00:01 -!- qt has quit [Quit: bye] 00:02 -!- inSanity has joined #evilhack 00:29 -!- stenno has joined #evilhack 00:34 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:20 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 02:47 over the years, I wouldn't be surprised if the number of people involved would rival a small city 02:51 TDTTOE gives to much credit to the devteam. on one hand, the devteam has been willing to go to various lengths to implement complex behavior (see for example shoplifitng. making that just impossible would have been way easier than the sophisticated code we have by now). but the other hand, the people giving suggestions or just reporting bugs and odd behavior is neglected, possibly because it wasn't that visible. 02:51 I'm surprised that still many people just write in by mail. 03:04 -!- Umbire has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:14 -!- amateurhour has joined #evilhack 04:07 -!- stenno has joined #evilhack 04:15 -!- stenno2 has joined #evilhack 04:17 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:18 -!- stenno3 has joined #evilhack 04:20 -!- stenno2 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:45 -!- stenno4 has joined #evilhack 04:46 -!- stenno3 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:48 -!- stenno has joined #evilhack 04:49 -!- stenno4 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:24 Hmm. I definitely have a wand of death. 05:25 bhaak: Maybe our standards are just crazy high. Compared to other games... 05:28 K2: Just so you're aware, I hold you to the same standards. ;) But 0.6 or even 0.7 is not quite yet 100%... 05:41 -!- inSanity_ has joined #evilhack 05:41 -!- inSanity has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:47 -!- inSanity_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:49 -!- inSanity has joined #evilhack 05:52 *sigh*. 05:52 > The scorpion claws you! The scorpion claws you! The scorpion stings! The scorpion's sting was poisoned! The poison was deadly... Do you want your possessions identified? [ynq] (y) 05:53 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 10192 points, T:8140, poisoned by a scorpion 06:21 Arahael: by implementing crazy complex processes to exploits the devteam has set that bar themselves. I'm not sure how the interaction with the community measures with other games. there are certainly other games where the devs watch the community very closely. 06:35 I would grade the devteam's community interaction as a C or maybe a D 06:35 it's also interaction if you send a mail and that results into a code change 06:35 it really is bad that you can email or github a submission or bug report and you will never hear anything back 06:36 not that the devteam should be required to respond within some time frame or what have you, but there's a certain bare minimum of "at least tell people you're not going to do something" that's lacking 06:42 -!- stenno2 has joined #evilhack 06:46 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:51 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack 06:51 -!- stenno3 has joined #evilhack 06:52 -!- stenno2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:52 Yeah, well, to their credit, it _is_ an opensource game, and they aren't paid for it. 06:53 And we don't have to play it either. 06:56 that doesn't seem relevant to me, the conversation is 'what could be better' 06:56 there are plenty of other open source games where you can have a reasonable expectation of the devs responding when you reach out 06:56 there are also plenty of others where you don't? 06:56 amateurhour: I'm just a bit wary of insisting opensource devs respond to the community, it's sometimes gotten toxic over the past, though not in this case with nethack, I guess. 06:57 like when people open PRs you expect that if there's a reply it'll be on the PR and not in a weird rant on reddit, or just ignored outright 06:57 so far my experience with submitting emails is that they've all been replied to 06:57 so it might just be some github blind spot 06:57 amateurhour: That's probably it, yeah. 06:58 github is where it's at teh worst, probably because github doubles as one's portfolio for job offers in some communities, which I think is a bit nasty at times. 06:59 amateurhour: I can't claim that all of my mails where answered. I don't know if this changed since the pre-leak times but ais made getting information out of the devteam when submitting bug reports into an art form. 06:59 even stockpiling some bugs in preparation for future questions 07:00 I've only ever sent emails since 3.7 has been in development so I have no idea about the past, heh 07:01 bhaak: do you get any emails for things like, "feature suggestion that no one besides the submitter wants in the game" 07:02 and if so are they told no 07:04 aosdict: rarely. although remember the guy that had a list of names from greek mythology as a suggestion to add to the game, without any design to what those new monsters should. and just this week someone was asking us for releasing an Russian Android port, even if only machine translated. 07:04 the message was in Russian even 07:05 was the mythology guy on github or 07:05 cause otherwise I wouldn't have seen it 07:06 he was first on github and then sent a mail to the devteam 07:06 https://github.com/NetHack/NetHack/issues/387 07:06 you even replied to it :) 07:07 yeah I thought I remembered it vaguely 07:10 what I would really like to see is some willingness to close old stuff on github that isn't going to happen, preferably with a short explanation. There's no good reason things like https://github.com/NetHack/NetHack/issues/100 are still open. 07:10 after 3 years almost 07:11 Interesting logo. 07:30 Hmm, I've _finally_ managed to break some bad habits in this current game - much better. Generally trying to avoid monsters. 07:30 Or at least, not melee'ing them all the time. 07:37 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 2956 points, T:4717, poisoned by an orc zombie 07:37 Just as I was feelign good! 07:42 "Wow! This makes you feel good! You die..." <-- drugs 07:43 there's a pill in slashem that when consumed can give you a wish or make you a little ill 07:45 oh it's in splicehack as well but without the ability to get a wish 07:45 weird 08:07 0.7 WHEN :b 08:07 T O D A Y 08:08 \o/ 08:08 i need to wake up a bit first before i do anything heh 08:27 -!- qt has joined #evilhack 09:20 -!- inSanity has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 09:47 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 2353 points, T:1978, quit 09:48 !setmintc 3000 09:48 rebatela: [hdf-au][hdf-eu][hdf-us] Min reported turncount for rebatela set to 3000 09:48 if i quit after 3000 then people can laugh 09:49 sometimes i just like to start anew... like when i get orctown and a nymph steals my robe 09:51 yeah no worries 09:52 I'm waiting for 0.7 09:52 Don't want to be stuck in 0.6 09:54 you're the one playing slex... 09:54 lol 09:55 is it coming that soon? 09:55 like my game will get locked out and i won't be able to play ? 09:57 my goal is to release 0.7 tonight 09:57 i feel like i'm gonna suck at it 09:57 yess 09:57 maybe even this afternoon 09:57 oh no shit? so i really shouldn't be playing 09:57 are you gonna post on reddit/rgrn about it k2? 09:57 well you can 09:57 i could ascend today 09:57 qt yup 09:57 12 hours is my low time i think 09:57 sweet 09:58 that's awesome man! 09:58 rebatela, play some slex in the meantime! ;-) 09:58 when the new version is put on the server can people still wrap up their 0.6.0 games? or does it actually break their in-progress games? 09:59 qt the way it works for all games on hardfought - when new version is installed, dgl looks to see if you have a game still inprogress on an older version you finish it out first 09:59 ok that's what I thought 09:59 you dont cut over to playing new version until game on old version is complete (died/ascended) 09:59 I think aosdict is still on 0.5? 09:59 with the priest 09:59 hah 10:00 lol 10:01 i need to start reading the code. i feel like everyone else is already spoiled 10:01 i'm out of the loop 10:02 but i've actually bookmarked the release notes page so i don't have to ask for it for the millionth time 10:02 uopdating the wiki should be fun... 10:03 omg that's gonna be a chore lol 10:03 i heard that there are no more gnomish wizards when you enter minetown. awesome change imo 10:03 always burning my gear, blowing up potions and scrolls 10:04 you do get that mental acuity from eating them, but overall i think they needed to go 10:05 j/k i just happened to be at minetown. i got the good one with the bookstore 10:08 .7 :O 10:08 Better finish my .6 game 10:10 #quit 10:10 finishing game speedrun trick 10:11 !streak VaderFLAG 10:11 VaderFLAG: [hdf-us] VaderFLAG Max[evil]: 3 (2020-12-30 - 2021-01-14). Current[evil]: 1 (since 2021-02-03). 10:12 It's a fresh young impressionable streak, can't go abandoning it 10:12 if you're having trouble letting go just loan me your credentials and I'll quit it for you 10:13 Wow that's so kind 10:13 always happy to assist 10:14 i heard that there are no more gnomish wizards when you enter minetown. awesome change imo <--- false rumor 10:14 really, just false. i dont remember a rumor 10:15 heya VaderFLAG 10:16 Heya 10:16 Very exciting day! 10:16 Congrats on another big ver 10:17 mobileuser: I'm in that state of "I kinda just want to kill him but at the same time it's a really promising game" 10:17 thanks VaderFLAG 10:17 aosdict dont give up lol 10:17 not sure I have time to crank out an evilhack asc before junethack with all the other stuff I've got to do 10:17 never give up! 10:17 not sure I'm capable of cranking out an evilhack asc at all in fact, never done it 10:17 same 10:21 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:3031 10:21 bagh 10:21 right at 3000 turns too 10:21 :( 10:21 pickaxe in the mines? 10:22 pick axe at the oracle breaking those statues 10:22 rip 10:22 i've gotten the conduct a couple times. i don't care that much. you do all that crap- vegan etc. now that's cool! 10:23 vegan is fine, you get all the intrinsics except telepathy anyway without having to get crowned 10:23 only annoyance is getting xlvl 14 for the quest 10:24 that was changed for next ver 10:24 min level is now 10 10:24 \o/ 10:24 thought you knew that? 10:25 I forgot 10:25 what do you mean by that though. oh because you can't eat wraiths? 10:25 yeah 10:26 in vanilla I sometimes dance with foocubi just to get the level 10:26 and yes, k2. I'm spreading false rumors about the new evilhack. I'm like a cursed fortune cookie 10:28 rodney will cast reflection and 50% of the time have amulet of MR 10:29 so looking at this - https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Experience_level#Experience_points_required_per_level 10:29 this is what I was thinking for evilhack... 10:29 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Cha) became literate by reading a book, on T:3324 10:30 for levels 1-16, keep the xp curve the same, and going from 16 and up, its still just 320,000 per level 10:30 instead of the crazy 10mil per by the time you reach exp lvl 21 in vanilla 10:31 320k is still a heck of a lot 10:32 with monster gen ramping up as you progress? not so much 10:32 oof i found an error in nabru's csv 10:34 i don't think i've ever like naturally reached level 17 10:35 me neither 10:35 i always try to get to 30 because of the spellcasting but it takes wratihs and potions and all that. melee roles is there even a need to get above 14? i 10:35 on the current xp gain i've grinded to 18 10:35 its doable 10:36 at the higher exp levels, its supposed to take work to get higher. i think 320k per is reasonable (vs the current 10mil) 10:37 what's the xnh xp curve? is it the same as one of the ones on the wiki already? 10:37 same as fiqhack 10:37 especially as once you get to the castle (or get crowned), monster gen has already increased and will continue to ramp up 10:37 dnh and fiqhack/xnh xp curve is ridiculous imo 10:37 way way way too low 10:37 slash'em... wtf 10:38 slashems is fine 10:38 out of all of those, I hate to say this... 10:38 for a killing-everything-I-saw slashem asc I got to like xlvl 22 in the endgame 10:38 * K2 chokes up 10:38 amy was on the right track 10:38 * K2 faints 10:38 slex's only makes sense because slex is so long 10:39 -!- rebatela has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:39 you'd easily get to xlvl 30 halfway through gehennom 10:39 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack 10:39 slashems is far better for an ordinary variant that isn't 250+ floors long 10:39 yeah slex has the 200+ levels to get to sanctum slog 10:39 vanilla's is bad and should feel bad 10:39 heh 10:40 why does the required xp get lower at one point in slashem 10:40 i need to take ramped up monster gen into consideration for evilhack 10:40 i think 320k is fair 10:40 the xlvl 14 barrier 10:40 is gone 10:40 xp lvl 10 now 10:40 for quest 10:41 the answer to all things 'why does ... in slashem' because WAC is whack 10:41 heh 10:43 so the plan is: going from 16 to 17, 320k and every exp level past that, still just 320k 10:44 curious what mobileuser thinks 10:44 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:44 its better than current/vanilla, thats for sure 10:46 sounds good to me! 10:47 it's 1-16's xp per level 10:47 also, I've calculated that if I kill boars for 2 months in the forest, I can reach 30 this way. 10:47 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack 10:47 lol 10:47 live to win 10:47 \o/ 10:48 south park world of warcraft method 10:48 someone actually did that in real world of warcraft 10:49 no way :-) 10:49 https://www.pcinvasion.com/south-park-max-level-killing-boars/ 10:49 OMG 10:49 :) 10:49 lol 11:06 [hdf-eu] [evil] mightyquinn (Arc Hum Mal Law) had Demonbane bestowed upon him by Quetzalcoatl, on T:44896 11:14 proposed - https://www.hardfought.org/phpBB3/gallery/image/2585/source 11:15 this is what fh/xnh looks like - https://www.hardfought.org/phpBB3/gallery/image/2586/source 11:19 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Gia Fem Neu) completed Sokoban, acquiring a magic marker, on T:7858 11:23 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Gia Fem Neu), 11585 points, T:7945, killed by a wraith 11:49 [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/J3TBx 11:49 [EvilHack] k21971 40cc4f2 - Remove monster maximum difficulty limit with demigod flag set. 11:49 ^ from xnethack heh 11:49 oh dear 11:49 ok i'm gonna say it. I don't like the change to only needing lvl 10 to enter quest. not very evil 11:50 you should look at the actual commit rebatela 11:51 iirc xlvl 14 was the max level when the quest was introduced 11:51 the real change should be to raise quest requirement to xlvl 30 11:51 i doubt you'll get many other complaints about it lol 11:52 i'm just thinking about (even vanilla) games where yeah it sucks but you figure it out, grind, get lucky, alchemize some potions or whatever. Sometimes it takes turns 11:53 or you are forced to do castle so you can kite wraiths 11:53 it's evilhack not tedium and boredom hack 11:53 lvl 10 can come awfully quick 11:56 that's interesting about the max level thing though. when was the quest introduced? 11:58 i don't like doing the quest because it creates an artifact, but for people who don't wish like that who will do the castle first anymore? sometimes doing the castle when you aren't really strong enough because you can't do the quest is what makes it hard/fun 12:00 there probably shouldn't be any level requirement actually. Just make the monster generation go up. What IS the point of the level requirement in the first place? 12:00 [hdf-eu] [evil] mightyquinn (Arc Hum Mal Law) killed Medusa, on T:46932 12:00 you should look at the actual commit rebatela 12:02 if you accept the quest before xl14 the monster generation rate goes up, but if you wait it doesn't? 12:02 is that it k2? 12:02 or am I misreading it 12:02 correct 12:03 if you accept the quest at exp lvl 14 or greater (like you're supposed to per vanilla hahah) monster gen is untouched 12:03 accept it at exp lvl 13 or lower, it doubles 12:05 rebatela: the thing about requiring level 10 to enter the quest is that it gives the player enough rope to hang themselves 12:05 whereas if you make them wait until after valley or so, they're gonna be overprepared and the quest probably won't kill them 12:06 k2 I think there's a problem with 3f9fa02 12:06 it seems like 'has_claws(mptr) && has_claws_undead(mptr)' will never be true because there's no overlap between them 12:07 maybe it should be '(has_claws(mptr) || has_claws_undead(mptr)' ? 12:07 that was fixed right after 12:07 oh ok 12:07 amateurhour caught it 12:07 good lookin out 12:07 'thank you for your support' 12:07 :P 12:08 :) 12:08 rebatela: what aosdict said. the change isnt really a 'because it should be for evilhack' its more a 'it should be for nethack all the way around' 12:08 qt i said that to my wife again this morning 12:09 got an eye roll and a pillow tossed at me 12:09 'go to work weirdo' 12:09 haha 12:09 that should have been my wedding vow 12:09 i disagree. everyone thinks 14 is too high because it sucks getting from 13 to 14. Changing it to 10 because of that is so non-nethack. vanilla is the original evil. Variants making the game easier just doesn't make sense to me 12:10 it's like getting rid of the force... 12:10 you think entering the quest at exp lvl 10 is easier? especially in evilhack? 12:10 i didn't like the force either 12:10 go ahead 12:10 oh and now vanilla has nerfed the force 12:10 do it 12:10 xlvl 14 requirement doesn't make it harder, just more annoying 12:10 getting rid of the midichlorians would have been a good idea 12:11 yes. i do. The role i play, sometimes i am forced to do the castle without mr. If i can just do the quest at lvl 10, it is a huge nerf. I'll never go for the amulet in soko again (if i even DO soko) 12:11 the true evilness would be to honor the original idea for the quest admission condition 12:11 K2: I think rebatela just wants masochisthack 12:11 only things that make the game harder 12:11 i'm being contrarian. but i'm also being honest 12:11 yeah bhaak, maximum level aka xlvl 30 12:12 rebatela: there is no requirement that variants make the game harder 12:12 tariru is going to ascend evil in like 3 hours 12:12 if you're going to paint anything that makes the game easier as "non-nethack"... 12:12 bhaak: oh i'm aware of that. you might notice i don't play a lot of variants 12:13 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Gia Fem Neu), 3512 points, T:3094, killed by an owlbear 12:13 I also dispute that dropping the quest level makes the game easier, it just makes it less frustrating 12:13 it's not like the quest itself is easier 12:13 rebatela: if you only want your variant to appeal to the Adeon's and Tariru's of this world, your playerbase will be pretty small. 12:13 maybe i'm just used to the tedium 12:15 you could also still get to the quest at xl10 and have crappy gear that requires you to continue exploring and loop back once you're better prepared 12:16 well, i play the game. I don't really care how many people it appeals to. It used to be super hard and they are making changes to vanilla i don't like. Is that what it is? They are trying to gain new players? 12:16 Maybe remove permadeath 12:16 I don't think vanilla has a coherent game design going 12:16 on 12:18 the quest xlvl requirement seems like such an odd hill to die on 12:18 maybe make the items not be randomized every game. That can get really frustrating! 12:19 and i can't stand when the amy's of the world view 3.43 as canon and call 3.6 a variant etc. but here i am - "Get off my lawn!" 12:19 although I remember at least once to have read the words "the game is supposed to be hard" in internal discussions. but I don't exactly remember the context 12:19 rebatela: there are some ways the game has been made harder too. e.g. unicorn horns no longer curing attribute loss. I would say that has a bigger impact on my games than changing the probability of encountering the mysterious force repeatedly or whatever 12:19 K2 did you ever email the dev team about the xp loss with new amnesia? 12:19 i let paxed know 12:20 iirc they then said 'send an email' 12:20 cuz it was his change 12:20 true. the unicorn horn was a great change 12:20 nah i havent sent anything yet 12:20 i forgetted 12:20 i haz teh dumb 12:20 !tell K2 henlo it me ur favorit reminder person - submit teh bugz 12:20 I'm on it, amateurhour. 12:21 not xp loss, training loss, youknowwhatimean 12:21 rebatela: a change first done in several variants, I might add 12:21 :) 12:21 K2: Message from amateurhour at 2021-04-28 12:20 EDT: henlo it me ur favorit reminder person - submit teh bugz 12:21 you might miss out by not playing variants :) 12:22 yeah i've known about the unicron thing for a while. it never made sense to me why restore ability was so useless in vanilla either 12:22 -!- Umbire has joined #evilhack 12:22 now it's a great spell/potion 12:23 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Pri Ith Mal Cha), 830 points, T:1485, killed by a rothe, while fainted from lack of food 12:24 but for me, a lot of the changes variants make- paranoia, or fixing what some people perceive as 'interface screws' go against everything i loved about the game and what makes it hard. Different strokes. If you're trying to get people to play you're game then I guess I get it. But i play the game 12:26 a typo should kill you. Because its killed me a zillion times. Why would i care if it makes someone never play again? not my game... 12:29 hmm this is odd 12:29 https://0x0.st/-mFZ.diff 12:29 ^ that does the experince changes i wanna do 12:29 but once you reach level 30, you dont gain more exp like you do in vanilla when you drink potions of gain level, etc 12:32 k2 when I drink blessed potion of gain level it works 12:32 uncursed gain level doesn't 12:32 are you sure that's different from what it does normally 12:32 hmm.. is that normal? 12:32 idk 12:32 maybe it is and i really do have the dumb 12:33 it works that way even without this change 12:33 so if it is a bug it's caused by a previous commit 12:33 the blessed potions give you experience towards the next level 12:33 1/2 experience specifically 12:33 Umbire: Message from K2 at 2021-04-27 07:52 EDT: yes 12:33 you are correct good sir 12:33 yay 12:33 \o/ 12:34 Umbire: isn't it a random amount of xp 12:34 how did i not know this 12:34 so sometimes they aren't worth blessing 12:34 between the current xl cutoff and the next 12:34 once you get to where you are never going to get it naturally 12:34 No, I don't think 12:34 It's always been "level up + halfway to the next" for me 12:35 yeah but if the only way to the next is another potion or a wraith... 12:35 i'm talking when you are like level 20 12:35 no point in being halfway to 21 12:35 you'll never kill enough monsters 12:35 We know. :V 12:35 oh ok 12:35 i thought you were arguing. carry on 12:35 :) 12:36 https://github.com/NetHack/NetHack/blob/NetHack-3.7/src/potion.c#L980 12:42 -!- rebatela has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:49 [hdf-us] [evil] terrapin (Pri Ith Fem Cha), 455 points, T:547, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted giant bat 13:04 [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/J3TQc 13:05 [EvilHack] k21971 1557bfa - Experience level gain formula adjustment. 13:09 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Gia Fem Neu), 1083 points, T:2094, killed by an Aleax of Tyr 13:14 K2: I didn't care to make a pretty cure. My main focus was player experience 13:14 *curve 13:14 curves or die 13:15 i dare you to make your xp curve quadratic 13:15 dbl dog dare you 13:16 the pun on experience was not intended 13:16 humor is lost on you this day, isnt it 13:17 (dare is still in effect) 13:17 you didn't mean to make a pretty cure and yet i cannot distinguish between fiqhack and this: https://0x0.st/-mFW.jpg 13:17 lol 13:17 wtf is that 13:18 anime called "pretty cure" 13:18 lol 13:18 OH MY 13:18 what are those things at the bottom? rabbits? 13:18 no clue. I haven't ever seen it, I just know the name 13:19 the one on the right looks like a squirrel or something to me 13:19 oh thats its tail 13:19 not its body 13:19 lol 13:20 it would be even more grotesque if that were its body 13:20 qt: Haha 13:20 K2: the things at the bottom of the image are called "letters" 13:21 no... that's a tribble 13:23 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack 13:25 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Gia Fem Neu), 380 points, T:719, killed by a water moccasin 13:38 -!- stenno3 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.0] 13:39 qt i'll want this I imagine - https://github.com/copperwater/xNetHack/pull/36/commits/8c81b39323868060fc279a5c7bfc69cb2cbe4e29 13:41 yeah maybe so, you can always replace it later if aosdict comes up with a better approach 13:41 * K2 nods 13:52 side topic - when an end user logs a help desk ticket to IT because they want a new workstation area setup with power, lights, outlets, etc 13:52 can you say 'facilities' ? 13:52 i knew you could! 14:00 can't spell facilities without IT 14:02 rebatela: you could argue that a typo is not a very wholesome reason to lose a game. most players will feel cheated by a type death. a typo death says "it wasn't my fault, it was just an accident" whereas an earned death says "you really suck" 14:05 ^ 14:07 Maybe you should make it so you can restore from a save 14:07 what is the point of permadeath if you can't accidentally fuck up and ruin the game you've been playing for hours? 14:07 :V 14:08 there's a difference between an unfair death versus a fair death 14:08 seriously. make items auto-id when you pick them up while you're at it. Making the descriptions cryptic just encourages price id and other degenerate behavior (ie playing the game) 14:08 wands engraving does auto-id if the messages are unique :-] 14:09 in unnethack 14:09 i'm against that too 14:09 :) 14:09 Oh okay this is one of those things where we take a running leap from "typo deaths kinda suck shit actually" to something like "why not make the game EaSy MoDe" 14:09 what's your opinion of pokedex and item lookup? 14:09 because nuance regarding levels of difficulty are something we stake before every single discussion like this 14:10 difficulty that's heavily reliant on a lack of QoL is fake imo 14:11 bhaak: we are coming at it from different angles. I don't have a game i'm trying to get people to play. I just get sad when the game that I've always loved for being hard gets easier. I'm a player. I don't have a variant 14:12 getting frustrated because you just died from something stupid is why i like nh. I've never quit. It kept me coming back. I played for decades before i ascended 14:12 game designers are players too dude 14:12 maybe we all have different definitions of easier 14:13 and thus I repeat: difficulty that's heavily reliant on a lack of QoL is fake imo 14:13 putting training wheels on it "Are you sure you want to take a dip in the drink? you're gonna blank all your scrolls and spellbooks? " makes it not fun (for me) 14:15 rebatela: well, at least *I* am not trying to make a game that appeals to players because it's easier. I try to make a game that is more interesting. unnecessary deaths are not interesting. difficulty because of spoilers you can look up on nethackwiki is not interesting. 14:15 how is it training wheels sorry? 14:15 I highly doubt variant designers have "easier than NetHack" in giant red letters at the top of their design documents 14:16 if you die, you should deserve it. 14:16 ^ 14:16 rebatela you dont have to worry about evilhack becoming easier. the next release overall will be a more challenging experience 14:17 you do have to worry about hawaiian shirts becoming more readable though 14:17 if i add/take away something that gives the appearance of making the game 'easier', there's a good reason for it, not soley to just make the game easier 14:17 shut up qt 14:17 * Umbire bops 14:17 I <3 hawaiian shirts 14:17 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Gia Fem Neu) changed form for the first time by mimicking a pile of gold, on T:3652 14:18 that you'd suggest that i want to make evilhack less evil... that hurts 14:18 there is a legitimate question begged re: typoing into water or lava vs., say, typoing into a floating eye 14:18 * K2 curls up into the fetal position 14:19 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Gia Fem Neu) had an axe entrusted to her by Odin, on T:3851 14:19 but then a couple of variants do make floating eyes less immediately lethal while still fucking you up long enough that you go "hm, should really be careful around these" 14:19