00:01 And he's near the bottom of the center room, one tile up from the downstair 00:03 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 25 points, T:146, killed by a water moccasin 00:06 K2: Thanks again 00:06 np 00:11 K2: https://allthetropes.org/w/index.php?title=NetHack/Characters&diff=1879139&oldid=1878225 00:11 ^was also doing it for this in addition to the NH wiki 00:13 cool 00:13 that's all changing when 0.7.0 goes live 00:14 orcus will be the only guaranteed demon prince you encounter 00:14 him plus 3 others 00:14 chosen at random, different every game 00:15 I mean that's for base NetHack 00:15 so you don't have to worry :B 00:15 ah 00:22 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 4654 points, T:4436, killed by a bolt of cold, while sleeping 00:22 Umbire: base nethack *is* evil. ;) 00:25 I think I'll try to wake Demo using a Bell, but for the moment, I can't think of any cheap ways of coming back up without using some form of teleportation (since I can't dig the wall of the upstairs). 00:26 I mean I can use upstairs for now, but won't be able to if I go deeper for the VS. 00:31 https://allthetropes.org/w/index.php?title=EvilHack&diff=1879140&oldid=1876364 bloop 00:37 are mindflayer larve good eating? Or will it kill me? 00:38 eraserhead97: as a giant I usually fill the upstairs room with boulders and then quaff a cursed potion of invis to wake him up. 00:38 He can't reach me and I pummel him with blessed shuriken. 00:39 you could do the same with an uncursed scroll of earth and acid blast him from the center of the boulders 00:39 Good idea 00:39 Also I'm not sure lol 00:40 K2: Verdict on flayer larva corpses? 00:41 bouquet wow - I didn't know about cursed pot of invis - gracias 00:42 I use that for rodney, too. I hate fighting him near the moat. I save one to summon him to the upstairs and fight him there 00:42 Yeah, it's been used to wake up the Master Assassin and ye Rodney 00:42 great trick with the upstairs room with boulders, too 00:42 essential for master assassin. 00:43 There IS also the drum of earthquake 00:43 I have a sneaking suspicion that Illithid Wizard is a little bit out of my skill set. 00:43 @arahael just don't melee any cockatrice (there might be matches to mitigate that risk - not sure) 00:44 s/matches/patches 00:44 arahael: I heard it was one of the most fun classes 00:44 free flying is nice. 00:44 bouquet: That's for sure. 00:45 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 361 points, T:383, killed by an arrow 00:46 can forges fix corroded armor? 00:46 can anything fix corroded armor? 00:47 Forges can fix corroded *metal* armour. 00:54 ^ that 00:54 there's also a spell called 'repair armor' which is awesome sauce 00:55 K2: Verdict on flayer larva corpses? <--- eh? 00:58 thanks. fixed 00:58 I asked if they're safe to eat. I tinned one. 00:58 bouquet: You may have to use the forge many times to repair the item, btw. 00:59 ya, took 3 times to recover from thoroughly corroded. 01:01 bouquet: Lukcy. 01:01 *lucky 01:01 bouquet: There's also the usual solution of "confused enchant armor" 01:07 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 736 points, T:1473, killed by a giant leech 01:07 rng has made enchant weapon, potions of confusion, and random wands of wishing very rare this game. 01:07 and none of the spells I learned have timed out yet 01:24 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 724 points, T:1601, killed by a giant bat 01:50 I forget - are dragons rideable via saddle? 01:57 Yes 01:57 Umbire coolios - ty 02:09 [hdf-us] [evil] eraserhead97 (Wiz Hob Mal Neu) killed the invisible Demogorgon, on T:78567 02:10 GJ 02:11 thx - demo was hard-assed - was almost in a state of perma-stun - drained me for 2 lvls 02:11 Yeah, he's a right bastard even by the standard 02:26 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 245 points, T:708, killed by a giant leech 02:30 gotta retrieve saddle from stash and ride the black D 02:32 pots of restore ability's so valuable now, gonna save them until after demo, vlad 02:33 They've always been valuable, just unihorn makes it hard to appreciate 02:33 Nerf makes it more obvious now, esp. with their long-time ability to restore levels 02:34 aye - VS found on Dlvl:57 02:52 is there a good way to traverse demo's lair? it seems like I have to use teleportation tricks to get through it, but how can I do that coming up with the amulet from the Sanctum? 02:53 cursed gain level about the only way? 02:53 Iunno, maybe? 02:53 I'm playing slow so I haven't gotten that far 02:53 I just remember bits and bots from others' playthroughs + unchanged things from vanilla 02:54 the upstairs is surrounded by unbreakable walls on demo's lair - Dlvl:54 for me 03:46 -!- Umbire has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:15 [hdf-us] [evil] eraserhead97 (Wiz Hob Mal Neu) killed the Abominable Snowman, on T:82341 04:45 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 796 points, T:2441, killed by an electric shock 04:45 That... Was quite a trapped chest. 05:21 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 1535 points, T:1967, killed by a gnome lord 05:50 [hdf-us] [evil] eraserhead97 (Wiz Hob Mal Neu) defeated Kathryn the Ice Queen, on T:83386 05:53 @K2 are you on? 05:54 @K2 I got a dmonsfree: 0 removed doesn't match 1 pending on Dlvl:27 Program in disorder! (Saving and reloading may fix this problem.) 05:54 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 05:56 Onyx is my pet Black Dragon that I'm riding. "Onyx's deadly hide disintegrates Kathryn the Ice Queen! Your actions have released Kathryn the Ice Queen from a powerful curse! You watch as Kathryn the Ice Queen undergoes a transformation, back into her original form. Kathryn the Enchantress motions for Koa and Ozzy to heel and stop their 05:56 attack." Then I got that error/warning message above. 05:56 eraserhead97: Damn, that's a good pet. 05:57 ya - I just FoD her dogs and the pet took care of Kathryn. 05:58 @K2 She respawned so maybe everything's fine after all. 06:03 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 1360 points, T:1798, killed by a werewolf 06:12 hello 06:12 Hello mobileuser, Welcome to #evilhack 06:13 saw some talk in the backscroll about spellbook of acid blast, I see that bouquet likes it 06:14 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 236 points, T:554, killed by a gnome 06:14 *sigh*. Killed by a gnome, wielding a *magical dagger*, which jolted me. 06:14 I tried it for the first time myself. It's useful, but for such a high level spell the damage disappointed me 06:15 Better get fire ball first, gets rid of most NPC's pretty quickly 06:16 mobileuser: You say that as if you can specifically choose to get it. 06:16 well I wished for acid blast 06:17 Ah. 06:17 I reckoned it would be risky to write 06:17 must take a lot of ink 06:17 If I were to wish for a spell, it'd probably be identify. 06:17 yeah but wizard 06:17 I just wrote identify 06:17 Fair enough. :) 06:19 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 321 points, T:452, killed by a falling rock 06:30 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Wiz Hob Mal Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:64737 06:30 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Wiz Hob Mal Neu) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:64740 06:32 @mobileuser that's useful info on fireball vs acid - ty! 06:33 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Wiz Hob Mal Neu) performed the invocation, on T:64746 06:40 stopping play to watch mobileuser 8^) 06:48 lol 06:49 food time! 06:49 mobileuser do msg when you get back on - I'm sure there's ton I can learn by watching 06:56 What!? Mountain nymphs ride lesser nightmares? 06:59 I've been seeing more and more mobs ride steeds. 07:07 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) killed Aphrodite, on T:3335 07:17 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 3598 points, T:4677, killed by a fire ant 07:17 go team a! 07:18 * arahael glares at eraserhead97. 07:18 fire ants are unusual - soldier ants are more common... ...but wizzy's are so squishy in the early game! 07:18 and ants so fast... 07:19 arahael oh... ...you're doing the MF race - how do you like it? 07:20 eraserhead97: I don't like that they're so squishy, but other than that MF's are awesome. 07:20 arahael gotta luv the brain-suck and the flying 07:20 Yep, and the psionic attack. 07:21 I use that heavily. The difficuly I have is somehow finding armour. 07:21 oh, I forgot about that - it's a passive attack? 07:21 No, it's an active attack. 07:21 Basically a spell. Uses 5 PW. 07:21 from #monster? 07:21 It's a regular spell you never forget. 07:21 ic - from Z 07:21 Even has a spellbook you always start with. 07:21 dang - LoL 07:21 wait - that implies anyone can learn it - what's the name of the spellbook? 07:22 uncursed spellbook of psionic wave (35 aum) 07:22 -!- amateurhour has joined #evilhack 07:22 psionic wave - LoL - I may have to try writing that one for fun - thx 07:22 I suspect it won't work. 07:22 But do find out. 07:23 eraserhead97: Oh, and their St is capped at 10. 07:23 that's weak 8^P 07:23 Only way to get more is to wear rings and/or GoP. 07:26 The early game is *very* hard. 07:26 (And I'm not good at evil, either, which doesn't help) 07:31 psionic wave doesn't work if you are not an illithid 07:31 sorry, will be afk for some hours ;-) 07:31 ah - good to know 07:31 np 07:32 I'll catch your ttyrecs if I don't catch u 07:32 mobileuser: It does work if you're poly'ed into a non-illithid, though. 07:32 (Pretty sure) 07:33 eraserhead97: Oh, and you can't wear any metal headgear. 07:47 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 2093 points, T:1905, killed by a vampire bat 07:56 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) murdered her faithful pseudodragon, on T:500 07:57 Oops. 08:01 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 656 points, T:830, killed by a rothe 08:01 Now, that was just being stupid. 08:04 -!- elenmirie__ has joined #evilhack 08:07 -!- elenmirie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:16 Ouch. St:5 08:17 eat some meat, WIMP 08:18 Too much poison. 08:18 eraserhead97 thanks for letting me know 08:29 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 1900 points, T:2153, killed by a dog 08:30 @K2 np 8^) 08:53 right, back to the game... 08:55 wewp 08:57 \o/ 08:57 \o/ 09:03 mobileuser is that confused taming that you're using? I had no idea about that ranged effect! 09:07 buc of taming scroll is immaterial, but confused taming increases range 09:07 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Wiz Hob Mal Neu) killed the high priest of Moloch, on T:64879 09:07 i always get frustrated watching someone bless taming scrolls 09:08 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Wiz Hob Mal Neu) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:64886 09:08 woohoo - the race is on! 09:18 @mobile I like your use of pets as a body-shield - v.nice 09:19 yeah I got the taming scrolls from polypiling 09:19 therefore blessed 09:19 confused taming is nicely OP :-) 09:19 cursed gain level also appears to be extremely useful 09:20 for certain levels, absolutely 09:20 eraserhead97: that's particularly nice on astral 09:21 I have one level (demo's) where I can't figure out any way to ascend without using cursed gain level 8^P 09:21 i get most of my scrolls in evilhack from polypiling. k2 nerf when 09:21 eraserhead97: what do you mean? 09:22 -!- Umbire has joined #evilhack 09:22 the upstairs is enclosed in a room of undiggable walls 09:22 sure 09:22 what's the trick? 09:22 after you kill demo or before? 09:22 after 09:22 no rick for me i just walk the level 09:23 +t 09:23 but how do you get into the room with the upstairs? 09:23 the door? 09:23 i mean, the door! 09:24 I saw no door when I was there last - does it appear after demo dies or is the RNG totally killing my auto-search? 09:24 there's always a door. directly w of the stairs 09:24 ^ 09:24 Probably the latter, though autosearch isn't 09:24 I'll double-search my instance the next time I go down 09:24 like, ultra reliable? 09:25 It's solid, granted, saves you a lot of s but you still have to do a fair bit 09:25 just use your stethoscope 09:25 ok - thx - I thought there was some weirdness/trick to that level - ah, stetho is SMART 09:25 ty 09:25 most valuable reason for a scope: searching 09:26 so every time i ascend evilhack i think, ok time to get some variation in a less strssful variant 09:26 then i look at the fta table and think, hmmm i should do that one 09:26 i'm a sucker 09:27 lol 09:27 brb 09:27 -!- Umbire has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:27 there's plenty of room for first time ascensions in slashem/slashthem :^) 09:28 i don't like those 09:28 oh how come? 09:28 same as dnh, just not my idea of fun 09:28 too different 09:28 how about xnh - I'm thinking about trying that post-evil 09:28 i think all xnh combos have been done 09:29 xnh is one of the best imo 09:29 you'll find xnh incredibly easy after evilhack haha 09:29 yeah all combos done and i've done all 13 roles too 09:29 v.nice! 09:29 have you thought about making your own variant hothraxxa? 09:29 hothack 09:29 not seriously 09:30 a hell of a lot of work 09:30 raxxahack 09:30 -!- Umbire has joined #evilhack 09:30 you've played through so many variants, and have a strong sense of what you like 09:30 so I'm sure it'd be epic 09:30 the last thing we need is more variant proliferation 09:30 ? 09:30 aosdict sweating cuz everyone would jump ship from xnh 09:30 oho, someone is afeared of competition! 09:31 hehehe - thinning out the player base? 09:31 it's a problem that variant developers never seem to agree enough to work together on a project 09:31 in terms of their design philosophy 09:31 * hothraxxa forks xnethack and starts hacking 09:31 I wonder, are most variants solo-projects? 09:32 for the most part variant devs tend to silo themselves away 09:32 only vanilla has multiple devs? 09:32 eraserhead97: yes. nh4 had multiple devs but all of them faded away so now it's just ais 09:32 gotta put your project manager hat on 09:32 depends on how you view it. qt has made a lot of contributions to evil 09:32 qt is a nethack ronin 09:32 ya - you're right - I just saw qt patch one earlier 09:32 dnh has a small group of people that actively contribute 09:33 evilhack, xnh, vanilla, he does what takes his fancy 09:33 but development dies down when people get busy irl 09:33 unfortunate, but makes sense 09:33 if i did make a variant i really would start with xnh 09:33 yeah I'm not saying that people can't work together on nethack variants code wise 09:34 just that most of them have divergent enough philosophies that they end up siloed 09:34 and yes dnh is a positive exception 09:34 if someone was like "here's what I'm planning on working on, here's it broken down into smaller objectives" 09:34 then plenty of bored fans would participate I think 09:34 just curious: "how many" are on the vanilla team? (regular contributors) 09:35 i had a collection of documents that laid out ideas from various developers 09:35 eraserhead97: in terms of who commits, 4 09:35 aosdict, jonadab, ais 09:35 ic - small enough not to disagree... ...too much 09:36 then there are people like ais and keni who have committed in the past but I'm not counting because it's not a regular thing for them 09:36 and then a bunch of people who seem to never do anything publicly visible 09:36 @aosdict do you end up spending more time on vanilla or xnh? (no judgments - just curious) 09:37 I am cursed to want to fix vanilla problems 09:37 because then I get them in xnh 09:37 ic 09:37 however over the course of making xnh 6.0 it got a little out of hand 09:37 I felt like I was spending all my time doing vanilla stuff 09:38 aosdict can into dev team? 09:38 (also note, I'm not on the devteam, which is a common misconception for some reason) 09:38 I wouldn't complain if you were 09:39 you don't have to think of everything 09:39 so now I'm trying out a thing where I have these lists of vanilla bugs and patches, but will only have one open issue/PR at a time. devteam addresses it, great, I'll do the next one. 09:39 personally, I think evil is good enough that I won't return to playing vanilla. I have a feeling that xnh will be the same way. I'll probably just end up playing evil/xnh. 09:40 i like most of the variants, at least the ones i play. not fond of sporkhack 09:40 i think fourk is underestimated 09:41 I'm so used to vanilla that I'm afraid/not interested in variants that stray too far away, but I figure that'll change as my nh-playing universe expands. 09:41 i think slashem is underrated, seemingly noone plays it 09:42 it's busted in a lot of ways (fixed in slashthem) 09:42 slashem seems insane/out-of-control for new players (imo) 09:42 fourk's problem is poor visibility, there's a lot of good stuff in it 09:42 slashem introduces too many changes to appeal to me 09:42 well, that and glacial development 09:43 oh! Fourk is a nh4 variant - ic 09:43 it's not that different really, things like dual-wielding artifacts etc are in other variants now 09:43 fourk has colour alchemy, which really means no alchemy unless you get really lucky, then alchemy is way op 09:43 a lot of nastier monsters that can screw you, not quite as bad as alhoons 09:44 isn't there a variant that is Tolkien-like or am I getting confused with some other rogue-like? 09:45 i am not aware of such 09:45 there's a roguelike called Moria and there's a Moria dungeon branch in some variants like unnethack 09:45 You're thinking of bands, Eraser 09:45 oh, unnethack also underrated 09:45 hothraxxa: wait it does? I'm confused, doesn't that directly contradict jonadab's design principle of "the game shouldn't make hidden decisions at the beginning that affect how easy it'll be"? 09:45 As in, of the Ang variety 09:46 yeah - I think you're right - must've been angband - for some reason, I couldn't get into it the last time I tried 09:46 me neither, played for like 30 mins and had no idea what I was doing 09:47 It's more JRPG-y and you have a hometown to return do between dives 09:47 Same general RL spirit, different angle 09:47 also combat is fucking brutal iirc 09:47 aosdict: i might be mixing it up, i can't find a reference on the wiki so i probably am wrong 09:47 in comparison to NH 09:47 I want to try angband again at some point, and DCSS as everyone seems to love that 09:47 Same 09:48 but there's so many great nethack variants first... 09:49 ya - DCSS seems to be super-popular 09:50 dcss apparently has nerfbat syndrome 09:50 "players found a good strategy, nerf it" 09:50 ah, it's unnethack with colour alchemy. sorry about that 09:50 also, isn't that dev syndrome in general? 09:51 maybe it's a rogue-like-dev syndrome (it's >supposed< to be hard) 09:51 idk if it's meant to be hard or if it's meant to be fair 09:52 i find it a bit silly that almost every good strategy gets nerfed in one variant or another 09:52 I think the game's more fun when players come up with clever solutions 09:52 like purple rain and black rain are so fun and clever 09:53 j1: demon lords can walk over boulders when 09:53 hahaha - I love the rains! 09:53 mobileuser has been doing wooly mammoth rain 09:53 whoever came up with the original purple rain strategy is amazing 09:53 well, good strategy is not the same as cheesy, optimal strategy that you're stupid if you don't follow 09:54 i don't know who that was. it's been around for a long time 09:54 hothraxxa wtf - brown rain? that sounds disgusting 09:54 someone should add a snippet of the lyrics from Purple Rain to the encyclopedia entry for it 09:54 yeah - whoever came up with purple rain was a genius, in my book 09:55 in custom with nethack encyclopedia "sometimes the quotes are irrelevant" style 09:55 I hope skipping sokoban with eota never gets removed 09:55 there's an encyclopedia entry for purple rain? it doesn't ven have a wiki entry 09:55 and polyself giant strats 09:56 hothraxxa: no I mean it should get added 09:56 there should be a wiki page at least 09:56 a "Creative Strategies" page listing strats like Purple Rain would be >great< 09:58 I thought "pudding farming" was also really interesting - even though I don't think that's possible any more 09:58 that was also rather creative 09:59 and really tedious 09:59 i didn't start playing till after that was removed 10:00 same with throne looting 10:00 I haven't heard of throne looting - what's that about? 10:00 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Farming#Throne_farming 10:00 pudding farming is still relevant only because there are popular 3.4.3 variants 10:00 throne farming was possibly worse than pudding farming in my book 10:01 rofl - I didn't know there was a farming page 10:03 Grasshopper invented 'purple rain' afaik 10:03 xnethack is fun, and unnethack is one of my favs 10:03 grunthack/sporkhack too but i can get their feel just from playing evilhack 10:04 with a lot less bugs 10:04 i like grunt 10:04 my grunthack asc record may be safe for a long while 10:04 if you can get to mid-game, grunt becomes a bit insane 10:04 unless hothraxxa gets a bug up his ass 10:04 hmm 10:05 I find the harder variants too hard, I'm just not smart 10:05 pfft 10:05 you've ascended dnh 10:06 dnh isn't hard, it's a pleasant hack n slash 10:06 that's a harder than vanilla variant 10:06 just do all the optional content and you're overprepared for anything 10:06 need to do some stuff that makes xnh clearly at least as hard as vanilla, so I can scrub away the reputation of "easy variant" 10:06 dnh is too foreign for me 10:07 xnh is not an easy variant 10:07 aosdict you can start by getting rid of the paranoid 10:07 :) 10:07 wow - I just finished reading about "Death Farming" - that's >sick< 10:07 xnh isn't difficult or easy, it's just nice and enjoyable 10:07 imo 10:08 who's saying it's easier than vanilla? 10:08 tbh i don't know how easy vanilla is any more 10:08 i find it a bit easier than vanilla 10:09 i was able to get a 4 streak 10:09 that *never* happens for me 10:09 except xnh 10:09 I've only played vanilla during tnnt, I still find it hard 10:09 xnh helps prevent YASDs? 10:10 amateurhour: generally people who think fake interface-screw difficulty is real difficulty 10:10 my streak for xnh is 3 10:10 paranoid_confirmation: AscendForMe when? 10:11 in general I think it is easier because it provides a lot of qol without doing anything huge that ups the difficulty 10:12 *cough*alhoon*cough* 10:12 lol 10:12 I'm still in awe at how easy you guys make the variants seem 10:12 just casually busting out evilhack ascensions left and right 10:12 only mobileuser does that 10:13 vaderflag too i guess 10:13 not to sound all soppy but I'm glad we're in the same junethack team, and can't wait for next one! 10:14 worst thing about junethack: 1000 turns of slex 10:14 hah 10:14 haha I'm thinking of writing a guide to getting mines/ruggo/soko trophy in slex without getting ill 10:15 i actually managed that once 10:15 dont get me wrong, nethack in the grand scheme of things is not easy. xnethack is not a walk in the park. i just feel it takes some of the edge off vs vanilla 10:15 outliers are people like Tariru 10:15 this is something i feel developers sometimes lose sight of. most people can't beat vanilla 10:16 yet when a serial ascender finds a good strategy, nerf that 10:16 variants typically arent made for new players to the nethack franchise 10:16 lol porkman's strategies were all removed after ascending 10:16 for sure 10:17 amy is a far outlier 10:17 if someone came here wanting to play evilhack and they had never played anything nethack related before, i'd advise them to play vanilla first 10:17 yeah i was trying to guide roho away from learning on slex. not much success :( 10:17 can lead a horse to water... 10:18 poor roho 10:18 maybe they feel they need to be punished for some past transgression 10:18 i really think the best starting place is nh4 10:19 yeah 10:19