00:01 [04hdf-us] [10fh] NCommander (Pri Elf Mal Cha), 45903 points, T:8928, killed by an ochre jelly 00:01 ARGH 00:01 #!@#$ 00:04 what happened 00:06 -!- Grassy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:06 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 00:06 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 00:11 StatueSurfer, stupidity. I got engulfed, and took more points of damage than I realized, that was completly avoidable 00:11 Ugh 00:11 ouch 00:13 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] Elysium (Bin Elf Mal Non), 24 points, T:198, killed by a jackal 01:12 [04hdf-us] [12slex] DrakeMarshall (Cha Bre Mal Cha), 0 points, T:15, killed by a monster (rainbow ogre) 01:18 apparently this game wants me to open doors 01:18 I have a key, a lock pick, a credit card and a wand of opening 01:18 on dlvl 3 01:19 Thou shalt be the Opener of Doors! 01:20 now all I need is a knock spell 01:21 well, and the Bell of Opening :-) 01:24 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] Kontroller (Val Hum Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at her by some watery tart, on T:4060 01:26 -!- Grassy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 01:26 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 01:28 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] Raisse (Tou Hum Fem Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3002 01:38 StatueSurfer: dragons in FIQHack are much faster than in vanilla 01:38 oh he was playing fiqhack 01:38 and make far more useful mounts (arguably the best mounts in the game) 01:38 i assumed it was vanilla 01:38 StatueSurfer: not a weird assumption, I only knew because I saw the death message 01:38 no black dragons are the best mounts in the game 01:39 "[fh]" 01:39 StatueSurfer: I meant dragons in general, but especially black ones yeah 01:39 or yellow 01:39 i think ki-rin might surpass the others because they can heal and will eventually haste themselves past even the speed of a dragon 01:39 and can just cast spells in general 01:40 and resist conflict 01:40 in fh, only if they generate with those spells 01:40 disintegrating things is tough to top, though 01:40 oh right 01:40 a ki-rin is speed 18 01:40 dragons in fh is speed 20 01:41 conflict resistance and self-healing are (potentially) definitely helpful 01:43 a ki-rin also has no resistances 01:43 dragons at least get trinsics by eating corpses 01:43 okay obviously fiqhack changes to much for me to make an intelligent statement 01:43 *too much 01:44 sorry :P 01:44 was just messing with you 01:44 but yeah 01:44 fh doesn't have that many changes 01:44 but they are enough to sometimes make things completely different 01:45 -!- hpardis has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:45 in my variant i'm working to rebalance the alignment system 01:46 so that it actually matters 01:46 I see 01:47 currently i've made the penalties pretty stiff until i figure out how to edit the penalty for hitting a peaceful 01:47 other things are: can't #offer the Amulet on Astral with negative alignment, and no alignment gain from coaligned monsters 01:47 i'm not entirely sure either of those is balanced 01:48 setmangr 01:48 y 01:48 okay thank you 01:49 now i can maybe lift that penalty for killing peacefuls above -20 01:51 now how about the thing with the Amulet and the no alignment from coaligned stuff 01:53 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] Elysium (Bar Orc Fem Cha) was given Cleaver, on T:3946 01:58 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] Kontroller (Val Hum Fem Law), 14543 points, T:7548, killed by a sergeant, while sleeping 01:58 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] elenmirie (Arc Gno Fem Neu), 8557 points, T:8301, petrified by a chickatrice 01:59 -!- StatueSurfer has left #hardfought 02:20 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] elenmirie (Arc Gno Fem Neu), 491 points, T:1853, killed by a rabid rat 02:38 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:38 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] elenmirie (Arc Gno Fem Neu), 301 points, T:1108, fell into a pit 02:45 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] elenmirie (Arc Gno Fem Neu), 254 points, T:1104, killed by a coyote, while praying 03:02 -!- realinari has joined #hardfought 03:07 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] elenmirie (Arc Gno Fem Neu), 644 points, T:2003, killed by a land mine 03:08 [04hdf-us] [04gh] arnibald (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 552 points, T:1307, killed by a rock piercer 03:10 huhuh 03:10 stepping on landmines, are we? 03:11 I have never seen one outside of the Fort 03:11 and in the Fort, you kinda know to expect them 03:36 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 03:38 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] elenmirie (Arc Gno Fem Neu), 966 points, T:2065, killed by a giant spider 03:48 -!- deadnoob has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:48 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] Kontroller (Val Hum Fem Law), 196 points, T:756, killed by a bat 03:48 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 04:00 !tell K2 pushed a bunch of fixes and made -W ready to go (still needs the dgl logic though) 04:00 Will do, FIQ! 04:06 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 04:07 ais523: would you find mail useful for NH4-mode servers? 04:07 FIQ: yes, assuming it doesn't break things 04:07 I could do some minor tweaks to it to have it work in '-k' NH4-servermode 04:08 (which I assume is how N4O works) 04:08 yes, it uses -k 04:08 ideally I'd bring back the mail daemon, but daniel_t deleted it entirely from the source so that's a little nontrivial nowadays 04:08 although it'd get annoying in a long conversation 04:09 hm you think the player should also be able to mail himself, for the purpose of having a conversion? 04:09 it's currently disallowed 04:09 !rng priest|ranger 04:09 NCommander: priest 04:10 because you seemed to imply it 04:14 FIQ: conversion? do you mean conversation? 04:14 err yes 04:14 the only real reason to disallow that is to avoid using too many keybindings 04:15 currently, moveonly in watchmode aliases to mail 04:15 if it's rebindable you could just make it nonbound by default, or put it on the !/^C menu, or something 04:15 but there is also a dedicated, allbeit unmapped, 'mail' command 04:15 but it is an UI command 04:15 that seems reasonable 04:15 so it is completely inaccessible outside watching 04:16 because extended UI commands doesn't work for whatever reason 04:16 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] Kontroller (Val Hum Fem Law), 809 points, T:2334, killed by a pony, while frozen by a monster's gaze 04:17 ais523: also, there is something I don't understand 04:17 somehow, the watcher is also seeing the mail 04:17 despite mail being disallowed in watchmode 04:17 is player plines somehow sent to the watcher too? 04:18 FIQ: they shouldn't be 04:18 hm 04:18 then what is this dark magic 04:18 so what is happening is 04:19 the watcher sees the user moving as normal 04:19 but doesn't see a message 04:19 the player sees a mail 04:19 with force-More 04:19 once the --More-- is dismissed 04:19 the watcher also sees the mail 04:19 I don't understand 04:20 actually it's weirder than that 04:20 this is very weird 04:20 there is some delay 04:20 it isn't related to the --More-- 04:20 but if the player hasn't dismissed the --More-- 04:20 before the watcher sees the message 04:21 the act of dismissing the --More-- will desync the watcher 04:21 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: sorry for my connection] 04:21 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 04:21 ‎<‎FIQ‎>‎ but if the player hasn't dismissed the --More-- ← the last message that got through 04:21 http://home.fiq.se/desync.png 04:21 but if the player hasn't dismissed the --More-- 04:21 before the watcher sees the message 04:21 the act of dismissing the --More-- will desync the watcher 04:22 (then I posted the image link) 04:22 found diff, expected command 04:23 that's particularly weird because it /hasn't/ reached an EOF at that point (it can't have done, or else the desync message would be different) 04:23 so how can the original player's actions, which should only append to the save file, affect it? 04:23 that would imply that the watcher is writing to the original player's save but they aren't supposed to do that under any circumstances 04:23 the watcher has opened the save as read-only 04:24 perhaps you could have a look at how this works in multiprocess and compare? 04:24 so it shouldn't even be able to even if it tried 04:24 FIQ: right 04:24 something's clearly gone very wrong internally but it's not clear what or how 04:24 multiprocess? 04:24 oh you mean opening with FM_PLAY on both ends? 04:24 as in 04:24 2 processes playing 04:25 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] Kontroller (Val Hum Fem Law), 411 points, T:1058, poisoned by a rabid rat 04:25 yes, two processes with FM_PLAY 04:26 don't worry about messages randomly turning grey, that's been a problem in multiprocess forever and it's very hard to fix 04:26 hmm 04:26 well the only thing that happened was that the --More-- broke down 04:26 and both processes got all the mails all at once 04:26 (I sent 10) 04:27 actually that isn't true 04:27 well it is 04:27 but the message lines is different 04:28 the player that was walking, prompting the mail 04:28 presumably they got approximately half the mail each? 04:28 did they see each other's mail? 04:28 no they both got all mails 04:28 but the message line is a bit odd 04:28 unsure if it is due to my T:xx prevmsg being broken 04:29 or something else 04:29 never seen this before though 04:29 it looks like this: 04:29 Buried deep in the core of your consciousness is a nagging 04:29 fixationonahazymemory of something fiqwatch may once have said: "test8" 04:29 multiprocess play is problematic because the processes are meant to stay live with each other, so the players can dismiss each others' mores 04:29 but that missing spaces is bizarre 04:29 presumably you're going to change the message before release anyway :-) 04:29 ("fiqwatch" is what I set NH4WATCHER to) 04:30 ais523: this is 4k mail.c 04:30 I didn't change it 04:30 I have considered removing the message fluff though 04:30 this reminds me of that time that an old version of the message rendering code somehow managed to draw a --More-- /vertically/ 04:30 so it went down the side of the message area 04:30 (both FIQHack and 4k has has mail support since before -- the new thing here is the NH4 watchmode part, and mail sending) 04:37 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: reconnecting] 04:38 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 04:40 -!- Haudegen has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] Kontroller (Val Hum Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at her by some watery tart, on T:2699 04:51 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] elenmirie (Arc Gno Fem Neu), 866 points, T:1857, killed by a rothe 04:53 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 04:53 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 05:23 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] Kontroller (Val Hum Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:6061 06:11 -!- Grasshopper_ has joined #hardfought 06:11 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:17 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: my connection is too bad for the Internet to be usable right now] 06:28 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] Kontroller (Val Hum Fem Law) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:10082 06:59 -!- Grassy is now known as Grasshopper 07:17 FIQ, possible bug? Stormbringer is surprisingly tame. It's not attacking peacefuls. It's not on the changelog on the wiki 07:34 [04hdf-us] [07nd] Grasshopper (Bar Hum Mal Neu) performed his first genocide (class m), on T:54285 07:34 [04hdf-us] [114k] Smyth (Ssach) (Hea Gno Fem Neu), 3141 points, T:1591, killed by a jitterbug 07:35 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 07:41 [04hdf-us] [114k] Joes (Ssach) (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 4020 points, T:1138, killed by a force bolt 07:44 FIQ, I just found a long srowd named Frost Brand on dlvl1. is it legit? 07:45 yes 07:45 oh sorry, it's fiqhack, I don't know about that 07:45 in vanilla it woudl be anyway 07:45 well it's certainly not cursed.. 07:46 and if it freezes things you hit with it, you know it's the real thing 07:47 okay, it feels satisfying. watch me ef this run up.. 07:48 should I #twoweapon right away with the strating sword? 07:48 *starting 07:48 zxkuqyb: yes it is legit 07:48 no, first train it up as high as it will go (probably at least skilled if it's your starting sword) 07:49 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/FIQHack 07:49 this article mentions everything different from nethack4 07:49 and nethack4 can be assumed to play like vanilla 07:49 3.4.3 07:49 thanks for rigging it up for me, FIQ 07:50 [04hdf-us] [114k] Christ (Ssach) (Rog Elf Mal Cha), 2682 points, T:1309, killed by a jackal, while fainted from lack of food 08:00 FIQ 08:00 K2: Message from FIQ at 2017-12-18 07:00 EST: pushed a bunch of fixes and made -W ready to go (still needs the dgl logic though) 08:00 FIQhack updated (us and eu) 08:00 ok 08:01 yay for getting a priest to the quest 08:02 \o/ 08:03 K2: I made this thing: http://home.fiq.se/watchmode.png 08:03 need Tangles to implement the dgamelaunch end though :P 08:06 that is awesome 08:06 i was reading the backlog in the dev channel 08:06 looking like dgl will need some modification to get this all to play nice? 08:06 as in code modification? or just the right commands to pass on to dgl? 08:07 K2: well currently, dgl watchmode will just playback the ttyrec 08:07 right 08:07 basically, what needs to be done is to invoke fiqhack, as if you wanted to play fiqhack like normal 08:07 except with some additional parameters 08:08 -W /path/to/player to choose to watch the given player 08:08 and NH4WATCHER needs to be set so the game knows who is watching -- this is for mail (lack of NH4WATCHER will still work, but 'm' will give an error about needing to be logged in) 08:10 ok 08:18 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] Demo2 (Sam Clk Fem Law) was given their Quest, on T:19784 08:26 FIQ, I'm surprised you can be an emacs user and a nethack player 08:26 because the config editor is in vi 08:27 and repeat commands like 5h are vi-style 08:30 most people seem to favor nano as the config editor 08:31 -!- Haudegen has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:40 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] Kontroller (Val Hum Fem Law), 37782 points, T:15452, killed by an invisible master lich 08:40 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has joined #hardfought 08:45 https://i.imgur.com/uuKOOXi.png dang.. 08:45 bug_sniper: but I learned emacs before I learned vikeys 08:45 on nethack 08:46 and it's not like there is any alternative 08:46 while playing nethack 08:46 bug_sniper: I am thankful for learning vikeys in nethack though 08:46 much nicer than numberpad 08:46 smoother multi-commands 08:47 and shift+direction is nice 08:51 floating eyes a way more dangerous in FIQHack, huh.. 08:51 are* 08:52 FIQ: I am torn on whether to remove enchanted weapons' to-hit bonus or not. The main reason being it double-dips in to-hit and damage. What do you think? 08:56 I am not comfortable answering since it boils down to how you want to-hit balance to be 09:00 yeah, it is 09:00 bug_sniper: as for the config editor 09:01 I despise virus 09:01 and only use it if absolutely neccessary 09:11 [04hdf-us] [12slex] Ssach (Bul Clk Mal Neu), 63 points, T:204, killed by a monster (kobold mummy) 09:12 -!- raisse has quit [Quit: Raisse suddenly disappears!] 09:13 how many slex ascensions are there? 09:17 [04hdf-us] [14sp] Ssach (Arc Hum Mal Neu), 135 points, T:333, killed by a jackal 09:17 from people other than amy: zero 09:17 from amy: around five I think 09:21 FIQ: I'm perhaps crazily still sticking to the to-hit formula being based on a gaussian distribution 09:25 hmmm 09:27 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 09:27 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 09:47 -!- Guest16860 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:55 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] Demo2 (Sam Clk Fem Law) killed Ashikaga Takauji, on T:20229 09:56 [Demo] congrats on your dnethack asc on ascrun 09:56 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:59 <[Demo]> thanks! 09:59 <[Demo]> @d?chaos 09:59 Chaos (07,01&) | Lvl: 16 | Diff: 20 | Spd: 9 | Res: fire cold sleep disintegrate shock poison acid petrification | Confers: nothing | MR: 99 | Generates: unique | AC: -3 | Attacks: 4d4 weapon physical, 4d4 weapon physical, 4d4 claw steals-quest-artifact, 4d4 claw steals-quest-artifact | Alignment: -15 | Flags: seeinvis, poisonous, nopoly, covetous, infravisible 10:00 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] elenmirie (Arc Gno Fem Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3373 10:00 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] elenmirie (Arc Gno Fem Neu), 1328 points, T:3408, killed by a killer bee 10:13 [04hdf-us] [07nd] Grasshopper (Bar Hum Mal Neu) killed the invisible Juiblex, on T:55339 10:21 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:21 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 10:25 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] Demo2 (Sam Clk Fem Law) was given the Kiku-ichimonji, on T:21768 10:25 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:35 -!- bouquet has joined #hardfought 10:38 -!- bouquet has quit [Client Quit] 10:45 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] Demo2 (Sam Clk Fem Law) became the Nasu no Demo2!, on T:22511 10:46 <[Demo]> the 2 is funny 10:46 <[Demo]> demo2-san 10:59 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] Demo2 (Sam Clk Fem Law) killed Medusa, on T:22974 10:59 <[Demo]> what 11:00 <[Demo]> i dont even know how she died 11:00 <[Demo]> must have been an energy vortex? 11:02 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 11:15 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought 11:21 !whereis demo 11:21 rikersan: Message from aosdict at 2017-12-16 11:18 EST: Actually, I could probably pursue a dual approach with YANIs, and just streamline whatever source files I create for them into the wiki table as well. 11:21 rikersan: [04hdf-us] demo is not currently playing on this server. 11:21 !whois 11:21 !who 11:21 rikersan: [04hdf-us] Zxkuqyb [10fh] Grasshopper [07nd] Demo2 [13dnh] 11:21 rikersan: [12hdf-eu] No current players 11:24 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] Demo2 (Sam Clk Fem Law) killed the Platinum Dragon, on T:23611 11:27 !role dnh 11:27 rikersan: priest 11:27 !role dnh 11:27 rikersan: tourist 11:27 !rold dnh 11:27 !role dnh 11:27 rikersan: troubadour 11:28 !rng priest | tou | bard 11:28 rikersan: bard 11:28 [04hdf-us] [114k] Jeff (Ssach) (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 3339 points, T:1623, killed by an imp 11:29 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] rikersan (Pri Inc Mal Neu), 0 points, T:8, killed by a water moccasin 11:29 I should stop fountain dipping 11:35 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] rikersan (Pri Inc Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:956 11:35 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] rikersan (Pri Inc Mal Neu), 1052 points, T:988, killed by Mr. Izchak, the shopkeeper 11:35 :( didn't mean to hit the door with force bolt 11:42 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] Demo2 (Sam Clk Fem Law) destroyed the Arsenal, on T:24054 11:44 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] Demo2 (Sam Clk Fem Law) killed Axus, on T:24156 11:54 -!- realinari has quit [Quit: realinari] 11:58 [04hdf-us] [114k] Joes (Ssach) (Kni Hum Mal Law), 10131 points, T:3445, killed by a gold golem 12:01 https://i.imgur.com/y0mEuhB.png and that's why NetHack doesn't have a slot for pants... 12:02 zxkuqyb: did you know you can sit on a cockatrice corpse and not get stoned? 12:03 brb, getting a cockatrice mount 12:04 seriously tho, can you tame and ride a cockatrice? 12:05 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 12:05 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 12:06 don't think so, it's too small 12:06 probably no since it is tiny 12:07 requesting a tiny race that start with a pet cockatrice and a saddle 12:09 [04hdf-us] [10fh] Saraswati (Oneiron) (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 38049 points, T:3710, quit 12:09 I think cockatrices are actually just MZ_SMALL. 12:10 Very few things are actually MZ_TINY. 12:10 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:11 Oh, chickatrices are tiny though. 12:13 <[Demo]> you can play as a trice in slex 12:16 ooh, slex has curses menus now 12:21 [04hdf-us] [12slex] Zxkuqyb (Dea Coc Fem Cha) averted death, on T:8 12:21 cool first room filled with traps, game 12:30 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] Demo2 (Sam Clk Fem Law) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:25236 12:31 https://i.imgur.com/UQxUmdN.png 12:32 a winnable run *sigh* 12:33 lol 12:33 FIQ: Note on zxkuqyb 12:33 ugh 12:34 FIQ: Note on zxkuqyb's screenshot... 12:34 zxkuqyb: what's it say? can't view imgur atm 12:34 The cursed wand of death is wrapped but there's a couple of chars missing. 12:35 but there are no menuglyphs, so the issue is not related to that, as we initially thought. 12:35 it's a full screencap of me descending to dlvl2 in slex 12:35 Tangles: ? 12:35 oh 12:35 PuTTY froze for like a 27 seconds and then DYWYPI 12:36 Tangles: I fixed that bug already 12:36 but it's in the grunthack master branch 12:36 heh ok 12:36 K2 never updated it 12:36 and I never pushed it to other variants 12:36 Tangles: the wrapping bug isn't related to sidebar though, that's another thing entirely 12:37 Yeah I'll propagate it at some point. Or just merge the libuncursed changes when they are ready. 12:37 the sidebar thing isn't even a bug 12:37 just not something I cared about until you told me you wanted it fixed 12:37 i pull from the grunthack-dgl branch 12:37 trivial fix 12:37 anyway, the actual bug 12:37 is in menus 12:37 i dont mess with merges as i have a habit of breaking things 12:37 menus will wrap oddly with menuglyphs 12:37 figured Tangles would merge it when you guys felt it was ready 12:38 oh the uncursed thing is seperate 12:38 and unfinished (kind of? I mean, it is working already as-is, better than the current stuff, but there's still work I want to do for it to make it ready for 3.6.x) 12:39 OK... so I'll merge the gh master branch later today, and the uncursed branch later when you are happy with it. 12:41 rikersan: Different question. When Izchak killed you earlier, do you know if that was a bones level? 12:41 actually, I can look at the dumplog. 12:42 !lastgame rikersan 12:42 Tangles: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rikersan/dnethack/dumplog/1513625371.dnh.txt 12:42 Tangles is planning on dumplog reading for the purpose of knowing content for his own game 12:43 Not exactly. 12:44 I just noticed in the logs of my bones syncing script that a minetown bones file was used up, and another was created at about the same time. 12:45 you can't tell from the dumplog if it was bones. 12:45 Chris_ANG: FR: dungeon overview in dumplog. 12:45 :) 12:49 anyhow... good news is the script works. It deletes the old bones first, then copies the new one in its place. This only works because of a change I made last night to streamline the processing a little, without even considering this case. 12:49 In other words.... it works by accident. 12:50 hrm... I should say it _almost_ works. More testing required. 12:53 :) 12:53 i would pray for things to just work by accident :P 12:59 So according to the logs it worked... 12:59 Consumed on remote: ./dnethack-3.15.1/bonM0.T.1.gz (1ab56e11a31ed60e02455ec7c44b7669) 13:00 removed './dnethack-3.15.1/bonM0.T.1.gz' 13:00 Consumed on remote: ./dnethack-3.15.1/bonD0.4.1.gz (a1720596bd380b08711a727e59fb7853) 13:00 removed './dnethack-3.15.1/bonD0.4.1.gz' 13:00 New: ./dnethack-3.15.1/bonM0.T.1.gz (631573837da763018a1428bf5c21de28) 13:00 but it did not create the new file. 13:00 because of this line: 13:01 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] Kontroller (Val Hum Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at her by some watery tart, on T:1956 13:01 [ -d $DN ] || debug "No directory $DN - ignored." && continue 13:01 which obviously needs to be: 13:01 [ -d $DN ] || ( debug "No directory $DN - ignored." && continue ) 13:04 The file copy follows this line, but the continue was always bypassing it. 13:06 -!- StatueSurfer has joined #hardfought 13:06 . 13:06 -!- StatueSurfer has quit [Client Quit] 13:07 thank you cisco support for hanging up on me twice 13:07 lol 13:09 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] Kontroller (Val Hum Fem Law), 1904 points, T:2835, killed by a wolf 13:09 never made it to a real person 13:09 I have two WAP's that need to be replaced 13:10 this channel is now hardfought-development 13:10 yeah sorry for the offtopic. 13:11 its all good 13:11 never been a topic-nazi 13:12 K2: and yes vendor support is the worst. Though one of our vendors is taking a bunch of us out for steak and beers today at lunch time... so it's not all bad :) 13:13 \o/ 13:13 we're currently bidding on 6 different ERP systems 13:13 i've had free lunch about 4 times now in the last month 13:13 Anyway, gotta go. Back in a little while. 13:13 cya 13:16 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] DrakeMarshall (Bin Clk Mal Non) averted death, on T:35887 13:16 !whereis drakemarshall 13:16 rikersan: [04hdf-us] DrakeMarshall [13dnh]: (Bin Clk Mal Non) T:34811 Sokoban level: 6 13:19 <[Demo]> ha get ciscod 13:19 <[Demo]> pay the price and dont even get the support 13:19 <[Demo]> classic move right there 13:21 [04hdf-us] [04gh] arnibald (Pri Hum Mal Neu) had mace bestowed upon him by Ishtar, on T:4279 13:29 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] Demo2 (Sam Clk Fem Law) wished for "Blessed +2 fixed quicksilver", on T:26991 13:34 -!- bouquet has joined #hardfought 13:36 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] Kontroller (Val Hum Fem Law), 2954 points, T:3607, killed by a fire ant 13:38 [04hdf-us] [04gh] k2 (Arc Gno Fem Neu), 782 points, T:3779, killed by a kobold zombie, while fainted 13:38 !lastgame 13:38 K2: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/gh/dumplog/1513632154.gh.txt 13:41 how'd you get teh silver splint mail? 13:42 grunthack material 13:43 -!- zxkuqyb has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:45 -!- zxkuqyb has joined #hardfought 13:51 -!- rikersan has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:51 what if you were wearing silver splint mail and got bitten by a werefoo 13:52 would you instantly suffer silver damage all over your body and die? 13:55 -!- elenmirie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 13:56 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 14:04 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 14:04 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 14:19 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought 14:19 -!- rikersan has quit [Client Quit] 14:28 *sigh* 14:29 how do I destroy a sink? asking for a friend 14:29 dig it, twice 14:29 but why do you want to...? 14:29 dig or drink 14:29 possibly to retrieve rings in certain variants 14:29 3.6.1 or fh 14:30 yep, dropped all my rings into fh sink 14:33 also, digging a sink once makes a fountain. good to know 14:41 yani lists surprisingly cluttered with garbage today, because I foolishly enabled [Yy][Aa][A-Za-z][A-Za-z] 14:43 bad move 14:44 You can retrieve rings in 361 and FH? 14:44 Indeed. 14:44 ... that would drastically change my early game strat 14:46 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:47 FIQ, not sure if you saw my earlier comment, if Stormbringers lack of bloodthristness was intentional, I can't seem to find where artifacts are defined in the source nor have had time to look for it 14:47 artilist.h 14:50 once i have gotten what i want from a sink, i turn it into a fountain 14:53 hothraxxa, I usually drop a few spare polymorph rings down them and see if I get a throne 14:54 i normally don't have those 14:55 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 14:55 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 14:57 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] DrakeMarshall (Bin Clk Mal Non) consulted the oracle for the first time, on T:36403 14:57 basically, if i find an early sink i don't kick it, i come back when i know i can deal with the pudding 14:58 this means there asre sinks around that i've gotten stuff from and ones i haven't. making a fountain deals with that 14:58 of course so would a ring of polymorph 14:59 by 'that' i mean the fact that i forget which sink i've exploited 14:59 annotate? 14:59 if i remember i do that, yes 15:00 # (=) is i got my ring 15:00 [04hdf-us] [07nd] ShivanHunter (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 33 points, T:171, killed by a fox 15:03 FIQ: YANI: weapons of reflection only work when you are able to wield the weapon actively, i.e. not incapacitated in some way. 15:03 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought 15:03 you really want to make the longbow of diana useless huh 15:04 [04hdf-us] [10fh] Zxkuqyb (Val Dwa Fem Law), 67244 points, T:12141, killed by Lord Surtur 15:04 actually I was thinking about it as an object property 15:04 zxkuqyb: rip 15:04 how did he kill yo 15:04 aosdict: it is 15:04 but not only 15:04 *you 15:04 welp, apparently Def 20 is not the same as AC -20 15:05 or you have really buffed the dude 15:05 it is not 15:05 FIQ: I was inspired by weapons of reflection, I was not thinking about the Longbow. Though I don't really see how that makes it useless. 15:05 Def starts at 0 and goes up 15:05 also wand of slowing helped 15:05 AC starts at *10* and goes down 15:05 oh yeah that would do it 15:05 -!- hpardis has joined #hardfought 15:05 def 20 is ac -10 15:06 will keep that in mind next time 15:06 -!- rikersan has quit [Client Quit] 15:07 mostly I just panicked when saw that my hp was going down (very unusual) 15:07 that is what hp tends to do 15:07 but yeah 15:07 being slow is bad 15:07 really bad 15:07 giants were doing 1 or 2 per hit 15:08 yeah, I've noticed slow is brutal in fh 15:08 it's like being stressed 15:08 at normal speed 15:08 speedwise 15:08 scary 15:09 but probably looks funny af 15:09 dying in slo mo 15:10 YANI: Remove the Fake Wizard's Towers from the game (as special levels, at least). You can now just walk into the bottom floor of the Wizard's Tower. 15:10 trying to slooooowly turn around and run away while a kobold just keeps kick you in the balls again and again at the regular speed 15:10 kicking* 15:11 K2: why was zxkuqyb's dumplog never created? 15:11 finally done w/ meetings 15:11 ugh 15:12 [04hdf-us] [10fh] dumptest (FIQ) (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 2461 points, T:22, escaped 15:13 !lastgame 15:13 FIQ: (sorry, no dump exists for fh:FIQ) 15:13 dang 15:15 i dunno FIQ, you tell me 15:15 did you break dumplogs with your last update? 15:15 [04hdf-us] [114k] FIQ (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 0 points, T:7, killed by a falling object 15:15 !lastgame 15:15 FIQ: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/F/FIQ/nhfourk/dumps/2017-12-18%2023%3A15%3A22%2C%20FIQ-Wiz-Gno-Mal-Neu%2C%20died.txt 15:15 K2: dumplogs work fine when testing here 15:15 K2: try updating 15:16 maybe there's something wrong with the one on server 15:16 that I later fixed 15:16 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:16 last update i did was this morning my time 15:16 there was some unpushed commits 15:16 I pushed them now 15:16 see if that fixes it 15:16 ok wait one 15:17 -!- StatueSurfer has joined #hardfought 15:17 FIQhack updated (us and eu) 15:18 [04hdf-us] [10fh] More Tests Conducted (FIQ) (Wiz Gno Mal Neu), 0 points, T:3, killed by a falling object 15:18 !lastgame 15:18 FIQ: (sorry, no dump exists for fh:FIQ) 15:18 :( 15:18 i noticed from this morning the GNUmakefile was changed 15:19 i edited it of course for the server, wonder if something affecting dumps made its way in 15:21 yup i see it 15:21 gdammit FIQ lol 15:22 CPPFLAGS += -DPUBLIC_SERVER 15:22 CPPFLAGS += -DDUMPDIR=\"/dumplog\" 15:22 were omitted 15:22 so I am not to blame 15:22 ok 15:22 :) 15:23 oh yeah 15:23 they ended up in the configuration root 15:23 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/F/FIQ/fiqhack/ 15:23 here is a list of affected games (look at the ones today): https://scoreboard.xd.cm/recent.fh.html 15:23 move them all to dumplog 15:23 i'll move them 15:23 to fix it 15:23 cool 15:23 [04hdf-us] [07nd] ShivanHunter (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 2277 points, T:2736, killed by a watchman 15:24 why would you leave those two lines out of your GNUmakefile 15:24 well public server i can see 15:24 but the dump? 15:24 there is a default DUMPDIR 15:24 no idea why it didn't work on server 15:24 but yeah 15:24 I didn't remove those btw 15:24 [04hdf-us] [10fh] UncleFetus (Wiz Hum Mal Neu), 20848 points, T:2049, drained by a gnomish wizard's spell 15:24 I just added mail.o to nethack/ 15:25 was that you 15:25 !lastgame 15:25 FIQ: (sorry, no dump exists for fh:UncleFetus) 15:25 guess not 15:27 FIQhack updated (us and eu) 15:27 [04hdf-us] [10fh] K2 (k2) (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 0 points, T:219, killed by a falling object 15:27 !lastgame 15:27 K2: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/fiqhack/dumplog/2017-12-18%2023%3A27%3A39%2C%20K2-Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu%2C%20died.txt 15:28 StatueSurfer: FYI fiqhack plays best with a terminal bigger than 80x24 (you get stuff like sidebar, etc, that way) 15:28 you can play as you wish though, of course 15:28 just figured I'd let you know 15:28 okay 15:28 K2: cool, it works 15:28 of course there's a sink on DL1 when i'm not playing a tourist 15:28 heh 15:34 what the... 15:34 a shark just appeared in my game 15:34 on DL2 15:34 on land 15:34 polymorph 15:34 clearly 15:34 [04hdf-us] [10fh] Rambunctious Playtester (StatueSurfer) (Cav Dwa Fem Law), 19290 points, T:341, killed by a shark 15:34 ouch lol 15:34 how's that for a YAAD 15:35 i was too stunned just by seeing to shark to properly react to the situation 15:35 !lastgame 15:35 K2: (sorry, no dump exists for fh:StatueSurfer) 15:35 hmmm 15:35 oh i see 15:35 older game 15:37 !lastgame 15:37 K2: (sorry, no dump exists for fh:StatueSurfer) 15:37 interesting. I moved his dumplog to the right folder 15:38 dumplog? 15:38 not dumps 15:38 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/N/NCommander/fiqhack/dumplog/2017-12-18%2008%3A01%3A03%2C%20NCommander-Pri-Elf-Mal-Cha%2C%20died.txt 15:38 interesting dump map 15:38 its always been dumplog 15:38 heh he died inside a jelly 15:39 ok food brb 15:39 that might be why the map looks that way 15:39 looks so lonely.. 15:39 because he was engulfed 15:39 Nah, I just like to pretend the dungeon exists 15:39 that or he's in the dogley dimension 15:39 poor NCommander :( dying all alone 15:39 don't worry he had an ochre jelly for company 15:40 I called him Wilbert 15:40 !lastgame 15:40 FIQ: (sorry, no dump exists for fh:StatueSurfer) 15:40 amazingly 15:40 there is still no dump for my game 15:40 !lastgame AmyBSOD 15:40 NCommander: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/A/AmyBSOD/fiqhack/dumplog/2017-12-08%2011%3A13%3A05%2C%20Erotic%20Thai%20Bitch-Sam-Hum-Fem-Law%2C%20died.txt 15:40 ... it's not a SLEX game? 15:40 !lastgame StatueSurfer 15:40 StatueSurfer: (sorry, no dump exists for fh:StatueSurfer) 15:41 nice character name 15:41 !lastgame Elbereth 15:41 NCommander: No last game for Elbereth 15:41 <[Demo]> damn i might be in the kind of spot where im wishing for geno scroll 15:41 !lastgame StatueSurfer 15:41 FIQ: (sorry, no dump exists for fh:StatueSurfer) 15:41 <[Demo]> thats not a good thing to do 15:42 no idea why Beholder isn't seeing it 15:42 [Demo], beats wishing for two blessed scrolls of remove curse 15:42 the scoreboard does 15:42 oh well 15:42 -!- bouquet has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:42 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/S/StatueSurfer/fiqhack/dumplog/2017-12-18%2023%3A34%3A37%2C%20Rambunctious%20Playtester-Cav-Dwa-Fem-Law%2C%20died.txt 15:42 [Demo], (I did that to save an ascension run at the zeroth hour) 15:42 !tell ais523 thank you for adding YANI tags to discussions so I don't miss them! Much appreciated :) 15:42 Will do, aosdict! 15:42 <[Demo]> im about to roll up on r'yleh and i dont play mind flayer games 15:42 <[Demo]> was able to take mmf out with a throne geno 15:42 NCommander: more surprisingly, it's a fiqhack game 15:43 amy doesn't really seem to like fiqhack a whole lot 15:43 FIQ, to be fair, you're not trying to vaporize a player on Dl:1 15:44 NCommander: are you sure? https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/S/StatueSurfer/fiqhack/dumplog/2017-12-18%2023%3A34%3A37%2C%20Rambunctious%20Playtester-Cav-Dwa-Fem-Law%2C%20died.txt 15:44 <[Demo]> shit i think im gonna have to do it 15:44 no you have to wait until DL2 15:44 :P 15:44 i got killed by a shark 15:44 ON LAND 15:44 hooray for polymorph 15:44 Did it have laser beams on it's head? 15:44 it may as well have 15:45 * NCommander has been tempted to actually break down and really see if I can figure out how to ascend SLEX but its a stupidly daunting task 15:45 Watching Visual Studio Code shit itself working on references was exciting 15:46 hey can i get some feedback on some adjustments i made to the alignment system for my variant? 15:46 NCommander: I don't want jonadab to stop being able to argue that slex is unascendable by anyone who isn't Amy. 15:46 i made the penalties for attacking and killing peacefuls a lot tougher 15:46 * aosdict gets keyboard ready to write down StatueSurfer's changes 15:46 aosdict: There's a backup argument to the effect that it's not streakable. 15:46 i made attacking a peaceful a -10 penalty 15:47 StatueSurfer: So if you kill a peaceful, you have to kill 2-3 crossaligned hostiles to get back up to max alignment? 15:47 StatueSurfer, that won't combo well with stormbringer 15:47 StatueSurfer: that seems scaled okay for the late game but very harsh in the early game 15:48 <[Demo]> fuck it dont judge ud do it too if u were me 15:48 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] Demo2 (Sam Clk Fem Law) wished for "2 blessed scrolls of genocide", on T:28398 15:48 as with so many things, nethack's alignment record system works best in the ten first levels of the game, and not well after that. 15:48 lesson for this variant: don't attack a peaceful 15:50 if you thought that what too much, then in combination with this it's really harsh: you can't gain alignment for killing a coaligned monster 15:50 ever 15:50 doesn't vanilla already do that 15:50 you only gain alignment for killing crossaligned 15:50 i think you gain alignment if they were generated hostile 15:51 yeah if it was generated hostile you gained alignment 15:51 not as much as crossaligned 15:51 StatueSurfer: I think jonadab is arguing that these adjustments don't go far enough 15:51 * NCommander notes he always thinks "you were devotely aligned" even though its not the max 15:51 because any alignment penalty is fairly easily recovered 15:52 aosdict: meh 15:52 people should *try* 15:52 to strengthen the claim 15:53 like how much further can i go 15:53 you instantly die if you attack a peaceful?? 15:53 StatueSurfer: in FIQHack, you can displace peacefuls 15:53 StatueSurfer: If you haven't taken a good hard look at just how _MANY_ alignment points the player gets for killing cross-aligned hostile monsters, you should. Hint: it makes a metric tonne look tiny. 15:54 StatueSurfer: most alignment system adjustments focus on stopping you from gaining boatloads of alignment points with crossaligned kills, not increasing the penalties. 15:54 Any alignment record rebalance that doesn't change that, is going to be effectively irrelevant.~ 15:54 looks like somewhere between 5 and the absolute value of teh monsters alignment 15:54 FOr every single monster. 15:54 Now think about how many cross-aligned hostile monsters you kill in NetHack. 15:55 If you aren't playing pacifist, you're just always at or very close to maximum. 15:55 aosdict: "most" 15:56 only 4k dose this I think 15:56 4k is the only one I know about 15:56 hence, most :P 15:56 As a knight, I've cleared out three large leprechaun halls while exploring one dungeon level, and checked with a stethoscope I'd picked up: I was still pious. 15:57 was this like after you'd murdered someone 15:57 oh right 15:57 knights can't attack sleeping opponents 15:57 jonadab: what variant lets you have several l halls on one level? 15:58 StatueSurfer: Right, I got "caitiff" for every single leprechaun. It mattered not. 15:58 aosdict: 3.4.3-nao 15:58 I... did not think that was possible. 15:58 It is possible. 15:58 so drop the alignment gain to 1? 15:58 Several shops on one level is also possible in theory, but less likely because shops are excluded if there's a second entrance/exit. 15:59 StatueSurfer: That's Fourk Barbarian. 15:59 It's effectively the same, because the number of monsters is so large. 15:59 -!- Haudegen has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00 i mean they do have to be cross-aligned so i think this puts neutrals a slight disadvantage 16:00 (I felt this was ok for Barbarian, because I intend for that to be the easy newbie role.) 16:00 * NCommander wants to play nethack but is tired :( 16:00 playing nethack while tired is :( 16:00 NCommander: Play Dwarf Fortress. It's impossible to screw up even if you're slap happy. 16:00 Fortress mode, I mean. 16:00 there 16:00 jonadab 16:00 don't lie to the kids 16:00 jonadab, you'd be surprised at how much epic fail I can managed in DF 16:01 reverted my 2nd alignment rebalance back to my 1st 16:01 the 1st worked better IMO 16:01 * NCommander once brought a fortresss of 150 dwarfs down to six in two ingame months :) 16:01 isn't the entire point of dwarf fortress that you will eventually screw up no matter what 16:01 Personal best 16:01 NCommander: And then you had 150 again after the next migration wave? 16:01 jonadab, I might have, but I magmaed them due to king (this was a 23a game) 16:02 and then two years without migrants before I too deeped it in a community game 16:02 aosdict: I haven't figured out how. Even forgotten beasts don't seem to do much, really. They kill one or two dwarves, life goes on. 16:02 jonadab, go to the circus 16:02 i'm pretty sure you're the greatest DF player in history jonadab 16:02 StatueSurfer: Eh, no. 16:02 by a wide margin 16:02 StatueSurfer: Have you read GlazedCoast? 16:02 * NCommander vaguely remembers reading it 16:02 is he one of the guys who colonized Hell 16:02 If you think DF is hard, you must read GlazedCoast. 16:03 He colonized an evil glacier. 16:03 Deathgate was the first community fort that managed to colonize the clowncar 16:03 ANd deliberately did DUMB stuff. 16:03 And could not lose. 16:03 glaciers used to be hard :/ 16:03 Pre-caverns 16:03 Dwarf Fortress is one of the very few games I actually have found that I dislike the newer versions 16:04 I've heard a number of people say that DCSS gets worse over time. 16:04 DCSS? 16:04 I personally have only played one version of it, so I don't really know. 16:04 dungeon crawl stone soup 16:04 Actually, I take that back 16:04 i.e., the _other_ popular major roguelike, besides NetHack and Angband. 16:04 DF A mode gets more interesting, fortress mode gets buggier and I find less engaging 16:05 but I never managed to get into A mode super heavily 16:05 hmm.. should I at least read what's new in DF... haven't played it for like 6 or 8 years 16:05 zxkuqyb, you can launch invasions now 16:05 I keep meaning to try playing ADOM, but honestly I feel ADOM approaches SLEX levels of insanity at times. 16:07 don't tell mtf that! 16:07 -!- greqrg has joined #hardfought 16:08 I found ADOM harder to get into as a new player than Angband, but not as bad as DCSS. 16:08 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] Demo2 (Sam Clk Fem Law) killed Sir Garland, on T:28663 16:08 (In that regard.) 16:08 Put it on the back burner to play more NetHack variants and try Angband. May get back to it at some point. 16:08 I hate ADoM's timer 16:09 Angband never appealed to me 16:09 I do keep meaning to bring up the original PC-ROGUE and get the amulet and escape 16:10 i don't know if this is true 16:10 ooh, there's a ssh server for Rogue 16:10 but i read there's a bug in the original Rogue 16:10 where the food ration is an OP weapon 16:10 is this true? 16:12 StatueSurfer, some versions 16:12 okay 16:16 It also doesn't work on some platforms. It's due to the food ration having an undeclared variable in its stats which can cause it to become godslayer 16:16 -!- bouquet has joined #hardfought 16:16 so jonadab it seems that you're basically saying that the only way to balance the alignment system is for kills to never grant any alignment 16:17 StatueSurfer: Not sure about never, but the criteria definitely have to be reconsidered. 16:17 Either that, or you take the dnethack approach and make the penalties Do Things to your _max_ alignment. 16:17 Well, that is Fourk's approach for everyone but Bar. 16:17 aosdict: Well, not entirely. I mean, knights get alignment for killing hostile dragons, priests for undead. 16:18 hmmm 16:18 4k's alignment rework is easily my least liked part of 4k 16:18 StatueSurfer: The Fourk approach of making it different for every role isn't the only possible way to go. 16:18 FIQ: Propose something better that _works_. 16:19 yes, the fact that I don't have better alternatives 16:19 And by "works" I mean killing a bunch of sleeping monsters as a knight is a Bad Idea. 16:19 is why I don't express my distaste for it 16:19 except when it is brought up 16:19 allthough I prefer fiqhack's approach 16:19 set alignment to 0, then decrease, on penalties 16:20 i wonder why you'd prefer that approach :p 16:20 That prevents you from always being close to maximum (if you do things you're not supposed to), granted. 16:20 But it leaves recovering very very seasy. 16:20 *easy 16:20 not that easy 16:21 not if you're neutral 16:21 There are no lawful or chaotic monsters in the dungeon that you can kill :-( 16:22 aren't undead like the only chaotic monsters in the upper dungeon 16:22 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] Demo2 (Sam Clk Fem Law) killed the Nightmare, on T:28988 16:22 well and minor demons and regular demons 16:22 the Nightmare? 16:22 NCommander: That's Slash'EM. 16:22 That need not concern us here. 16:23 Anyone who tries to explain how Slash'EM's alignment record is balanced is going to just get laughs. 16:23 elves are chaotic 16:23 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] Demo2 (Sam Clk Fem Law) destroyed Lich, the Fiend of Earth, on T:28996 16:23 Except in dnethack, but drow are chaotic there. 16:23 jonadab: no that is dnethack 16:24 even so the vast majority of monsters in the upper dungeon are neutral i believe 16:24 StatueSurfer: A lot of them are, yes. 16:24 Chris_ANG: the Dex thing was initially a continuous function, but since Nethack hates floating-point numbers... the to-hit formula officially doesn't use them now :/ 16:25 slash'em's alignment record system is no worse than vanilla 16:25 not better either 16:25 and I had the same concerns with the dropping weapons thing, but it was ais' idea 16:26 i'm thinking maybe killing demons in Gehennom should always give the player alignment...? 16:26 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] Demo2 (Sam Clk Fem Law) killed Kary, the Fiend of Fire, on T:29030 16:26 since you're cutting your way to the Amulet 16:27 yes 16:27 more ways to gaining alignment 16:27 is just what the game needs 16:27 ha ha ha 16:27 !who 16:27 FIQ: [04hdf-us] ShivanHunter [07nd] DrakeMarshall [13dnh] Demo2 [13dnh] 16:27 FIQ: [12hdf-eu] No current players 16:27 see my goal wasn't to punish FOREVER for attacking a peaceful 16:27 jonadab, I didn't play much of SLASH'EM, but I felt it's early game was not well balanced. From what I've read, it's end game was much better than vanila 16:28 it was just to make it so you have to spend some effort atoning for it 16:28 NCommander: Slash'EM in general is not well balanced. 16:28 StatueSurfer: ah, so you intend to not do what 4k does 16:28 lose alignment 16:28 ruined forever 16:29 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] Demo2 (Sam Clk Fem Law) killed Kraken, the Fiend of Water, on T:29079 16:29 FIQ: That is a significant exaggeration. 16:29 I mean, yes, that's what it was like in 4.3.0.2 16:29 yes 16:29 It was a work in progress. 16:29 It's better now. 16:29 i haven't forgotten 16:29 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] Demo2 (Sam Clk Fem Law) killed Tiamat, the Fiend of Wind, on T:29104 16:29 it is still like that 16:29 for samurai 16:30 jonadab: do most roles still need to sacrifice unicorns to enter the quest 16:30 and some roles has weird means of alignment gain 16:30 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] Demo2 (Sam Clk Fem Law) killed Garland, on T:29125 16:30 that can be hard to pull of realibly 16:30 like knights 16:30 aosdict: No. 16:30 [04hdf-us] [13dnh] Demo2 (Sam Clk Fem Law) destroyed Chaos, on T:29138 16:31 jonadab: you tell me how a samurai get the alignment to do quest 16:31 Samurai has the toughest time of all roles, granted. 16:31 With alignment, that is. 16:31 If any role should get alignment slowly _in the absence of doing anything bad_, it's Samurai. 16:31 There's a thought. 16:32 I will consider that. 16:32 -!- deadnoob has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:32 -!- hpardis has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:32 And then double their penalties :-) 16:32 jonadab: how do I keep my rings safe in 4k? 16:32 I was planning that for alignments, but maybe it works better for roles. 16:32 -!- hpardis has joined #hardfought 16:32 FIQ: That is a work in progress. 16:32 I mean, I could say put them in your bag, but. 16:32 but they are rings... 16:32 jonadab: like maybe it would make more sense for that to apply to all lawfuls, and Sam get it as a side benefit. 16:32 Yes. 16:33 unlie wands 16:33 how exactly are samurai punished compared to vanilla in 4k? 16:33 you can't just tae them out when you need them 16:33 rings aren't very useful when inside bags 16:33 FIQ: Several kinds of wands aren't really useful that way either. 16:33 Fire, lightning, death, ... 16:33 StatueSurfer: you don't gain alignment by killing monsters 16:33 ^ 16:33 Mainly that. 16:34 at all? 16:34 even crossaligned hostile? 16:34 Also, their skill caps are adjusted, which is also a work in progress. 16:34 jonadab: you can keep them inside bags until you need them 16:34 StatueSurfer: Correct. 16:34 easily enough 16:34 that sounds 16:34 FIQ: No, because when you need them, you can't spare a turn. 16:34 slightly imbalanced 16:34 To take them out. 16:34 if you can't spare a turn to tae out a wand 16:34 you are playing poorly 16:34 oh dear 16:35 *take 16:35 it means you did a tactical mistake 16:35 FIQ: I mean, if you _can_ spare turns for fooling around with bags, then you don't need those wands really. 16:35 Because it's not an actual emergency. 16:35 Teleportation is another example. 16:35 do you also keep FH open at all times? 16:35 It's an escape item. 16:36 and tele 16:36 Teleportation, definitely. 16:36 oh 16:36 Full healing, I would if I could. But that doesn't work evne in vanilla. 16:36 that's why you're so slow 16:36 because you have to spend time finding fire traps 16:36 Because I like to have escape items available? 16:36 so your stuff doesn't burn up 16:36 Fire traps don't damage wands? 16:36 in open inventory 16:37 they damage scrolls 16:37 and poitions 16:37 Wand of teleportation. 16:37 otions 16:37 -i 16:37 *potions 16:37 (and books) 16:37 Books you stash. 16:37 jonadab: wands of full healing? 16:37 [04hdf-us] [07nd] ShivanHunter (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 712 points, T:1035, killed by an orc zombie 16:37 FIQ: Full healing you can't keep in inventory even in vanilla, because potion. 16:38 Both fire *and* frost kill it. 16:38 that was my point 16:38 I have plans to mitigate this somewhat in .5 16:38 FIQ: So because _some_ useful items can't be kept in open inventory, none of them should be, is that what you're saying? 16:38 anyway, unless you keep out a backup wand of everything, you can definitely get caught needing one from a bag when you don't want to use a turn 16:38 because wands run out of charges in the heat of battle 16:39 hothraxxa: Some wands (like cold, sdd) aren't needed in combat. 16:39 i am thinking o teleport 16:39 hothraxxa: my point was that you can afford to stash them 16:39 inbeteen 16:39 [04hdf-us] [07nd] ShivanHunter (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 171 points, T:310, killed by a large kobold 16:39 *inbetween 16:39 and if you can't, you did a tactical mistake 16:39 sleep 16:40 well fiq, more power to you if you can anticipate what happens when the mob shows up 16:43 -!- bouquet has quit [Quit: bouquet] 16:45 [04hdf-us] [07nd] ShivanHunter (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 445 points, T:1065, killed by a little dog called Scrappy 16:47 okay so to enter the quest in vanilla does your max alignment or your alignment record need to be 20? 16:47 or both? 16:51 [12hdf-eu] [12slex] k2 (Loc Sen Mal Cha), 0 points, T:251, killed by a monster (wild rabbit) 16:52 [04hdf-us] [12slex] k2 (Val Dwa Mal Law), 111 points, T:433, killed by a monster (marine goblin) 16:53 okay both need to be at 20 16:53 ooh 16:53 no wonder 16:53 FFCBot is not in #em.slashem.me 16:53 err FCCBot 16:55 dang this is a tough balancing act 16:56 because if you make killing all monsters not give alignment, you basically screw the player unless there's an altar somewhere in the main dungeon 16:56 and if you give them any alignment for killing even crossaligned hostile monsters then killing peacefuls doesn't really matter 16:57 so the only solution seems to be making only some monsters give alignment when killed 16:58 and then it becomes a whole other issue of exactly what to allow the player to gain alignment from... 16:59 StatueSurfer: there is another solution, in which you give less-rewarding or more infrequent ways to gain alignment that don't depend on religion 16:59 like what? 17:00 well, like what I said a bit ago, one thing I want to do is give lawfuls a very slow trickle of alignment points that you don't have to do anything to get, except not do unlawful things 17:01 oh right 17:03 but then how do neutrals and chaotics gain alignment? 17:04 if we can come up with more widely applicable examples of chaotic behavior, that would be good for chaotics 17:05 -!- greqrg has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05 hm 17:05 like maybe angering peacefuls gives them an alignment bonus (would need to watch out with gremlin splitting though) 17:05 that seems to imbalance chaotics 17:06 if the whole point is that the player *isn't* supposed to go around wantonly murdering peaceful monsters without suffering the consquences 17:06 "wantonly murdering peaceful monsters" sounds chaotic to me 17:06 I'm not sure why it is a penalty for all alignments, tbh 17:06 <[Demo]> yeah that bothers me 17:07 game balance obviously 17:07 ? 17:07 <[Demo]> when im chaotic i wanna do whatever i want 17:07 so that everyone doesn't play chaotics to murder everything 17:07 without penalty 17:07 <[Demo]> counter it 17:07 i'm trying to balance the alignment system, not wildly imbalance it in favor of one alignment 17:08 StatueSurfer: currently, as several people have said, you can murder everything without (a real) penalty anyway, *regardless* of alignment 17:08 again: i'm trying to fix that 17:08 currently i seem to have the "you can't murder peacefuls without lasting consequences" end covered 17:09 but not the "that doesn't wreck your run completely" down yet 17:10 anyway before you made your suggestion about letting chaotics and nobody else in my variant walk all over peacefuls and get rewarded for it 17:10 i was going to make a suggestion 17:10 based on the example of the chaotic archaelogist 17:10 who gets rewarded for destroying a historic statue 17:10 wait no 17:10 digging up a headstone 17:11 that should be a small alignment bonus for all chaotics too, come to think of it 17:11 that's what chaotic archaelogists get rewarded for 17:11 yeah see that kind of thing 17:11 not as much as cha arc, but something 17:12 StatueSurfer: I'd like to hear your argument as to why attacking peacefuls being a penalty for everyone is better for balance. 17:14 well it was obvious looking at the source code that killing peacefuls was supposed to be a big deal first off 17:14 and to me it makes sense that your deity might be mad if you kill innocent monsters 17:14 at least for lawfuls and neutrals 17:15 thus, not doing it for chaotics gives them something very easy to do that the other two alignments can't take advantage of 17:15 yes, and...? 17:15 chaotic already suffers from some downsides 17:15 that lawful and neutral don't 17:15 [04hdf-us] [07nd] Grasshopper (Bar Hum Mal Neu) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:57088 17:16 That was Dr Worm actually 17:17 \o/ 17:17 i think that except for the artifact issue, chaotics in vanilla have fewer disadvantages than lawfuls 17:18 K2: Dr Worm is your worm brother 17:18 or sister 17:18 i can just improve artifacts if that's your primary concern 17:18 depending on your view, as worms are hermaphrodites 17:18 name it Pat 17:18 StatueSurfer: artifacts aren't really the point of contention, since I assume they'll eventually be rebalanced anyway 17:18 K2: Still sad your worm avatar died on Astral last game 17:18 but stuff like appeasing your god being harder 17:19 its ok 17:19 K2: Dr Pat? 17:19 my spirit worm had a great run and served its purpose 17:19 that is a popular brand of rolling tobacco in Australia (I used to smoke it, back in those bad old days) 17:20 Also, "Dr Pat" is the name of a local Doctor (a lady) in the village 17:20 they're aren't a whole lot of ways for chaotics to anger their deities to begin with (except in my variant, by killing peacefuls) 17:20 but i guess i could include an exception if you're wielding stormbringer and you're chaotic 17:24 :) 17:25 [04hdf-us] [04gh] k2 (Arc Gno Fem Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4953 17:26 no shame 17:28 any further objections aosdict? 17:28 E - a +2 pair of iron gauntlets of power and brilliance (being worn). 17:28 nice contradiction 17:29 A - [ a +0 cloak of protection (being worn) 17:29 B - [ a +1 studded leather armor (being worn) 17:29 D - [ an uncursed +0 fedora (being worn) 17:29 E - [ a +2 pair of iron gauntlets of power and brilliance (being worn) 17:29 F - [ a +0 pair of leather snow boots (being worn) 17:29 this armor shop just improved my game considerably 17:29 does the "brilliance" counter the negative effects of iron? 17:30 i dont think so 17:30 i dont have any spelled learned to test 17:30 well equipped for skiing 17:30 heh 17:30 you have snow boots 17:30 and a cool hat 17:30 (it'll blow off as you go down the slopes, you know 17:30 ) 17:30 StatueSurfer: wait, deities would be angered by a chaotic killing something with stormbringer? that sounds really unintuitive 17:31 lol Grasshopper 17:31 that's literally the opposite of what i said 17:32 basically wielding stormbringer is the only way a chaotic can kill peacefuls without incurring a penalty 17:32 just let 'em kill anyway, they are chaotic 17:33 or assume that chaotic = chaotic good (elves and rangers) and that lawful = lawful evil (mafia, assassins guild, etc) 17:33 and turn that completely around 17:34 chaotics don't have so many disadvantages that giving them an overwhelming alignment advantage over the other two alignments balances the game 17:35 I just have fundamental disagreements with the whole law vs neutral vs chaos alignment trichotomy 17:35 but anywaya that is what we have 17:35 yes it's not perfect because there's no good-neutral-evil axis 17:35 but i've taken to the wiki's interpretation of the alignments 17:36 which includes that chaotics basically just flout the normal customs of society 17:36 see: alignment bonus for direct theft 17:37 clearly this means elves live in a socialist communes 17:37 F - a +2 pair of iron shoes of displacement (being worn). 17:37 rofl 17:37 <[Demo]> probably do, i dont trust elves 17:37 they're hippies 17:37 diry hippies 17:37 dirty 17:38 they dont need to shave, but still... hippies! 17:38 I;ve known some great hippies, also been ripped off by others 17:38 my wife is hippy-dippy 17:38 Grasshopper: yes, nethack's alignment axis is basically a line from lawful good to chaotic neutral 17:38 and orcs just rob shops because that's how transactions are done in their normal society 17:38 had expensive camera stolen by hippies that I gave a lift too once 17:38 i told her as long as she shaves her pits and legs i'm cool with it 17:38 <[Demo]> heh 17:38 from a commune and all 17:38 but assuming we are not planning to add a good/evil axis: 17:39 "i want this long sword for 5 zorkmids" "no" "let's fight over it!" 17:39 I've always told my ladies that they don't have to shave 17:39 ^ normal orc business dealing 17:39 some have done so anyway, some just don't anyway 17:39 chaotic *gods* really shouldn't see a problem in you killing a fellow chaotic, it's natural to them 17:40 their business really I don't care so long as they don't pong 17:40 co aligned altar dlvl 4 17:40 chaotic is chaotic 17:40 looking even better 17:40 i'll be dead soon 17:41 okay if i'm going to rebalance chaotic artifacts to not be trash and allow them to kill peacefuls with stormbringer 17:42 i feel like that's sufficiently balanced outside finding non-sacrifice alignment gain methods 17:45 -!- bobbydurrett has joined #hardfought 17:46 -!- shpingrlde has joined #hardfought 17:48 see you all later then 17:48 -!- StatueSurfer has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:49 see you 17:52 okay then 17:52 chaotics should definitely get an alignment bonus for killing any peaceful 17:52 there 17:54 -!- shpingrlde has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 18:00 [04hdf-us] [07nd] Grasshopper (Bar Hum Mal Neu) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:57089 18:05 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 18:07 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 18:08 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 18:08 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 18:09 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:09 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 18:09 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 18:10 go Grasshopper! 18:17 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 18:17 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 18:18 -!- Kontroll1r has joined #hardfought 18:20 -!- StatueSurfer has joined #hardfought 18:20 hi 18:20 Hello StatueSurfer, Welcome to #hardfought 18:21 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 18:21 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 18:21 -!- Grassy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21 -!- Kontroller has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:22 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 18:22 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 18:22 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:23 -!- Grasshopper_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:24 [04hdf-us] [07nd] krm26 (Wiz Hum Fem Cha), 1214 points, T:1035, killed by a crossbow bolt 18:24 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 18:25 -!- Grassy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28 -!- StatueSurfer has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:40 -!- StatueSurfer has joined #hardfought 18:47 <[Demo]> so i heard the devteam was gonna change newt's alignment from 0 18:47 <[Demo]> there goes newt neutrality 18:47 I'm not aware of any such plans 18:47 ais523: Message from aosdict at 2017-12-18 18:42 EST: thank you for adding YANI tags to discussions so I don't miss them! Much appreciated :) 18:47 <[Demo]> im sorry ais its a really dumb pun 19:02 -!- bouquet has joined #hardfought 19:08 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 19:39 -!- bobbydurrett has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:06 -!- StatueSurfer has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:17 -!- hpardis has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:34 -!- rumflump has joined #hardfought 21:22 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 21:22 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 21:28 [12hdf-eu] [12slex] k2 (Gla Orc Fem Cha), 2 points, T:281, killed by a monster (grid xorn) 21:29 [04hdf-us] [12slex] k2 (Lad Clk Mal Neu), 40 points, T:434, killed by a monster (grid bug) 21:42 [04hdf-us] [04gh] k2 (Arc Gno Fem Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a water nymph, on T:7683 21:48 -!- Jonathanhanes_ has joined #hardfought 21:48 !who 21:48 Jonathanhanes_: [04hdf-us] k2 [04gh] 21:48 Jonathanhanes_: [12hdf-eu] No current players 21:54 Morning world 22:12 [04hdf-us] [04gh] k2 (Arc Gno Fem Neu) retrieved the Mine's End luckstone, on T:9831 22:26 -!- StatueSurfer has joined #hardfought 22:41 -!- bouquet has quit [Quit: bouquet] 22:41 -!- noty has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:53 That was slightly terrorifying 22:53 * NCommander got his GDSM 22:58 [04hdf-us] [04gh] k2 (Arc Gno Fem Neu) had scimitar bestowed upon her by Camaxtli, on T:14189 23:01 #turn is OP 23:01 damn 23:01 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:07 [04hdf-us] [04gh] k2 (Arc Gno Fem Neu) had scimitar bestowed upon her by Camaxtli, on T:14741 23:07 !8ball test 23:07 bug_sniper: Outlook not so good 23:35 -!- hpardis has joined #hardfought 23:35 [12hdf-eu] [07nd] Kontroller (Val Hum Fem Law), 471 points, T:2060, died of starvation, while frozen by a monster's gaze 23:39 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 23:46 [04hdf-us] [10fh] NCommander (Pri Elf Mal Cha), 78467 points, T:26405, killed by Nalzok 23:46 ARGH 23:46 your quest nemesis? 23:47 really? 23:47 StatueSurfer, he hit for 30 points of damage, and I failed to escape in time 23:47 :( 23:47 you should be prepared for that kind of stuff going in 23:49 StatueSurfer, AC -20, was at full health going in 23:49 !rng Priest|Ranger 23:49 NCommander: Priest 23:49 no scroll of scare monster? 23:51 assuming normal distribution he averages 38 damage per turn 23:51 without factoring in spellcasting 23:52 scrolls of scare monster doesn't work in fiqhack 23:52 on unique monsters 23:52 no 3.6 shenanigans allowed 23:54 oh 23:54 ~~boo~~