00:00 thanks, k2 00:01 That seems distressingly logical, yes 00:05 i gotta sleeeeep 00:05 gnite all o/ 00:08 Night 00:34 I still think rolling or moving a boulder onto any food should create "pancake". 00:38 lol 00:38 that'd beg the question of why it didn't flatten other items, though 00:38 and before you know it you've blown up most players' stashing strategy and they're all malding at you 00:40 I'm quite OK with that development! 00:40 It should indeed crush glass items! 00:42 See the glass thing I'd be absolutely with you on 00:42 (and I am) 00:42 but generally NHINRL and all 00:43 Yeah, well, in real life, I wouldn't call squashed squirrel a "pancake" either. ;) 00:48 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 5352 points, T:3439, killed by a panther 00:48 AC:10 is tricky. 01:05 -!- stenno2 has joined #evilhack 01:10 -!- stenno2 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:54 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Kni Elf Fem Cha), 454 points, T:1767, killed by a sewer rat 01:57 -!- stenno2 has joined #evilhack 02:05 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) became literate by reading a book, on T:4001 02:07 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 3922 points, T:4116, killed by a gnome lord, while praying 02:14 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 1146 points, T:1950, zombified by an orc zombie 02:14 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Rog Hob Mal Neu), 23 points, T:45, killed by a boulder 02:23 Hmm. Wonder what I should genocide with a blessed scroll of genocide. Mind flayers are not an option. 02:25 Did you read it already? 02:25 If not then how far along are you in the game 02:27 Early game. But I rarely survive beyond dthe early game. 02:27 Not yet read it, though./ 02:27 I'm thinking of saving it until I'm in trouble. 02:30 Yeah, that's an emergency read 02:49 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 02:50 -!- amateurhour has joined #evilhack 02:58 -!- commonlylen has joined #evilhack 03:03 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:4833 03:08 -!- Umbire has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:13 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (two random monsters from class C), on T:3491 03:19 emergency genocide? 03:30 -!- commonlylen has quit [K-Lined] 03:43 Yep. 03:43 I had 6 HP, and had recently pray'ed. 04:02 -!- tinklebear has joined #evilhack 04:09 Stupid nymph, it wasn't carrying a potion. 04:10 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 5228 points, T:5808, killed by an owlbear, while praying 04:11 That was an unbelievably bad RNG run 04:11 Every time I almost got out of the corridor, another crazy powerful monster for my level appeared. 04:11 For over 1000 turns. 04:36 [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 6144 points, T:1366, killed by an orc-captain 04:37 Hmm, I still find monks much easier - that one was bad luck, though - Expensive Camera only scared the orc captain for two turns. 04:37 [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Elf Mal Cha) murdered Vita Fidelia, his faithful lesser nightmare, on T:3742 05:08 [hdf-au] [evil] PeachMuffin (Bar Orc Fem Cha), 910 points, T:2129, killed by colliding with the ceiling 05:11 Interesting way to die. 05:36 !lastgame PeachMuffin 05:36 mobileuser: [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/P/PeachMuffin/evilhack/dumplog/1612514224.evil.html 05:38 levitating while confused has that effect? 05:38 cursed levi pot generally I think 05:38 unless you're on the upstairs you hit the roof 05:39 TIL 05:39 I wonder what happens in xnh if you're outside... 05:51 -!- stenno3 has joined #evilhack 05:53 -!- stenno2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:01 -!- stenno4 has joined #evilhack 06:01 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Val Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed mithril amulet of flying", on T:36629 06:03 -!- stenno3 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:11 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Val Hum Fem Neu) wished for "blessed +2 dragonhide T-shirt of decay", on T:36749 06:13 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Val Hum Fem Neu) made her first artifact wish - "blessed +2 Dragonbane", on T:36762 06:51 Hmmm a mordor orc just dropped Grayswandir 06:53 saber skill is only basic for valk, but even so... 06:55 still worth :D 06:56 absolutely 07:28 -!- Umbire has joined #evilhack 07:45 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack 07:50 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Law) performed his first genocide (alhoons), on T:28855 07:52 Yo rebatela 07:55 yo 07:56 How's it goin'. 08:07 [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Wiz Gno Mal Cha), 1180 points, T:2111, killed by a Mordor orc 08:09 shame that 2-weaponing when you only have basic skill in one of the weapons is so shitty in evilhack 08:09 the to-hit penalty is killing 08:12 admittedly I haven't checked the enchantment on gray yet and I'm only level 13 :-) 08:12 0:1 wand dammit 08:12 me too! 08:12 lol 08:12 who needs wishes, right? 08:13 I had such a long wish list... :b 08:13 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Law) wished for "blessed greased fixed +5 mitre of holiness", on T:30744 08:13 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Law) killed the invisible Arch Priest, on T:30749 08:14 Arch Priest demolished in record time 08:14 Sick 08:15 Barely had time to blink 08:15 * Umbire makes notes for troping of EvilHack 08:15 i thought it would be nalzok. i forgot 08:16 now i can go kill kaen. i didn't want to create that artifact 08:16 til i wished for mitre 08:17 my PW sucks in this game ! i have 49... Last game i had over 100 at this point. Is that just based on Wis? I had 18 wis last time 08:17 Yeah, it's Wisdom based 08:19 if you have polycontrol you could try to reroll once wisdom is 18? 08:21 I'd go with gain ability and/or search spamming personally 08:21 Polyself *might* be an option but iono how viable 08:22 I've only done that with Infidel demon so far 08:24 start as orc, become demon by getting crowned, reroll for massive Pw gain 08:24 so yeah, polyself is maybe not so great in other cases 08:26 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Law) wished for "blessed greased fixed +5 dragonhide speed boots", on T:31115 08:26 Hmmmm 08:26 What would you consider "boss-level non-boss enemies" in Evil, you two? 08:28 Alhoon 08:28 Already got them 08:28 Full disclosure, this is more ATT stuff 08:29 (and if you're wondering the trope name is Boss in Mook Clothing) 08:29 Elder minotaur 08:29 Vorpal jabberwock 08:29 vorpal minotaurs when 08:30 in many games: Shambling horror 08:30 ice queen: the reincarnation 08:31 You mean her enchantress form? 08:31 yep 08:31 vorpal alhoon liches 08:31 if it's a unique monster, it's not really in mook clothing 08:32 "Has an entrance like a boss or mid-boss" 08:32 I don't think that really applies 08:33 It doesn't have to 08:33 Tropes Are Flexible 08:33 aosdict: Mailer demons are a unique mook technically 08:33 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Law) killed the invisible Master Kaen, on T:31997 08:34 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:32021 08:34 No they're not, they're not G_UNIQ 08:34 they only appear in special limited circumstances but that doesn't make them unique 08:34 I said *technically* 08:35 And if I recall managing to kill one extincts it for that game 08:35 you could also argue the water troll on medusa-1 is unique because it's the only one that can appear naturally. but that might be more of a Metal Slime thing 08:36 I agree on that 08:36 actually what WOULD be closest to a Metal Slime in NetHack or its variants 08:36 Make Water Trolls Great Again 08:36 Go to sleep K2 LB 08:36 :B * 08:36 i cant 08:36 i'm awake 08:36 it's work time now isn't it 08:37 si 08:37 Hi Ammy 08:37 aren't there 2 water trolls on medusa-1? 08:37 Hello Umbire. Welcome to #evilhack 08:37 Umbire: boojum? 08:37 oh only now I notice the discussion has moved on already 08:37 ...uh 08:37 isn't the chance of finding one like 1% from any snark 08:37 flayer newts 08:37 Right that's at thing 08:38 a* 08:38 archlichen should definitely be a thing 08:38 But do they give tons of experience 08:38 thats slex 08:38 amateurhour: ur late 08:38 There's a patch for it 08:38 giant grid bug of excellence 08:38 (SLEX indeed includes it along with several other variants) 08:38 It's like one of the oldest patches out there 08:38 I'm aware, I have played slex quite a bit :P 08:38 I think 08:39 Would it work against EvilHack though 08:39 amateurhour there are services available that can get you the help you need 08:39 * Umbire thibks 08:39 thinks* 08:39 bdgnfhgjm,hcgxzs 08:39 I cannae type lAl 08:39 ;A;* 08:39 HELP 08:39 K2 if you're in the market for some evil boss-level non-boss monsters 08:39 !coffee Umbire 08:39 * EvilBot pours Umbire a tumbler of Grey Goose vodka, brewed by the late Pinobot at 48 degrees Fahrenheit. 08:39 lethe elementals would be the nastiest thing I can think of 08:40 That's also a thing already in other variants, right? 08:40 in dnh yeah 08:40 * Umbire is feeling dnethacky 08:40 Yep 08:41 they're water elementals made from river lethe water 08:41 i debated adding those elements of the lethe patch but decided against it 08:41 their engulf attack drains 1d9 int, and anything hitting them gets disenchanted like disenchanter 08:42 Masty 08:42 Nasty* 08:42 i have Ideas™ 08:42 some are already on the etherpad, some are not (yet) 08:42 i'm starting to stray into 'idea creep' 08:43 i need to set a cutoff - no more Things and Stuff for 0.7.0, anything else save for 0.7.x or 0.8 08:43 * Umbire wants a playable kobold race 08:43 already mentally drafting one as we speak 08:43 see thats another thing i almost added 08:43 grunthack has kobold race 08:44 decided not to go there 08:44 i think i am done with playable races 08:44 one more role i want to add 08:44 * Umbire cries 08:44 IT Sysadmin? 08:44 heh 08:45 yeah amateurhour they'd start with a blessed scroll of genocide, on turn one they're always compelled to geno @ 08:45 sounds great! looking forward to seeing it 08:45 on a serious note - Druid 08:45 1-800-D R U I D I A 08:46 not tempted to steal some races/roles from other variants? 08:46 * Umbire starts his EvilHack troping 08:47 i already have 08:47 i think slex is the only variant with druid? and it doesnt really count 08:47 in my hypothetical variant of epic and pwnage I would steal etherealoid from ndnh and pirate from dnh 08:47 well the rule with slex is that it overhears some cool idea and rushes to implement a half-baked version in slex :P 08:47 not even half-baked 08:48 see: etherealoid, anachrononaut, binder :P 08:48 most of the roles she makes are in name only 08:48 i'm really proud of how we integrated infidel role 08:48 for sure, infidel is great 08:48 Tomsod hugs <3 08:48 it's a unique experience 08:49 i think we can make druid role something special too 08:49 WE 08:49 us 08:49 there are some other bits i want to knock out first before i start in on the new role and new side branch quest 08:50 and you all keep finding bugs to fix :P 08:51 New branch? O: 08:51 oh yes 08:51 eeeeee 08:51 and i want to make some improvements to the ice queen's realm too 08:51 add some randomness maybe 08:52 and of course another gehennom revamp 08:52 0.7.0 is gonna be big 08:52 i just need time 08:52 heh 08:52 and help most likely 08:54 I think once you've started making dungeon maps for the branch the rest will be more rapid 08:54 EvilHack: The Unlucky Seventh 08:54 yeah map making is a slog 08:58 phhhbbhht I mentioned alhoons but not their BiMC status directly 08:58 ah well fixing now 08:59 their what now 08:59 weird typo of BMI? 08:59 druid quest: steal the old elf quest 08:59 Boss-in-Mook-Clothing 09:00 mobileuser: Ranger did it first 09:00 * Umbire likes to headcanon Scorpius as a goblin-scorpion hybrid 09:00 ah good point 09:09 was there a hobbit quest in the vanilla past? 09:10 I believe so 09:10 Wiki should have info 09:10 * Umbire is suprised no one mentioned beholders as "boss" mooks 09:11 I don't think it was in vanilla but I could be wrong 09:11 I see no variant name mentioned on the wiki page 09:11 lemme check 1.3d 09:12 oh slashém 09:12 * slash'em 09:12 ah yeah slash'em 09:12 don't think it exists in slash'em anymore though 09:13 Do EvilHack mons read geno scrolls? 09:13 Prob. not, but asking to be sure 09:14 no but that'd be hilarious 09:15 Also alhoons can't be geno'd right? 09:15 yes Beholder is a great danger 09:15 Or no 09:15 wrong* 09:16 fortunately 09:16 alhoon can be geno'd 09:16 Vorpal Beholder 09:16 Aye 09:16 Why can alhoons be genocided but not beholders? 09:17 evil L3 wants to make it so you can't geno liches (and maybe alhoons) till you complete the new side branch 09:17 you making that up? or for real? 09:17 this is the point VaderFLAG says GOOD 09:17 I'm not making that up 09:17 rebatela that's the plan for 0.7 09:17 nice 09:17 i'm fine with that 09:18 you guys all must cart your giant nuts around in a wheelbarrow 09:18 cuz that idea scares me 09:18 Maybe alhoons should be nofear or whatever the flag is that prevents a monster from fleeing or getting scared 09:18 look under Dungeon features/Branch quests: on the etherpad 09:19 Maybe alhoons should just ignore your MR for all attacks 09:19 oilskin head gear for the win 09:20 Ok ok I know, but this actually helps alhoons be LESS annoying. Low DPS classes have a huge problem with them, since they get scared, teleport far away, and immediately heal 09:20 even if you're on the upstairs 09:20 * Umbire notices Cerberus isn't stated to be immune to vorpal jabberwocks 09:24 -!- K2 changed the topic on #evilhack to: EvilHack: a NetHack variant ¤ https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack ¤ version 0.6.0 availble for public play on #hardfought ¤ see https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/EvilHack for gameplay information ¤ Bug tracker and future development ideas - https://www.hardfought.org/etherpad/p/EvilHack 09:25 cerberus has mad skillz 09:26 So is that a "yes they are" or 09:26 si 09:27 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Law) had a staff of matter entrusted to him by Shan Lai Ching, on T:33212 09:27 same gift twice 09:27 [hdf-us] [evil] coplate (Wiz Gno Mal Cha), 1501 points, T:2918, killed by a lesser nightmare 09:27 Shan Lai Ching must really like those staves 09:27 i like the staves! mix it up though lol 09:28 Umbire - https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/blob/master/src/artifact.c#L2276 09:28 that handles using vorpal blade on cerberus 09:28 i cant remember if i did a thing for AD_BHED attacks from monsters 09:28 checking 09:29 ah, fug 09:29 counts vorpalwocks too 09:29 wait, am misreading 09:29 oh right 09:29 that's just the instakill clause 09:29 right 09:29 omg i need to get it together 09:29 lemme check mhitm 09:30 so it also instakills trolls and zombies with no revival 09:30 ? 09:30 it should track cerberus' head count and finally kill him once you've gotten all his heads lol 09:30 the limbs & heads patch 09:31 qt it should but this was easier and seems more fun :P 09:31 that should apply more to ettins 09:31 every time you cut off one of cerberus' heads, two grow back in its place! 09:31 it's hopeless 09:32 cerberus isn't a hydra 09:32 he is now 09:33 B) 09:33 oh no 09:33 cerberus is part snake according to wikipedia 09:33 lol 09:34 In some interpretations, ye 09:34 nothing in there for a vorpal jabberwock beheading cerberus 09:34 need to fix that 09:35 unplayable 09:35 I assume that's a 0.7.0 fix? 09:35 nor anything for the player poly'd into one 09:35 yeah it can wait for 0.7.0 09:35 its not a major bug 09:36 o7 09:36 I'm just happy to have contributed to fixing 09:36 \o/ 09:36 Would wooly mammoths, vampire mages and snow golems qualify for "boss in mook clothing"? 09:37 vampire mages maybe 09:37 not the other two 09:37 They're at the lower end of the difficulty threshold established with what I have so far 09:37 o ok 09:37 woolly mammoths hit hard but they are kinda slow and have zero MR 09:38 my shambling horror is phasing 09:38 hmmm 09:38 Oh right, those too 09:38 could a vorpal horror behead cerberus?? 09:38 shamblers could be a BiMC, depends on the game 09:39 mobileuser yes 09:39 i need to set a condition in AD_BHED 09:39 Can shambling horrors get medusa's petrifying snake attacks? 09:39 no 09:39 The entries for vamp lords and shambling horrors will be kinda short given idk much about either 09:39 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Law) killed Aphrodite, on T:34054 09:39 can probably add more to the horrors though 09:40 vamp mages 09:40 is what I meant, yes 09:40 ...uh oh, no evilhack page for them 09:40 (yet_ 09:40 *) 09:42 i cant remember... isnt there an app or script or something out there that makes it easy to make a nethackwiki monster entry? 09:42 it reads the data from the source files 09:42 Yeah, was used for dnet 09:42 Probably wanna ask Chris, riker or demo 09:42 ok thanks 09:42 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Law), 323750 points, T:34571, killed by a death ray 09:43 I can also just make the pages myself but I'm also doing like tons of simultaneous edits 09:43 oh fuck. 09:43 !lastgame rebatela 09:43 Umbire: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rebatela/evilhack/dumplog/1612463854.evil.html :: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rebatela/evilhack/dumplog/1601668317.evil.html 09:43 hehe 09:43 i got paralyzed on that nymph level 09:43 they stripped me, applied the balrog figurine etc 09:43 Ganked by his backup 09:43 Son of a bitch 09:44 it was a trap on chest 09:44 oof 09:45 truly evil 09:45 lol 09:47 aargh :-( 09:48 F 09:49 lawful giant monk is really cursed rebatela :-( 09:51 * Umbire adds stuff to the etherpad and then goes to cry 09:51 * Umbire also wonders if he shouldn't have a specific color for that business 09:54 Did the figurine balrog spawn with a death wand? 09:54 I like how they didn't steal your boulders 09:57 YANI: Nymphs can pick up and throw boulders. Consider creating giantess nymphs for this purpose. (AND ONLY THIS PURPOSE.) 09:57 hah 09:57 In fact, lemme make it formal 09:58 There 09:58 omg those colors Umbire 09:58 K2, what would you consider "anti-frustration features" that you've added 09:58 my eyes.... the pain! 09:59 * Umbire likes purple 09:59 you might as well take the nymph yani off of there, not gonna happen 09:59 Bawwwwwwwwwww 09:59 i thought that was more of a YASI 09:59 Completely fair, not truly complaining 09:59 This shade less eye-hurty 10:00 ? 10:00 what would you consider "anti-frustration features" that you've added <-- back to this question 10:00 i see no change? 10:00 anti-frustriation features... auto-unlock 10:00 Should be darker and easier on the eyes 10:01 colored altars and branch stairs 10:01 Umbire could i suggest switching back to black text and colored background? 10:01 this just... argh 10:01 sorry 10:01 All good 10:02 That work now? 10:03 better, thank you 10:04 Alright, auto-unlock, no genocide scrolls being read 10:04 hmmmm what else 10:04 * Umbire goes to wiki 10:04 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Gia Mal Law), 4515 points, T:2818, killed by a dwarf king 10:06 force removal, check 10:06 new Gehennom, check 10:07 -!- stenno4 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:07 vaderflag: I'm not sure how the balrog got the death wand. I had three of them before the nymphs robbed me. one on me and two in boh 10:08 no genocide scrolls being read <--- ? 10:08 as in monsters won't read them 10:08 for fairly obvs reasons 10:08 well they never did 10:09 they dont in vanilla 10:09 in fact i think the only variant where monsters will read genocide scrolls is fiqhack 10:09 maybe slex? 10:10 contents of bag getting BUC identified when dropped on altar 10:11 K2: Mostly mentioned that as an exclusion from monster item usage 10:11 ^ anti-frustration feature 10:11 BoH not destroying everything in your bag 10:11 Anti-frustration YANI 10:11 flings most of the contents about 10:12 have the BOH thing under Combinatorial Explosion 10:12 lemme copy and transplant 10:12 brb 10:12 how is a boh explosion a combinatorial explosion (trope) 10:13 isn't that trope for having a very complex game with many possible interactions between things 10:13 which nethack qualifies as, sure, but not boh specifically 10:16 The BoH was just the first thing that came to mind 10:18 There, fixed that to be more sensible 10:18 What Else™ 10:30 um 10:30 ummm 10:31 can dual-wield various artifact weapons together? 10:33