00:02 -!- stenno has joined #evilhack 00:07 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:02 [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] https://git.io/JYkWm 01:02 [EvilHack] k21971 fad90c7 - Some rumor tweaks. 01:35 -!- hothraxxa has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:35 -!- hothraxxa has joined #evilhack 03:17 -!- Umbire has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:17 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 03:17 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 3363 points, T:3407, killed by a wolf 03:59 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 1611 points, T:2576, killed by an Aleax of Tyr 04:04 -!- stenno has joined #evilhack 04:08 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:26 -!- amateurhour has joined #evilhack 04:30 -!- elenmirie__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:30 -!- elenmirie__ has joined #evilhack 05:08 -!- stenno has joined #evilhack 05:38 So. Just found minetown: 05:38 > Juiblex engulfs you! You feel deathly sick. 05:39 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 2803 points, T:1238, killed by Juiblex 05:44 bones? 05:44 Yep. 05:45 if that left bones again, Juiblex has hopefully disappeared now... 05:45 Unlikely. 05:46 in evilhack a killer can take some loot and disappear from the bones if I remember correctly 05:47 Interesting. 05:47 Unfair. :) 06:03 lol, the disadvantage of healing = smoky: an NPC just got a smoky wish 06:05 What did it wish for? 06:11 unclear... 06:14 maybe an amulet of LS, because I had to kill it twice 06:28 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 6271 points, T:2916, killed by a giant cockroach 06:28 G'night! 06:28 sleep well! 07:37 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack 08:19 -!- VaderFLAG has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:20 -!- VaderFLAG has joined #evilhack 09:15 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the Wizard of Yendor, on T:51475 09:15 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Tou Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:51478 09:17 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Tou Hum Fem Neu) performed the invocation, on T:51487 09:19 gg 09:19 thx! 09:23 jinx 09:24 :P 09:25 well I wished him gg too :-) 09:27 heh 09:27 so new side branch is basically done 09:27 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 610 points, T:1305, killed by a gnome lord 09:27 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 0 points, T:7, killed by a water elemental, while vomiting 09:27 ^ epic 09:28 new vecna-3 map - https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/6d1b3c87cf0018ed106245537a48d69e2ca77b99 09:29 looks bad delet 09:29 just kidding looks great 09:29 heh 09:29 guessing the lack of wall on one side is like it's a bit of ruin 09:29 load it up in wizmode 09:30 urgh #effort 09:30 but for you, I will do this 09:30 lol 09:30 errmahgerd so hard to git pull make all && make install 09:30 K2: using || next to each other as walls reeeee 09:30 :P 09:30 try compile with asan again btw and go in wizmode and poly and/or wish 09:30 mobileuser: you doing the ritual motivated me to play my game ! 09:31 aosdict i know right? i tried 09:31 made it past the ;'s i was dreading 09:31 amateurhour i dont know what i'm doing in asan 09:31 rebatela nice! you got this! 09:31 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 104 points, T:492, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted water demon 09:32 mobileuser: thanks! you too! 09:32 (I cowardly quaff cursed !oGL at that point) 09:32 just play the game as normal and asan will cause a crash with an error report when there's badness and sadness afoot with memory 09:32 i would have if i had one 09:33 well, you got past it, that's the main thing 09:33 bloody ; 09:33 There was one game where somehow I stockpiled like 20 or 30 !oGL on the vibrating square level, and I don't remember how I did it 09:33 poly? 09:33 looks great K2 09:33 thanks 09:34 also looks really annoying 09:34 works as intended 09:34 hah 09:34 at least Vecna wont come after you until you actually attack it 09:35 noteleport... 09:35 Vecna is a new boss? 09:35 yes 09:35 for some reason I thought it was an artifact! 09:35 eye of vecna, yes 09:35 that level look dope 09:35 oic 09:35 this is an optional side branch 09:35 however, you wont be able to geno liches or alhoons until vecna is dead 09:35 is the drawbridge really meant to be on the left? 09:36 amateurhour yes 09:36 oh okay 09:36 liches aren't that bad, but F alhoons and everything that looks like alhoons 09:36 evil boss monsters dont make it easy to enter their homes 09:38 well good news rebatela, to get to vecna you'll have to get past liches and maybe some alhoons 09:38 at least one alhoon 09:38 maybe 2 09:38 and a few master/arch liches 09:38 and a gaggle of liches/demiliches 09:39 and Vecna's lieutenant, Kas 09:39 not quite as strong as vlad but he's up there 09:40 it's not so much alhoons that I don't like. It's the new amnesia 09:40 vanilla nerfed flayers so hard... couldnt let that stand :) 09:40 I feel like amnesia was nerfed for most roles (non spellcasters/martial artists) 09:41 going from grand master to basic in martial arts and forgetting all your spells sucks 09:41 it can basically be a death sentence 09:41 i'd rather forget some maps/items 09:41 at least spells can be re-learned fairly quickly if you can get away 09:42 but for most roles it's a huge nerf 09:42 presumably got the spellbooks knocking around somewhere 09:42 for martial arts it takes ages to get back, but I'm not sure if that's because there's a bug or something where it sets training to lower than the skill level you're at 09:43 takes ages it's not the same as only being basic with your +7 grayswandir or whatever 09:43 so you don't have to do just master->grand master but have to do basic->grand master despite being treated as master 09:44 hmm i see something 09:45 so old amnesia, it was 33% chance on forgetting objects or levels 09:45 when i swapped those out (per vanilla) and added in drain_weapon_skill (also per vanilla), its always 100% 09:45 that should prob be 33% chance just like the things before it 09:46 or some % chance 09:46 whilst poking around there could you check what it does to the amount of training? 09:46 not 100 09:46 yeah thats easy, its based on your luck 09:46 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 480 points, T:1418, zombified by a gnome zombie 09:46 WHILST 09:47 drain_weapon_skill(rnd(u.uluck <= 0 ? 5 : 3)); 09:48 it's probably different in evilhack, and it's been a long time since I've used a weapon. But I don't remember weapon skills even mattering much and obviously if you don't cast spells that doesn't matter 09:49 since we're talking about it and i'm venting- Where did the amnesia change come from? evil? 09:49 vanilla 09:49 so some dev team member got tired of forgetting maps? 09:49 but in vanilla flayers dont cause any kind of amnesia now 09:50 oh what do they do ? 09:50 basically just int drain 09:50 what a joke 09:50 its still dangerous, but they really got nerfed 09:50 why are they making the game easier? 09:50 i thought they drained skills in vanilla 09:51 K2 it looks like you delete all training? 09:51 not sure what skill_record actually tracks 09:51 flayers don't but scroll of amnesia does I think hothraxxa 09:52 ok. not a vanilla player 09:52 have been screwed with training drain in evilhack though 09:52 i mean, if you don't want to deal with it you can genocide mindflayers (talking about vanilla. the old one). That's the whole point of conducts 09:52 silly to make the game easier at this point 09:53 i almost never genocide mind flayers in evilhack. too many higher priorities 09:53 same goes with mysterious force (I know i'm alone on this one), canceling your boh etc. 09:53 it'd probably be better to not delete all training if that's what occured, but set the training to the amount of the new skill level 09:53 exploding boh* 09:53 [hdf-us] [evil] post163 (Wiz Dwa Fem Neu), 0 points, T:1, killed by a bolt of fire 09:53 I think that explains why people are talking about having to train lots before seeing percentage in enhance 09:53 yes exactly 09:53 hothraxxa in vanilla the only thing that will drain training is reading a scroll of amnesia 09:54 i brought in the amnesia revamp from vanilla but then un-nerfed flayers 09:54 https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/321b894a2f948084efcf6668efcf57e5183a60c0 09:55 perhaps you recall me mentioning that after i got skill drained i couldn't train the skill, or at least it didn't show 09:55 I might be reading it wrong but that's what it sounds like K2 ^ 09:55 might be a vanilla bug 09:55 slash oversight 09:55 hothraxxa you then said 'oh wait, its training back up' 09:55 next maybe they can expand elbereth, or maybe make it so you can restore from save if you die! 09:55 then after a long time it started to train again, yes 09:56 yeah i tested that in wizmode 09:56 i didnt see anything wrong 09:56 IT'S VERY WRONG 09:56 lol 09:56 GOOD DAY TO YOU SIR 09:56 there's no delay in training back up, you just start at the bottom 09:56 try training the skills instead of using the wiz command K2 09:56 i did amateurhour 09:56 it works 09:56 takes forever to do martial arts... 09:56 you saw in wizmode that the 0% didn't advance for a long time? 09:57 wizmode doesnt show it that way 09:57 -!- qt has joined #evilhack 09:57 there wasn't even a 0% 09:57 wizmode shows the actual points 09:57 maybe there's a bug in the display 09:57 and if it happens somehwere deep in the dungeon you ain't fighting your way out with unskilled or whatever and all your spells forgotten 09:57 rebatela yeah that's rough. dont let flayers suck your brains 09:58 i don't 09:58 problem solved :) 09:58 problem will re-emerge in 0.7 ;-) 09:58 but the alhoons warp to you 09:58 they do 09:58 helmet + grease = yay 09:59 oilskin fedora of awesomeness = more yay 09:59 does an oilskin or greased cloak prevent salamanders from dragging you into lava? 09:59 for 1 turn yay? 09:59 qt yes 09:59 not really. what happened to me was somebody summoned a mater mid flayer right next to me. i teleported it away on the next turn and there were no messages about it sucking my brain and no intelligence loss, but whe i checked i had no skill left in $weapon 09:59 qt yes 09:59 grr master mind flayer 09:59 I've never reied on grease to save the day 09:59 relied* 09:59 does their hug burn the cloak or something? 09:59 oh it's ok! i'm wearing grease 09:59 hothraxxa it has to successfully attack you first 10:00 sure and there was no message to that effect yet it did 10:00 it cant just show up and you forget things 10:00 qt maybe? i can check 10:01 I guess not because they can't successfully grab you in the first place 10:02 this is the commit that changed the skill training display - https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/68b383e62193b2fab232ec513f058d7805888064 10:02 ugh formatting issues... 10:02 I am very paranoid about salamanders ever since I heard they can pull you into the lava, doubly so after finding bouquet's bones 10:03 yeah it's happened to all of us 10:03 really sucks 10:03 i was grabbed by one next to lava but i had a tooled horn 10:03 so, i'm going to tweak it a bit so you dont get hit with skill drain on *every single attack* 10:03 they can even do it to giants. they must be HUMUNGOUS salamanders... 10:04 they hug your shin 10:04 ankle biter 10:04 like xans 10:04 they blend into the lava too 10:05 can salamanders be geno'd? that's not a bad one 10:05 again, low priority 10:06 that would be a good true rumor, a warning about salamanders being able to lavahug you 10:06 if there isn't one already 10:06 things in evilhack that MUST be genoed: 1) alhoon 2) vampire mage 10:06 disagree about vampire mage 10:07 the only one i need to geno is alhoon for reasons vented above 10:07 blessed geno is almost useless in evilhack, even more so in next version 10:07 Liches are a pita but not necessary 10:07 drain_weapon_skill(rnd(u.uluck <= 0 ? 5 : 3)); <--- that may have been ok for vanilla since it would only occur if you read a scroll of amnesia. that is prob too much for flayer attacks 10:07 maybe dumb that down to ? 3 : 1 10:07 mobileuser: why? not been constantly mobbed by summon nasties? 10:07 hothraxxa: what's different in next version re: blessed geno? 10:08 you can't geno L until after vecan 10:08 i don't have a problem with vampire mage 10:08 vecan 10:08 I use taming a lot 10:08 rebatela - in next version you wont be able to geno any liches or alhoons until vecna is destroyed 10:08 mobileuser likes the tame them i think 10:08 somebody like that 10:08 k2: yes I've heard 10:08 you asked though 10:08 oh tame vampire mage. requires taming 10:08 no i asked why blessed geno would be less useful 10:09 [hdf-us] [evil] post163 (Wiz Hob Fem Neu) murdered her faithful pseudodragon, on T:1 10:09 i didn't know if there were other changes 10:09 because the only reasonable use for blessed geno now is L 10:09 ok 10:09 so after you kill vecna and want to geno L, isn't it the same? or does killing him genocide them? 10:09 killing it? 10:09 ok some tweaks to skill drain incoming, i just need to test a couple things first 10:09 hewr? 10:10 I also use blessed L for ; 10:10 (two) 10:10 qt: "A salamander is very like a giant eel"? 10:10 rebatela, killing vecna unlocks being able to geno alhoons and L 10:10 it would be the same but by definition the usefulness of blessed geno is reduced 10:12 [hdf-us] [evil] post163 (Wiz Hob Fem Neu), 444 points, T:1213, killed by a rabid rat 10:14 Oh because people just won't do the branch and deal with L and alhoons? 10:14 I guess it's going to depend on how hard the branch is/how good the artifact is/other loot, but it's sounding like it's not going to be all that "optional" 10:14 or will it be like Ludios? 10:15 what do you mean 'like Ludios?' 10:15 Because anyone who would be able to deal with liches and alhoons is probably good enough to do the vecna branch, so why wouldn't you? 10:15 oh i mean like it's easy to skip 10:16 whereas the mines and soko most people do in regular games 10:16 sure, its an optional branch 10:16 not required 10:16 yeah i get it. just wondering how it will play out in reality 10:16 if you wanted to go for genoless conduct, you could still complete the vecna branch, just dont geno L or alhoons afterwards 10:16 right 10:17 everyone will want to play evilhack, because that and rodney with mr or reflection 10:17 i've always thought it was pretty silly that the "WIZARD OF YENDOR" didn't have magic resistance... 10:18 you shut the fuck up you 10:18 lol 10:19 just wait until you get the first double trouble both with mr 10:19 that's going to make it tough for people who use quets artifacts for MR (me) because he'll have so many opportunities to steal as you're standing there meleeing or whatever 10:20 plus 1/20 of stealing amulet i believe as well 10:20 i like it though 10:21 he wont always spawn with reflection or mr 10:21 i think i made it 50/50 chance 10:21 yeah, but each time he appears right? 10:21 he'll also have a robe and a pointy hat 10:21 rebatela yeah 10:21 NICE 10:22 my very first 3.6 ascension, or whenever it was when he began stealing OTHER roles' artifact, he stole PYEC from me so now not only did I not have MR, but HE DID 10:22 https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/f3542caf7668ea0ba761d167ad2859ea917b9805 10:22 hey, a robe? what's his source of mr, the amulet? 10:22 yeah its 50/50 10:23 yes 10:27 ok so first off, switched wizmode to show the enchanced skill % menu, just like what the player sees 10:27 now i can properly test some things 10:30 ooh yeah that's harsh... i should have adjusted those values from the beginning 10:30 this amnesia revamp is a year old almost to the day 10:32 training back up appears to be fine 10:33 had skills drop from max to unskilled, i go to retrain, the % increments as it should per successful hit/spell cast 10:36 K2 sometimes you drop from max to skilled 10:36 but then it takes ages to reach max again 10:37 of course it does, the # of points requires to get from skilled to expert is a lot 10:37 *required 10:37 yeah ok it only seems like that with the display bug 10:37 you train and train and see nothing happening 10:38 do the points reset to 0 but the skill only drops to skilled? 10:38 the % display is in whole integer increments 10:39 2 wands of death from player monsters on this run so far! should have saved my wishes until i go to the top 10:39 to go from skilled to expert is 140 points (180 to 320) 10:40 are you still at molochs mobileuser? 10:40 yeah 10:40 i'm up to 43 10:40 nice! 10:40 expert to master is 180 points (320 to 500) 10:40 just entered the temple 10:40 itym expert to master 10:40 we have similar turn counts. you have few thousand less i think 10:40 master to grand master 220 points (500 to 720) 10:40 and like 25 better AC :( 10:40 heh 10:41 it doesnt look like the new % display handles decimals 10:41 so no 0.1% to 10:41 K2 a horror reading a scroll of teleport managed to teleport in the sanctum 10:41 a balrog failed 10:41 huh 10:41 yup 10:41 can you add that to the pad please? 10:42 oh ok then :b 10:42 k2 are those training points requirement somewhere on the wiki? 10:42 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Tou Hum Fem Neu) killed the high priest of Moloch, on T:51728 10:42 no idea 10:42 does the restriction on teleporting apply to level tele too? could he have read a cursed scroll and the other guy read an uncursed one? 10:43 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Tou Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:51732 10:43 they are different from vanilla by a good margin 10:43 \o/ 10:43 qt he remained on the level, in a different spot 10:44 nice 10:44 that's intriguing 10:44 hothraxxa no they arent 10:44 those numbers i quoted, i got from vanilla wizmode just now 10:45 i didnt change how much it costs to train 10:45 ok. then the wiki is out of date 10:45 link? 10:46 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Skill#Technical_details 10:47 oh... i was quoting max 10:47 hmm 10:47 i know. the numbers are still wrong 10:48 not wrong, disagree with the wiki. 10:48 clearly if you got those from wizmode then the wiki is the thing that's wrong 10:49 hmm no i get it 10:49 the wiki is correct 10:49 what i see in wizmode is a bit misleading 10:49 martial arts Grand Master 20( 720) 10:49 ^ i got to 500 to get grand master, max is 720 10:50 when you get drained from grandmaster one level 10:50 does it go to 320 10:50 ok so to get from skilled (80) to expert (180) 10:51 from the 500 that you earned 10:52 amateurhour: i suspect points get reset to 0, and that's why the percentage for training doesn't show up for a long time 10:52 that's what I suspect as well 10:53 which is cruel for a monk relying on martial arts 10:53 yeah especially when marts is trained at 75% rate 10:53 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Neu) killed Asmodeus, on T:55179 10:54 if that is what happens then your skill level should be set to untrained. problem solved 10:54 haha 10:54 i'm not sure how to have it show decimals 10:54 like 0.3% 10:54 etc 10:55 not worth it. display <1% 11:00 does xnethack have alhoons? 11:01 nope, only evilhack, dnethack, and slex have monsters called alhoons iirc 11:01 and the dnh and slex ones are pushovers 11:02 yay votd 11:03 hothraxxa oooh that's a good idea 11:04 :) 11:04 it feels like that anyway 11:04 seriously go get drained somewhere as a monk (not in wizmode, actually play) and see how much amnesia was "nerfed" 11:06 rebatela, it was nerfed in vanilla. i un-nerfed what vanilla nerfed 11:06 argh. wasn't this the game where my shambling horrors undressed me? I don't want to fight these things over water... 11:07 oh nvm i'm flying 11:11 my shambling horrors are afraid of tooled horns, which helps a bit 11:12 in my last ascension, the shambling horrors would tentacle suck me but never drain anything. they also had displacement and a gaze of confusion 11:13 not too horrible on the whole 11:13 mine have a lightning attack that can vaporise stuff :-) 11:18 yeah mine do all sorts of stuff, tentacle attack, the foocubi thing and they are super fast 11:28 they undress you? in public? that's indecent 11:28 this sounds like a job for... mr. wandopoly! 11:34 hmm this isnt simple 11:34 showing < 1% 11:35 i dont have a solution for the display for now, just understand that training back up from skilled or higher to next level, the spread is greater than 100, therefore you wont see '1%' show for awhile 11:35 at least this is how i understand it 11:35 in regular wizmode, you can watch the points increment with each hit 11:35 it just takes a lot of points at the higher skill levels 11:38 what's the complication? 11:39 me 11:39 i think you should just switch mindflayers/mmf/alhoons back to the old forget ID and Maps 11:39 if it ain't broke 11:39 ^ no 11:39 can't you do if percentage < 1 then display "<1%" else display percentage 11:39 some dev team member who barely plays the game got amnesia and changed the freaking game 11:39 hothraxxa it doesnt do float... the values are whole integers 11:40 ah 11:40 there is no 0.6 or 1.3 or whatever 11:40 yeah 11:41 won't percentage then stay 0 until it is at least 1? 11:42 rebatela: I prefer the old forget ID and maps too, it made mind flayer encounters a lot more intense and scary 11:42 yeah but then everything will show as <1% 11:42 but I think with alhoons that can teleport to you, that would be way too nasty 11:42 it really depends on the role 11:43 well it is! 11:43 yeah the points increment as they should 11:44 the 'bug' in this instance is that the new % display doesnt handle increments between 0 and 1 11:45 ok so that bit is figured out, now on to adjusting the skill drain itself 11:45 the problem as i had it meant that i stopped trying to train because i didn't think i could anymore. it was only through incedental use later that i noticed that i was actually training 11:45 incidental 11:45 ascendental 11:46 ^ things done to ascend 11:46 eg obtaining the amulet 11:46 highly ascendental 11:51 K2 just want to check, you say the points increment as they should 11:52 what does your 500 points get decremented to when the skill is drained? 11:52 alhoons should disintegrate all your weapons and cancel all wands. then it would be equivalent to what it does to monk game with martial arts/spells 11:52 amateurhour its variable 11:53 is it above 320 11:53 see https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/321b894a2f948084efcf6668efcf57e5183a60c0#diff-066fddfcbb2e327a2f4053d7e74b1fb95159d0b95398bb3255f75384ca230c33R1600 11:53 ah sometimes it is, yes 11:53