cyclops try to warp within line of sight to fry you with their breath/wand 19:49 VaderFLAG: the new arc quest nemesis in xnh doesn't warp (and I had to go through several annoying hoops to make THAT work...) 19:49 But then that might be overcorrecting considering the former has blasted disintegration breath 19:50 I would like bosses to not be exempt from no teleport restrictions 19:50 ok you ported away? I should be able to as well 19:52 I think you're right it would make them less interesting, but whack whack whack would certainly make them more scary 19:52 It's still an annoying chase but with the benefit that you can use control and match them warp for warp 19:53 the whackfest is just "my hp pool is bigger than yours" 19:53 Half the nemeses can summon nasties to boot 19:53 Yes that's most nethack combat, and the demons at least deserve better than that 19:54 That depends on how you play the char really 19:54 Kiting goes a long way 19:55 The generic stuff like liches - I feel like they should just engage you and not run away. They're undead, why would they be scared of you or want to go to an upstairs for some reason 19:56 Maybe kiting should be viable vs the Demons 19:56 Heck boulder forting is 19:56 Which makes less sense 19:56 jubilex is slow and will eat you if you get close - run away! seems reasonable 19:57 Anyway someone smarter than me will solve this problem 19:57 movietime 19:59 "They're undead, why would they be scared of you or want to go to an upstairs for some reason" 19:59 -!- arahael1 has joined #evilhack 20:00 And back we circle to the whole "self-preservation" thing 20:01 -!- Arahael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:05 most undead are fearless, but liches are intelligent 20:06 lore-wise at least, nethack undead in most variants can flee 20:06 but liches have gone through a lot to hang onto some semblance of continued existence and ought to have some self preservation 20:13 Woah. An Elder Minotaur. Hope that's a chameleon. 20:13 vecna did the same thing when VaderFLAG fought it 20:13 it stopped running to the stairs at some point and just took it 20:13 grats mobileuser btw 20:14 It's not a chameleon! 20:14 scrollback 2 hours i guess. sorry. I'll go over to the chatty channerwl 20:14 channel 20:15 Elder minotaurs still have low MR, don't they? 20:16 -!- arahael1 is now known as Arahael 20:16 Umbire: Possibly, but I have only 67 max HP. 20:16 XL? 20:16 Also DL? 20:16 And this one is surprisingly fast, too. Xp 11, DL 17 20:17 I feel like this might be bones somehow 20:17 > A much stronger and harder hitting version of the minotaur, only found in Gehennom. 20:17 I think you got polytrapped, dude. 20:18 Use monster lookup on it to see its mr 20:18 Yeah, I suspect it's poly'ed. 20:19 Umbire: There's a sea dragon in the throne room two levels down, as well. 20:19 That makes sense, D are throne room monsters 20:20 I don't know if they're coded to only spawn on water tiles or what, though, but there's SOME basis for it 20:20 I don't think there's any water there, so it must not be the case. 20:21 It's an odd game, usualyl I have a wish by now. 20:21 Or at the very least, usually I'd be higher XP by now. 20:21 Just passed 25k turns. 20:34 Elder minoutaurs are no joke and you can't tame them. I had the bright idea to rev geno them and try to tame a pack of them and almost died 20:35 Hmm... Throne genocide... Wonder if I should geno sea dragons. 20:35 rebatela: Yeah, but at least I have warning, teleportitis, and teleport control... I can avoid the elder minotaur, at least. 20:35 [hdf-us] [evil] nabru (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 106 points, T:255, killed by Mr. Gaziantep; the shopkeeper, while sleeping 20:36 Usually at this point I geno alhoons, but K2, bless his heart, has nerfed that. 20:36 I'm wondering if they still have nonexistent monster MR or it's at least low 20:36 I assume it's still at least low. 20:37 See if sleep/fear/etc. ain't an option 20:37 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (sea dragons), on T:25351 20:38 You're a wizard so you should be able to get to a range where you can try a spell or two without it immediately running up on you 20:38 But then idk your speed vs. the elder mino's 20:38 Yeah, well, that's true, I'm not heaps worried about teh elder mino, I was surprised. 20:39 Just have to be careful not to _ somewhere until it's gone. 20:39 Speed wise, the elder mino is about the same, or faste.r 20:41 Hmmm 21:05 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Gia Fem Neu), 137 points, T:464, killed by a water demon 21:08 K2: Are you still working on the puddle drying up code? 21:08 No, the puddles dry up just fine 21:08 So I doubt it. 21:19 the first puddle had about 6 uses, then the other puddles dried up immediately. I need another fountain to test with 21:29 bouquet: Yep, plenty of puddles in gnomish mines. 21:29 It's the RNG. 21:36 Ooh, interesting... Xorns don't like water. 21:37 Yeah, they're phasers, not swimmers 21:38 Or at least they don't actively swim 21:39 Means that puddle of water in the wizard quest home level is a good place to hide. 21:39 Doing the quest, with only Xp 12. 21:40 A bit risky, I might decide not to go against the nemisis just yet. 21:40 I tried Barb Quest in xnh at XL 10 and got my shit pushed in 21:40 Granted I didn't exactly play the encounter I had in mind smart as I could've 21:42 I'm mainly looking for reflection at this point, anyway. 21:51 I'm still trying to replace that AoLS I burned in the process 21:52 bouquet its working as intended. there's a chance a puddle will dry up everytime you use it 21:53 [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Bar Orc Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (rust monsters), on T:3214 21:55 OOh. Two mindflayers in the quest level. I'll say hi! 21:55 RNG ones? 21:56 Yep. Oooh... There's a huge number of mindflayer larva... 21:56 Are they dangerious? (To an Illithid) 21:56 OH 21:57 Oh, the new goal level and such, right. 21:57 I mean they shouldn't be I feel like? 21:57 New goal level? 21:57 [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Bar Orc Fem Cha), 2934 points, T:3979, killed by a Woodland-elf 21:58 Ah, yep, looks like it's a new thing. 21:58 if you're an illithid, flayers arent much of a concern 21:59 > The mind flayer larva tries to attach itself to the gnomish wizard's face! 21:59 you're immune to the brain attack 21:59 K2: Yes, but what about the larva? 21:59 spoiler alert 21:59 you want me to say? :) 22:00 Yes, because if you don't say, I won't find out anyway as I'll just kill 'em otherwise! 22:00 (Or ignore them entirely, since they won't leave the nursery) 22:00 mind flayer larva need a humanoid host so they can mature 22:00 you're already illithid 22:01 Not much of a spoiler really 22:01 if he didnt know, its a spoiler 22:01 * Arahael agrees with Umbire - K2 needs to do better! 22:01 I mean yeah in context but this is based heavily in AD&D stuff 22:01 Game's older than me 22:01 Having not played AD&D, this all reminds me of Stargate. 22:02 you'll be ok 22:03 Just think literal brainworms 22:03 [hdf-eu] [evil] NetSysFire (Inf Ith Fem Una), 548 points, T:832, killed by a hobbit, while praying 22:05 Sweet. 22:05 I wonder if I can use them somehow. 22:05 Pug and Newt's free. 22:07 Ooh. Yes, I have a strategy using them. Lets see. 22:09 > The mind flayer larva senses you are kin, and releases its grip. 22:10 Ok, I'm definitely not ready to fight the dark one yet. 22:11 Just struck 72 HP off me, or thereabouts. My max HP is 77. 22:11 I coulda told ya that! 22:11 (For real though, get outta there before ya fry) 22:12 even in vanilla i wouldnt take on quest nemesis with that little hp 22:12 Vanilla doesn't have illithids in all fairness 22:12 It's this or castle... Skipping medusa. 22:12 I have no reflection so can't fight medusa. 22:13 illithid is like a watered down mind flayer as far as tentacle attacks go 22:13 plus Arahael is also illithid 22:13 I mean in terms of playable races 22:13 The dark one isn't an illithid, though. 22:13 so thats not really a factor here 22:13 as in his HP probably wouldn't be that low for fuckin' 22:13 Arahael he is in evilhack now 22:13 uhhhhhh 22:13 XL 12? 22:14 And I had barracaded myself in the mindflayer nursery. Unfortunately, it seems the larva don't attack him. 22:14 11 or 12, said one of those 22:14 Yep, XL 12. 22:14 Another 10k to go before I'm XL 13. 22:16 Hmm, no wraith farming? 22:16 Umbire: Only one so far. No geno either yet. 22:16 Once I have that quest artifact, however, then wraith farming becomes easy. 22:17 Aren't they a quest class/monster? 22:17 Ah, well, there was only the one(!) 22:17 If so I feel like trying your luck with create monster should get you at least a few 22:17 Hmm... 22:17 On the first level? 22:18 I don't have anything that creates monsters, anyway. 22:18 Not even a scroll? 22:18 I feel like someone would've sprung at least one on you 22:18 Oh, dark one followed me!!! 22:19 ...as in between levels? 22:19 Was he next to you on the stairs? 22:19 He must've been, I thought not, but. 22:19 I'll go down another level to test that. :D 22:19 Or else, *sigh*, I'll kill him. 22:20 Unless K2 made QAs invokable for nemeses 22:20 no 22:20 I have a lot of unidentified scrolls. 22:20 all of the quest nemesis are M2_STALK 22:20 they will follow you 22:20 Yep 22:21 Vanilla behavior 22:21 I'm down at the bottom of the tower now, and the dark one was NOT next to me now. 22:21 that's vanilla beheavior 22:21 Same if they're next to you when you levelport or what have you 22:24 Now XL 13 :D Found another wraith. 22:25 It's interesting that the home level is no-telo, but the quest itself lets you telo fine. 22:26 Most home levels are no-tele 22:26 Prevents bypasses 22:26 with locate/filler it varies 22:35 Bypasses? Ah, to bypass the QL 22:38 Mhm 22:43 [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] https://git.io/J3dLZ 22:43 [EvilHack] k21971 55f6a34 - Change 'summon nasties' list for Vecna. 22:43 Uh oh 22:43 no uh oh 22:43 read the commit 22:45 I did 22:45 Very much an uh oh 22:45 It's Vecna, any nasties he summons are gonna be a problem by definition 22:45 Between zombies being zombies and mummies withering your shit 22:46 its appropriate 22:46 did you read the commit note? 22:46 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:49 Yes 22:49 it is very appropriate 22:49 hence the uh oh 22:54 VaderFLAG you around? 22:54 mobileuser isnt here either... 22:55 nor amateurhour 22:55 they were all asking about why vecna was porting to the stairs after a couple hits 22:57 that's normal vanilla behavior for any monster that covets any of the invocation artifacts or the amulet 22:57 digging deeper, i see why it happens so often 22:57 (there's a tweak in there for rodney) 22:58 i'll save the particulars for when everyone is present 23:00 Woah... Coming down back from the quest level, having failed to kill the dark one... 23:00 Got ambushed by trolls... 23:00 One of whom just happens to have an SDSM.... 23:00 So now I has reflection! 23:00 \o/ 23:00 hoorah 23:00 ...wait. 23:00 Aren't they too large for body armor? 23:01 Yep. Unfortunately, it's 196 aum, so that's going to be a bit tricky. 23:01 Umbire: It's a deathdrop, I don't know if it was wearing it. 23:01 DSM shouldn't be a deathdrop... 23:01 * Arahael shrugs 23:01 It was probably carrying that from someone's bones 23:01 That I can guess at 23:01 There was also a gnollish wizard that was creating a crapton of monsters. 23:09 Ooh, I was too quick. It's Silver Scale Mail. Not Silver *Dragon* Scale Mail. 23:09 No wonder it was heavy. 23:10 doh 23:12 * Umbire rolls up a newspaper 23:16 Ok, I'm going to take a peek at medusa's level, sans reflection. 23:16 [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/J3d3L 23:16 [EvilHack] k21971 6eab7f2 - Adjust how often Vecna warps to the upstairs. 23:17 * Arahael was right - K2 was going to make it harder! 23:17 uh oh~ 23:17 that actually makes it a bit easier imo 23:18 Makes sense that someone of Vecna's power isn't as cautious 23:19 Dude was a literal god at one point 23:19 yup 23:19 Interesting implications re: Rodney, though 23:19 rodney was already in there 23:19 ^ vanilla 23:22 No 23:22 I mean like, if Vecna's so powerful as to be less cautious and has been a god at least previously 23:22 Then one starts to wonder just how powerful Rodney is 23:25 you can equate vecna lore to rodney in this context 23:25 *cant 23:25 i mean yeah vecna has this whole back story but that really pertains to ad&d 23:25 it doesnt relate to the wiz of yendor 23:25 also, there was a time when vecna wasnt a god 23:26 and if i recall, vecna also 'fell from grace' as it were 23:26 it varies from edition to edition of d&d 23:26 either way, he's a smug asshole 23:27 Found wraiths. :D Suddenly, i'm Xp 17. 23:30 I'm not trying to relate Vecna's backstory to Rodney, just wondering how they compare power-wise 23:30 I mentioned "previously" for a reason among other things 23:30 in evilhack's setting, vecna is more powerful 23:31 but, vecna doesnt do dbl-trouvle or keep coming back to harass you either 23:31 *trouble 23:34 Hmm, I thought i had hungerless casting? But #teleport seems to cause hunger? 23:34 what is your int? 23:35 and do you have the spell 'teleport away' ? 23:35 Int:20, and no, I don't have that spell. 23:36 you have hungerless casting, but you're not casting a spell to tele 23:36 Ah - so that's how hunger gets triggered. 23:47 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Bar Gia Fem Cha) had Cleaver bestowed upon her by Set, on T:6037 23:47 Hmm, the nurse is hitting me, but I have no armour on? 23:47 Yeah, the at-will tele is something all characters have and isn't counted as a spell, technically 23:48 Looks like I have to also be weaponless. 23:48 Just w then - 23:49 Yep. 23:58 Hmm, a Boojum. A *random* Boojum? Doesn't seem right.