00:23 -!- firemonkey\splat has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 00:30 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 00:44 DIED: buffy (Cav-Dwa-Fem-Law), 2386 points, 5183 turns, killed by a purple worm on altorg 00:47 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 00:57 -!- Chris_ANG has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:01 -!- Ninetale has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:02 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:18 -!- raisse\splat has joined #hardfought 01:18 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse\splat] by ChanServ 01:19 -!- mcnick has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:24 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 01:24 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 01:25 -!- raisse\splat has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:28 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:52 !tell Chris_ANG I've managed to make the dungeon have more than 127 levels in slex. There might still be bugs, but saving and loading works alright, as does visiting levels with internal indexes >127. https://github.com/SLASHEM-Extended/SLASHEM-Extended/commit/edc145acc3f7a7a237898d1fdd4be1e7b3368c43 - maybe this is interesting for dnethack as well? 01:52 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 02:00 -!- fatty has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:05 -!- stenno_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:23 EPI: the sanctum at dlvl100 has a magic portal that leads to an extra branch, which goes back all the way to dlvl1 and has a MacGuffin there. Without it, you cannot beat the game. And the branch is filled completely with mazes. Levelporting in that branch is not possible. 02:23 (And I could actually implement that now! :D) 02:30 -!- fatty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:00 -!- Grassy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:21 -!- katung has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:46 DIED: Tangles (Arc-Gno-Mal-Neu), 1034 points, 2759 turns, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted blue jelly on hdf-au 03:57 EPI: the walls of the mazes are "lava walls": they block vision like normal walls, but walking into them works like lava, except that levitation/flying doesn't help you. 03:58 EPI: also, there are monsters in the mazes with an attack that does knockback, which if you're not careful (or if you're unlucky) can knock you into the lava walls. 03:59 hi jonadab! all dungeon overhaul proposals can be overhauled now, since I managed to make it so that the dungeon can be longer than 127 levels! :D 03:59 Yeah, I'll be sure to include a thousand-level branch in my next update, if I think it'll improve the game. 04:00 this is the commit: https://github.com/SLASHEM-Extended/SLASHEM-Extended/commit/edc145acc3f7a7a237898d1fdd4be1e7b3368c43 - it might take some changes to make it work in nethack4-based variants, but it should work :) 04:01 DIED: Tangles (Arc-Gno-Mal-Neu), 833 points, 909 turns, killed by a pony on hdf-au 04:01 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 04:02 -!- stenno is now known as Guest52060 04:05 DIED: Luna (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 3914 points, 4110 turns, killed by a dagger on hdf-eu 04:06 -!- Guest52060 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:08 LarienTelrunya: Note that for NH4, the big problem with adding a ton of levels levels would be that you'd need more RNG state. 04:08 huh? why's that? 04:11 Because in addition to the eighty or so RNGs used for various special purposes, there's also one for each level. 04:11 DIED: Tangles (Arc-Gno-Mal-Neu), 2839 points, 259 turns, killed by a goblin on hdf-au 04:11 Currently, NUMBER_OF_LEVEL_RNGS is defined at 110. 04:11 huh, that seems complicated... does the game generate each of the levels at game start?! 04:11 Not sure. 04:11 But each one is generated with its own rng. 04:12 Which is initialized at game start. 04:12 So no matter what two players playing the same seed do before they reach the level, the level itself will be the same. 04:12 anyway, I've made a "dungeon overhaul proposal" now, which is certainly not as big as yours or ais523's, but it shows what I want to do with the new ability to have many dungeon levels: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Bluescreenofdeath/Blog :) 04:13 jonadab: is there a reason as to why this couldn't simply be extended? 04:13 FIQ: Well, changing the amount of RNG state would break save compat, but other than that, probably not. 04:17 DIED: Eleven (Wiz-Hum-Fem-Neu), 20873 points, 15522 turns, killed by an invisible bugbear on hardfought 04:27 jonadab: were you trying TGGW running under a windows terminal? 04:27 the windows terminal does very weird things if you try to resize it 04:28 and it's impossible to recover without restarting CMD entirely 04:28 which sounds like your problem 04:28 that you had 04:28 FIQ: I just ran the .exe by double-clicking it. 04:28 That's what Windows users do, is it not? 04:29 I played for all of a minute before I decided that the game was not impressing me. 04:30 (Not that I'd be able to play it on a regular basis anyway; anything I can't install on a real computer and run in a terminal session is going to get at most occasional play time from me.) 04:30 tggw has a very cute resting and recovery system 04:34 -!- Spontiff has joined #hardfought 04:37 DIED: Tangles (Arc-Gno-Mal-Neu), 404 points, 1059 turns, killed by a small mimic on hdf-au 04:45 CHALLENGE COMPLETED! wooble completed the Waldo challenge. 04:45 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 04:45 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 04:46 DIED: Tangles (Arc-Gno-Mal-Neu), 818 points, 771 turns, killed by a dwarf on hdf-au 04:58 DIED: Tangles (Arc-Gno-Mal-Neu), 792 points, 835 turns, killed by an Uruk-hai on hdf-au 05:12 DIED: Tangles (Arc-Gno-Mal-Neu), 2317 points, 308 turns, killed by a sewer rat on hdf-au 05:21 [07nd] Terumasa (Val Hum Fem Law) was crowned "The Hand of Elbereth" by Tyr, on T:24090 05:27 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:28 ASCENDED: elenmirie (Wiz-Gno-Fem-Neu), 1115636 points, 29162 turns, ascended on hdf-eu https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/e/elenmirie/dn36/dumplog/1510610218.dn36.txt 05:28 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 05:28 crankin em out! 05:29 DIED: Tangles (Arc-Gno-Mal-Neu), 3248 points, 623 turns, killed by a giant bat on hdf-au 05:32 DIED: Tangles (Arc-Gno-Mal-Neu), 592 points, 340 turns, killed by a hill orc on hdf-au 05:32 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:45 CHALLENGE COMPLETED! bebing completed the Waldo challenge. 05:51 -!- StinkyGreene has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:02 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 06:03 -!- stenno is now known as Guest20566 06:07 -!- Guest20566 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:19 DIED: dgoddard (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1394 points, 2030 turns, killed by a bolt of fire on hardfought 06:25 -!- firemonkey\splat has joined #hardfought 06:31 [10fh] Satoshi VIII (puck) (Sam Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed greased +3 silver dragon scale mail", on T:17180 06:32 -!- Webmant7 has joined #hardfought 06:35 [10fh] Satoshi VIII (puck) (Sam Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed Magic Mirror of Merlin", on T:17228 06:36 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:44 -!- Webmant7 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:50 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 06:55 -!- Webmant7 has joined #hardfought 07:03 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 07:03 -!- Haudegen has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:03 -!- stenno is now known as Guest22871 07:04 DIED: elenmirie (Rog-Orc-Fem-Cha), 9777 points, 5065 turns, killed by an acidic corpse on hdf-eu 07:05 -!- bleeko has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 56.0.2/20171024165158]] 07:08 -!- Guest22871 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:09 !tell ais523 the keybinds for the object menus/etc should perhaps be documented somewhere... yesterday, MTF [fiqhack player] asked me for a search feature in menus. I decided to look into it today. Turns out it already existed -- which was news to both me and him 07:09 Will do, FIQ! 07:09 -!- Webmant7 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:10 -!- Webmant7 has joined #hardfought 07:17 -!- StinkyGreene has joined #hardfought 07:27 -!- Webmant7 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:29 DIED: dgoddard (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu), 3041 points, 4784 turns, killed by a crocodile on hardfought 07:31 DIED: elenmirie (Rog-Orc-Fem-Cha), 3473 points, 1240 turns, killed by a gnome lord on hdf-eu 07:31 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 07:34 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought 07:38 LarienTelrunya: I read your blog post. While you have some good points, I think that ultimately there is just a difference of developer philosophy in answering the question "Should a sufficiently skilled player be able to win consistently?" 07:38 [12slex] rikersan (Gan Ang Mal Cha), 142 points, T:440, killed by a monster (invisible Mr. Kirklareli, the shopkeeper) 07:39 hi aosdict! yeah; the slex design philosophy is rather different from the other forks :) what's your opinion on the >127 dungeon levels thing? 07:39 !lastgame rikersan 07:39 LarienTelrunya: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rikersan/slex/dumplog/1510759988.slex.txt 07:39 rikersan: Why? 07:40 ? 07:40 why'd I die? 07:40 rikersan │ fiq: please make throwing eggs to pets possible 07:40 oh 07:40 because they should be able to eat eggs 07:40 If the length of the dungeon were multiplied by about 2.5, I think I would just stop playing. 07:40 they eat them on the floor like treats tho 07:40 what if it is trice 07:40 -!- Webmant7 has joined #hardfought 07:40 aosdict: 127 includes branches and stuff, the dungeon has approximately 110 levels as-is 07:41 rikersan: they don't eat trice 07:41 true 07:42 aosdict: aww... but it would be fun if the sanctum were on level 100 and you'd then get an extra dungeon to complete with the amulet that is 100 levels long! 07:42 ~53 from main dungeon, at most 10 from mines, 3 for Vlad's, at most 7 for Quest, 1 for Ludios, 4 for Soko... what am I missing? 07:42 planes 07:43 okay, +5 for those 07:43 I guess I overestimated 07:43 but I think you were counting only the main dungeon ones 07:43 that's 84 btw 07:43 not that far off 07:46 [12slex] rikersan (Gan Ang Mal Cha), 834 points, T:697, killed by a boulder 07:46 LarienTelrunya: I am one of the people who says that there should never be a way for a player playing normally to die (or get any other severe "bad RNG" effect like unintended polymorph) with no chance to intervene or recover. 07:47 -!- dave____ has joined #hardfought 07:47 !tell ais523 3.6.0 doesn't have vt_tiledata 07:47 Will do, FIQ! 07:48 FIQ: oh, is that a 3.6.1 feature then? 07:48 aosdict: hmm... well I'm one of the people who says that such a game would be very boring; I'd probably play it once and then say "ahh my victory is predetermined unless I majorly screw up, let's play something more interesting instead" 07:48 ais523: Message from FIQ at 2017-11-14 05:45 EST: prompt_inline is completely broken, I wonder if this happened after channelization? 07:48 ais523: Message from FIQ at 2017-11-15 10:09 EST: the keybinds for the object menus/etc should perhaps be documented somewhere... yesterday, MTF [fiqhack player] asked me for a search feature in menus. I decided to look into it today. Turns out it already existed -- which was news to both me and him 07:48 ais523: Message from FIQ at 2017-11-15 10:47 EST: 3.6.0 doesn't have vt_tiledata 07:48 also search-in-menus is a NitroHack feature which I've never used 07:49 -!- Muad has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:49 what's the use case? it'd be easier to document / tweak it to work better if we knew why people used it 07:49 DIED: dgoddard (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Cha), 204 points, 569 turns, killed by a potion of acid on hardfought 07:49 random thought: rangers should recognize all types of bow/arrow 07:49 ais523: remember your old blog post about memory management and the crash upon having too many dungeon levels in NetHack? https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Bluescreenofdeath/Blog :D I figured out how to break the 127 level limit! 07:49 including ya/yumi 07:52 LarienTelrunya: it's clearly possible to lift the limit, you just have to change round several things internall 07:53 also, 72 levels was already far too many, and you're increasing it to 100? 07:53 yeah, 100 levels in the main dungeon, and after getting the amulet there's an extra dungeon that is 100 levels long and has to be completed while holding the amulet, i.e. no teleportation :D 07:54 or at least that's what I plan to do 07:54 LarienTelrunya: also, most of the variants' response to "winning is too formulaic" is conducts 07:54 yani - kinda like katana is a relatively great longsword, treat yumi as "very well crafted bow". and then allow elf/orc multishot to apply with yumi. and then dianabow can be a yumi to make it less of a booby prize sometimes! 07:54 LarienTelrunya: why? 07:54 seriously, why? 07:55 I mean, I could say that about 99% of Slash'EM Extended, but this is crazy enough to actually make me say it as opposed to just thinking it 07:55 ais523: it's in 3.6.1? no? 07:55 * FIQ verifies 07:55 nope 07:55 FIQ: I don't check my 3.6.0 install very often 07:55 I hardly play it 07:55 LarienTelrunya: most of your concerns about unnethack, for example, could be alleviated by playing a genoless wishless game 07:55 it's either $NEXTVERSION or 3.4.3 07:55 ais523: well, I want the game to be longer ;) 07:55 ais523: for attention and reactions, best as I can tell 07:55 ais523: mhm 07:55 well I checked 3.6.1 just now 07:56 and can confirm that no, it isn't there 07:56 ais523: just joining in on the pings :) 07:56 aosdict: well done! 07:56 ? 07:57 ais523: also I'm surprised you ask LarienTelrunya that, I've gone past the point of asking "but why" quite a while ago 07:57 :p 07:57 on the pinging. 07:57 I guess you never got past it 07:57 If you have to ask "why", you are not a member of the target audience. <-- the one thing Slash'em Extended has in common with textmode Quake. 07:58 ais523: MTF asked me about it because he thinks that if he can search for his pickaxe in his bag, it would be more efficient than using the existing filtering 07:58 it is quite ironic to say "all the variants have it wrong! their games are still boring!" and then add in 150 more levels to slex 07:58 FIQ: there are five hits for the string `vt_tiledata` in $NEXTVERSION source, and I doubt they were added less than 4 hours ago 07:59 ais523: hmm 07:59 I guess I somehow missed it? 07:59 I started by opening a game 07:59 and not finding it in options 07:59 aosdict: but all those other variants only have cannon fodder in their Gehennoms! the only exception is dnethack, which sprinkles in a few "lol u just died" monsters among all the cannon fodder, and is otherwise still boring :P 07:59 then I went at git log 07:59 grepping for vt_tiledata 07:59 but you are right 07:59 it is in the source 07:59 just rather well hidden I guess 08:00 was added shortly after 3.6.0 was released, apparently 08:00 sorry 08:00 but why isn't it in options? 08:00 FIQ: it only works in the config file, it's not an in-game option 08:00 hm 08:00 oh right 08:00 that is a thing that NH3 has 08:00 I acutally don't know why it isn't an in-game option, you'd have to ask paxed I guess? 08:03 !role gnome 08:03 shpingrlde: No variant gnome on server. 08:05 DIED: elenmirie (Rog-Orc-Fem-Cha), 2579 points, 1979 turns, killed by a pony on hdf-eu 08:05 hmm 08:07 I wonder if lit early mines in fiqhack is the reason fiqhack earlygame is significantly easier 08:07 Luxidream claims this 08:08 DIED: dgoddard (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Cha), 3185 points, 3061 turns, killed by a hill orc on hardfought 08:09 LarienTelrunya: based on your post, it seems like slex's gehennom monsters cut back on the "lol u just died" monsters but instead have lots of unpredictable "lol I destroyed half of your defenses, have fun" stuff instead 08:09 DIED: elenmirie (Rog-Orc-Fem-Cha), 102 points, 489 turns, killed by a fox on hdf-eu 08:16 DIED: davez (Mon-Hum-Mal-Cha), 14004 points, 5906 turns, killed by a vampire lord on hdf-eu 08:17 -!- Guest29617 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:17 [12slex] rikersan (Sex Ang Mal Cha), 839 points, T:748, killed by a monster (Inspector Lieutenant) 08:17 -!- rikersan has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:17 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought 08:17 LarienTelrunya: in terms of "large dungeon bug testing", try migrating things to and from the levels below 127 08:18 out of things that you haven't tested yet, that's the one that seems to have the largest potential to break 08:18 ah, monsters levelporting, right, I need to test that 08:18 also, level-map-erasing amnesia is probably bugged as well 08:18 -!- elenmirie\splat has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:18 -!- elenmirie\splat has joined #hardfought 08:19 bones? 08:19 although bones aren't subject to the 127 limit, they have a different limit instead 08:19 something like 26 special levels per branch, IIRC 08:19 oh damn, good point 08:19 I guess they're case-insensitive? 08:19 on Windows, definitely 08:20 it's possible they're case-sensitive on Linux 08:20 which is a good reason to make them all the same case, really 08:20 although, I guess one could assign the same letter to several special levels in the same branch, and then they'll be "shared" 08:20 in fact, slex already does that 08:20 LarienTelrunya: also your views on dungeon overhaul are pretty "interesting" 08:21 but given that you're explicitly trying to make it harder, rather than more balanced, they may be defensible? 08:21 and I'll probably need to do that in my 100-level branch, since it's gonna have way more than 26 special levels 08:21 my view is typically that the game suffers from balance problems where some things become trivial due to the game's formulas not scaling 08:21 and it makes more sense to fix the formulas rather than add lots more random stuff 08:22 well, I'm a player for whom too little variety leads to boredom very quickly, but maybe that's just me 08:23 ais523: one thing that occured to me a while back when discussing the strength of a purely melee wizard 08:23 LarienTelrunya: well, take 3.4.3 Gehennom, for example; the monsters are in theory very different from each other, just you don't notice because you have a full set of the more important trinsics and the damage and accuracy formulas are broken, so they all feel the same 08:23 is that I think it isn't actually worse than cavemen 08:23 -!- StinkyGreene has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:23 who *don't* have thins to fal bac on 08:23 *back 08:24 whereas wizards can daggerstorm? 08:24 (this discussion came up on RLdiscord) 08:24 yes 08:24 (the typical "melee wizard" build I've seen can't cast spells due to the use of heavy armour, but daggerstorming will still work) 08:24 Luxidream likes to play wizards without casting at all for some reason 08:25 -!- Webmant7 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:25 he didn't like my nerf to their dagger skill :P 08:26 why not play rogue in that case? 08:26 that said, I still like my wizard/artificier split 08:26 fiqhack wiz start with no magical tools at all 08:26 but 4 spellbooks 08:26 force bolt, magic missile and 2 random 08:27 -!- Webmant has joined #hardfought 08:27 ais523: I thought tou was supposed to be the artificier usex 08:27 *user? 08:28 tell me more about this split, is it written down somewhere? lux and I (in the OotC channel) were talking about how we miss the variety and (sometimes) creativity inspired by the nh3 wizard who can cast the occasional force bolt 08:28 FIQ: huh, I wasn't planning that, but it makes some sort of sense 08:28 VS the significantly more wizardly, but very straightforward, infinite-force-bolts-and-magic-missiles FH wizard 08:28 ais523: I mean 08:28 shpingrlde: in old, old vanilla, wizards were defined by starting with a bunch of magic items, because spellcasting didn't work properly yet 08:28 now, wizards are a) the best spellcasters and b) have the most magic items in starting inventory 08:28 they start with a bunch of tools, and PYEC can charge things 08:29 the plan was to make wizards more into pure casters, and artificiers would be the role who got a good starting inventory and were specialised in using items 08:29 they're the best "evocables" user in the game as-is 08:29 FIQ: right, I saw it as soon as you said it, just not before 08:30 the normal perception of Tou is "hard start, easy finish" but that maybe isn't that interesting from a gameplay point of view 08:30 giving Tou a bit of a harder lategame, plus more magical items to start with, would be a different approach that might work better 08:30 fiqhack tou used to be arguably broken 08:31 I rather like the tourist start. darts work great, camera is great, your reliance on finding a good weapon is WAY lower than a healer's crippling starting kit 08:31 because I gave them several guranteed tools, including a marker 08:31 and the identify-shop-things from un 08:31 shpingrlde: healers start with a kitten (or equivalent), that's a good weapon 08:32 so once you identified enchant armor, you could get a lot of AC 08:32 and enchant a decent weapon 08:32 -!- Webmant has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:33 now their marker is 0:0 to begin with 08:34 you'll have to find a way to charge it (maybe the PYEC?) first :-) 08:34 I don't trust that kitten to have my back like a stack of darts and a camera do. kitten gets distracted, trapp[door]ed, etc 08:34 They stop to eat. 08:35 Which makes them less than useful against groups of weak monsters. 08:35 and the potions have no spell failure or mana cost :D 08:35 until they get full 08:35 ais523: you should add that feature to nh3 :P 08:35 FIQ: Good point. 08:35 FIQ: which one? 08:35 pet satiation (but not choking!) 08:36 The one where pets get full. 08:36 DIED: elenmirie (Rog-Orc-Fem-Cha), 2239 points, 2274 turns, killed by an elf zombie, while praying on hdf-eu 08:36 I'm a bit wary of pet satiation, it's too easy to get wrong 08:36 what do you mean? 08:36 it has worked just fine in fh IME 08:36 yani - pets can choke on stuff they're *crazy* about (tripe) 08:36 -!- Webmant has joined #hardfought 08:36 shpingrlde: no 08:37 FIQ: there were quite a few bizarre bugs when I merged it into NH4 08:37 people will hate you 08:37 those got fixed by the time you forked fiqhack 08:37 ais523: yes, it was one of the first things I addressed 08:37 once I was made aware of there bein issues 08:37 *being 08:38 ais523: would you accept a patch towards 3.6.1 for it? 08:38 not unilaterally; if the rest of the devteam thought it was a good idea I wouldn't object 08:39 DIED: Luxidream (Cav-Dwa-Fem-Law), 1273 points, 2498 turns, killed by a jaguar on hardfought 08:39 but I also wouldn't rush to merge it myself 08:39 ok 08:39 then I don't think I'll bother, seems like wasted effort in that case 08:41 -!- raisse\splat has joined #hardfought 08:41 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse\splat] by ChanServ 08:44 DIED: elenmirie (Rog-Orc-Fem-Cha), 786 points, 1162 turns, killed by a giant bat on hdf-eu 08:47 -!- Webmant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:48 ais523: shpingrlde: if tou is considered interesting as-is, maybe a new dedicated role would still make more sense 08:49 some people like it as is 08:49 and tou's artifier capabilities can be considered part of their "all-around" traits 08:49 and an artificier would pull it off better focused 08:50 -!- raisse\splat has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:51 for example, maybe an artificier can innately see charges on things, or use wands with an elevated skill level, etc 08:52 -!- raisse\splat has joined #hardfought 08:52 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse\splat] by ChanServ 08:52 and I could move the priest writing bonus to them 08:52 but have much worse weapon capabilities to compensate 08:53 it could be the one role that finally has master skillcap in wands if it sucked at weapons :) 08:53 -!- HTTPS has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:53 but what would a blessed wand do then :P 08:53 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 08:54 nothin.... eventually. most of the meaningful part of the game you'd still be training the skill up tho 08:54 idk, sucking at spellcasting AND weapons sounds bad. dubious whether your wand system is enough of a replacement for the classics 08:56 -!- rikersan has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:56 basically I could imagine a role like this who start with the consumables wizards did, maybe one of the scrolls is guranteed to be charging, offensive wands, a marker and perhaps random tools 08:57 but be restricted in the vast majority of weapon skills, like a monk 08:57 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought 08:57 -!- Webmant has joined #hardfought 08:58 not sure what their quest would entail 08:58 golems? 08:59 CHALLENGE COMPLETED! spontiff completed the Dig-Dug challenge. 08:59 their quest arti could be something that gives them double-damae with tools/wands (like MMoM for knights with spells) and invoke-charging effect like PYEC 08:59 for a wand/tool role? 08:59 would such a role be interesting though? 09:00 is this a niche that the game could stand to have 09:00 gnomes are obvious contenders for a race choice at least.. they're known for their tinkering 09:01 slex has a "wandkeeper role", quest artifcat is a neutral intelligent "Charged USB stick", #invoke for charging 09:01 base item is a insect squasher 09:01 heh 09:02 they also have the innate ability to charge things though 09:02 ais523: do you think ^ sounds good? seems intersting to me but I need to think about this 09:02 so far fiqhack has made basically no *new* content -- just fleshed out existing content 09:03 FIQ: it's not very fleshed out yet, but there's probably a good space for a role along those lines 09:04 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 09:04 -!- stenno is now known as Guest51979 09:09 -!- Guest51979 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:12 DIED: elenmirie (Rog-Orc-Fem-Cha), 2691 points, 2029 turns, killed by a werejackal on hdf-eu 09:13 FIQ: [backscroll] this artificer role sounds a lot like the proposed Tinker role by dtsund? 09:13 also, the proposal sort of calls for Arcs to be the tool-users 09:14 aosdict: Hm 09:14 Yeah it does 09:14 But I think it's essentially the same idea? 09:15 What if the weight of the body armor affected how large the to-hit penalty was for Monks? 09:15 So a leather jacket might be permissible, but a DSM/mithril wouldn't 09:16 er, not weight as much as... how to put it... "lightness" 09:16 I guess armor delay time is a good approximate metric for the idea 09:16 Allthough this ultimately isn't really worthwhile to consider until to-hit is fixed 09:18 ais523: btw, I noticed that a lot of the menu code is written 2 times 09:18 while looking at the search thing 09:18 only 2? 09:19 if you're talking about menu vs. objmenu, that's nontrivial to fix because even though the code looks the same it's acting on different types 09:19 well I found 2 copies of menu code 09:19 yes, I noticed 09:19 so different struct offsets, etc.; you couldn't compile it into the same binary 09:19 this is solvable with macros, or evil typecasting 09:19 DCSS has something like 10-12 different menu codes that all work differently 09:19 and no, I don't think evil typecasting would work 09:19 macros might but it'd be really hard to read 09:20 it does 09:20 I made it work for 2 functions 09:20 but it was mostly a test 09:20 to see the mergeability 09:20 ideally there should only be 1 struct 09:20 maybe the object stuff should be an extra (a la mextra)? but not sure if that is a good idea 09:21 one change you did 09:21 that I don't understand 09:21 at one point, in 2015 09:22 you changed win_menu to use double-pointers for menuitems and selected 09:22 why? 09:22 it was part of the scrollable merge, but I don't think that change in particular was needed? 09:23 i.e. *items -> **visitems, selected -> *visselected 09:23 er, not during scrollable merge 09:23 but shortly after (just a few hours later) to make submenu stuff 09:23 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has joined #hardfought 09:24 what I am considering here is 09:24 what is best 09:24 rewriting the entire thing from scratch 09:24 or fixing the existing code 09:26 -!- TheRuralJuror has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:26 one thing to be very aware of is menulist allocation 09:26 some fairly subtle changes are due to that 09:26 e.g. if the user does a midturn save with a menu up, how do we make sure that the menulist gets deallocated? 09:27 AFAIR I do that via copying the menulist to the stack and deallocating the original, so that it'll get deallocated by longjmp 09:27 I'm not sure if this explains your particular problem though 09:28 but this is done on both win_menu and win_objmenu 09:28 and one uses the "old" format 09:28 one doesn't 09:28 you only changed win_menu at that point 09:28 win_objmenu stayed the way it was, to this day 09:29 I did the change to win_objmenu too locally for now so I can make the codepaths more similar 09:29 -!- stennowork has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:29 to try to figure out what differences between them are justified 09:29 and what isn't 09:29 OK, I can't remember the details behind that 09:30 this made the structs (very nearly) identical 09:30 oh, wait, maybe I can 09:30 so I feel that they can be merged w/o too much work 09:30 is it related to collapsible menus? I bet it is 09:30 yes 09:30 in which case it's related to a feature that hasn't been written yet 09:30 i mentioned that I think 09:30 submenus 09:30 it is this commit 09:30 7cdd66e914 09:31 right 09:31 the idea is that the level of indirection lets us show a subset of menu items 09:31 whilst having all of them still in the return value, and be able to unsubset them 09:32 DIED: Webmant (Cav-Gno-Fem-Neu), 3328 points, 3745 turns, killed by a cadaver on hardfought 09:32 hmm 09:32 not sure if I understand how pointers help here 09:33 since they were already pointers in first place 09:33 (an array) 09:34 !tell LarienTelrunya: Since dnethack isn't looking at making 200-floor dungeons, and we were mostly concerned about the overflowing ints: https://github.com/Chris-plus-alphanumericgibberish/dNAO/pull/52/commits/707ba5400c014ac320363f75a1b8873ab7f5f552 09:34 Will do, NeroOneTrueKing! 09:34 hm 09:35 the reason I started the journey into this rabbit hole 09:35 was that I wanted to look into extending the window handling and make it more flexible 09:35 I feel like I wanted more things of it than what would be feasible w/o a major refactor 09:37 one thing I want 09:37 -!- Webmant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:37 is to be able to define arbitrary accelerators w/o having to assign them to lines 09:38 also I want to be able to choose when a window reports to msgbuffer 09:39 so I can create more complex menus, potentially updating the windows etc, without flooding it 09:39 DIED: tilia (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 1297 points, 2454 turns, killed by a bolt of cold on hardfought 09:39 -!- rikersan has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:40 and look into the feasibility to have code formatting in them 09:42 s/code/color, bold or similar/ 09:43 -!- puck1 has joined #hardfought 09:44 hi puck1 09:44 Hi, FIQ :D 09:44 Hi, all. I have such save in FIQHack on hardfought server: Satoshi VII Sam-hum-mal-law killed by a mumak 09:44 After death saves must be deleted 09:45 But this save remains in saved games 09:45 Did you exit the game in the middle of the dywypi stuff? 09:46 Maybe, I was very upset 09:46 How to delete this save now? 09:46 puck1: have you tried to load it? there's endgame recovery code in NH4 and thus presumably fiqhack 09:46 There is? 09:46 that will fix saves that didn't end the game properly 09:47 I've never seen it 09:47 If i load it it enables replay from T:1 09:47 FIQ: I wrote it a while back to fix a fairly large number of games that had gone wrong during the ending for some reason or another 09:47 I've only seen "this game ended while you were trying to play, opening in replay mode instead" 09:47 NeroOneTrueKing: huh, how does that work? does it simply change all xchars into ints? but what about schars and uchars? 09:47 you can trigger it by loading the game in replay mode too, letting you fix other people's games 09:47 LarienTelrunya: Message from NeroOneTrueKing at 2017-11-15 12:34 EST: Since dnethack isn't looking at making 200-floor dungeons, and we were mostly concerned about the overflowing ints: https://github.com/Chris-plus-alphanumericgibberish/dNAO/pull/52/commits/707ba5400c014ac320363f75a1b8873ab7f5f552 09:47 or whatever it says 09:47 I get now 09:47 > This game ended while you were loading it. Loading in replay mode instead. 09:47 but maybe it doesn't detect this case as broken 09:47 yeah 09:47 that 09:48 oh right, this is hardfought = dgl = not using the server code 09:48 so no wonder it won't autorecover 09:48 correct 09:48 is that bad? 09:48 oh 09:48 LarienTelrunya: amazingly, it works just fine. All things that were defined as xchars are then ints 09:48 hm 09:48 ais523: how do I make it run for offline clients? 09:48 I'm not sure offhand 09:48 I lost thread of discussion.. 09:48 do you know how I could find it 09:49 like, something to grep for in commit logs 09:49 r whatever 09:49 *or 09:49 Is there fix for my problem? 09:49 FIQ: FM_RECOVERQUIT is a good grep target 09:49 ok 09:50 What the code originally effectively does is it turns "xchar" -> "schar" and "boolean" -> "schar". This change makes it treat "xchar" -> "int", giving it more memory before it overflows 09:50 the basic problem with RECOVERQUIT is that if you force a game into that mode when it already quit properly, you'll end up with two log entries 09:50 because it actually undoes the last turn of the game and redoes it in the hope that the game ends correctly 09:51 NeroOneTrueKing: but dungeon.c and similar files are also using schar; what's the range of that? 09:51 meaning that you can't turn it on unless you have evidence that the save file is a leftover LS_DONE savefile, rather than having ended "in parallel" 09:51 maybe something like "if the timestamp on the savefile is more than 2 minutes old, set followmode to recoverquit rather than replay" 09:52 ais523: I could probably put this behind the PUBLIC_SERVER ifdef? 09:52 anyway, it'd be nice to know what causes games to not end properly 09:52 FIQ: yes, that might work 09:52 up to 127; which seems to be good enough for us right now 09:52 ais523: it is very easy to cause 09:52 the start of nh_play_game is what needs to change to change the default behaviour on loading a save with a Q at the end 09:52 you can 09:52 This would not be sufficient for your 1000-level dungeon, I know 09:52 * kill the process 09:53 * use ctrl+c and go out of the game 09:53 isn't dnethack just below the 127 limit? 09:53 both of these cause the game to end up with this state 09:53 total, but not in depth 09:53 you need to kill the process with fairly accurate timing, don't you? or is there a moment where you're waiting at a prompt, after the Q has been written, but before the file has been moved? 09:53 ais523: as long as you have the dywypi 09:53 but before you go through it 09:53 oh, the schars are used only for absolute depth? 09:53 you can exit the process (or ctrl+c) 09:53 to put the game in limbo 09:54 this is, IIRC, one of the release-blockers for 4.3 09:54 From my quick looksie at dungeon.c, I think so 09:54 so a fix to this that doesn't lead to games ever being double-logged would be really helpful 09:54 the current fix works for nitrohack-style servers but not for hardfought or local play 09:54 NeroOneTrueKing: well I'm not going to make a 1000-level dungeon, or at least I don't plan to have any level with an effective depth greater than 127; instead, the 100-level extra dungeon will go from dlvl100 (where you enter) back to 1 :D 09:54 -!- Spontiff has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:55 LarienTelrunya: so you get no benefit from terraforming the main dungeon? 09:55 ais523: what if the game checks for where the save is? 09:55 you might as well make the game ironman at that point 09:55 if it is in logs 09:55 you know the game is over 09:55 Of course, since that is much saner. :P 09:55 as in 09:55 FIQ: libnethack doesn't know where the save is, intentionally; you could maybe make the client do the check instead 09:55 do this when about to log 09:55 -!- raisse\splat has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:55 perhaps making it an extra argument to nh_play_game 09:56 ais523: oh, you do, that extra dungeon doesn't lead to ascension; you go up there, find a staircase, and then get auto-teleported back to the sanctum where the real ascension run will then begin, so you will benefit from terraforming you did earlier :D 09:56 even then, though, you have the problematic race condition where a game ends in two processes at once 09:56 put a file lock? 09:56 LarienTelrunya: at some point I'm going to have to /ignore you to stop my head hurting :-D 09:56 what if 09:56 when you die 09:56 :D 09:57 the game is put in "died" rather than "save" or "done" 09:57 and when dywypi is over 09:57 lock the file completely 09:57 FIQ: that's basically what the Q at the end of the file is 09:57 putting it into "died" rather than "save" 09:57 transfer it into done 09:57 the big problem we have is determining whether the log entry was written or not 09:57 hmm 09:57 really the game over code needs a rewrite to write the log entry and move the save simultaneously, between the death and dywypi 09:57 we could take the nitrohack approach and try to find the log entry :P 09:58 FIQ: doesn't nitrohack try to find the entry in the /high score table/? which is even worse, as it's a fuzzy match? 09:58 (iirc topten does something like this) 09:58 yeah 09:58 that is what I was taking a jab at 09:58 and it used to be broken 09:58 at least xlog has a game ID in it 09:58 [13dnh] porkman (Tou Inc Mal Neu) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:2483 09:58 because microseconds 09:59 I fixed that actually 09:59 oh, is that what usually broke it? the code was so obviously broken that I didn't put much effort into figuring out how specifically 09:59 iirc it was the first fh code that made it into mainline 09:59 yeah 10:00 the code "worked", even though it is obviously a really bad approach 10:00 so making it not care about microseconds 10:00 fied it 10:00 *fixed 10:00 NeroOneTrueKing: anyway kudos for that expansion commit, I'll test it for possible application in slex tomorrow, it would make my life much easier since I'd not have to go through the code replacing xchars with ints everywhere :D 10:01 The problem dnethack was running into was that an schar (max 127) was being used to ID levels; there could only be 127 levels total across the whole game. 10:01 So now that limit is out of the way, and it's a matter of time until it hits the next one. 10:02 I expect SLEX will find that limit pretty quickly XD 10:02 you expect slex to have 4294967395 levels? 10:02 NeroOneTrueKing: vanilla Slash'EM is very close to that limit, IIRC 10:02 err 4294967295 10:03 FIQ: no, that there will be some other constraint (like maximum depth, or number of floors in a dungeon, etc) that will be hit 10:03 but if it was an schar, then turning xchars into ints doesn't really fix that problem, or am I mistaken? because then an schar is still an schar and thus limited to 127, no? 10:03 yes 10:04 ... now I'm confused 10:04 Sorry, it was coded as an "xchar" 10:04 Which is really an "schar" in disguise 10:04 ah, you mean it was an xchar but an xchar is the same as an schar without your fix, and an int with the fix, now I understand (hopefully) :D 10:04 Yeah! 10:05 ais523: not sure if this recovery does the right thing 10:05 it worked, but 10:06 the game solved this by replaying *the entire game* up to the death 10:07 FIQ: file_done is probably the culprit there 10:07 you should set it to false in recoverquit mode 10:09 once it inevitably desynced (I tested this on a game by NeroOneTrueKing in Sanctum) 10:09 just testing something, could you ping me? 10:09 it does quit properly at least 10:09 ais523: hi 10:09 OK, that works 10:09 sorry, still trying to get to grips with my new DE 10:14 !tell K2 pushed fies 10:14 Will do, FIQ! 10:14 *fixes 10:15 NeroOneTrueKing: why is there 2 schar types? 10:16 FIQ: schar range is -128..127, xchar range is 0..127 10:16 i.e. xchar means "small and positive" 10:16 ah 10:16 but it has to be signed for some bizarre technical reason I can't remember 10:16 * small and nonnegative 10:17 /* * type xchar: small integers in the range 0 - 127, usually coordinates * although they are nonnegative they must not be declared unsigned * since otherwise comparisons with signed quantities are done incorrectly */ 10:17 DIED: dgoddard (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Cha), 1803 points, 2500 turns, killed by a dwarf on hardfought 10:17 ...I wonder if "#define schar int" would work to change the rest 10:17 that sounds like a really bad idea 10:18 like 10:18 I agree, it does :) 10:18 *bad* 10:18 Actually, it sounds like a really good idea for an IOCCC entry. 10:18 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 10:19 so it'd fit just at home in slex then 10:19 -!- stenno is now known as Guest54823 10:19 who said EPIs has to be restricted to end users 10:19 well, slex should still be playable without constant crashes 10:19 and most importantly, I don't want broken savegames or stuff like that :D 10:21 LarienTelrunya: if slex is designed specifically for you 10:21 and you don't mind people not liking it 10:21 jonadab: "schar" isn't defined in C 10:21 why do you keep pestering people to play it? 10:21 it's a NetHack-specific definition 10:21 FIQ: play slex! *bundlebundlebundle* just kidding; there are people who like it, in a weird, twisted sort of way :D 10:24 you are avoiding my question 10:24 well, I guess because I like to watch others play it? 10:24 ais523: I just noticed that there is a compile-time option to use ints instead of most data types. Doh. That would do the trick, wouldn't it? 10:25 there is a compile option to changing *char into int? 10:25 err ?char 10:26 NeroOneTrueKing: OK, my head is physically hurting at this point; I hope it's unrelated to this conversation 10:26 but I need to get food anyway 10:26 so bye for now, everyone 10:26 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: quit] 10:26 #ifdef WIDENED_PROTOTYPES 10:26 in global.h 10:27 which may do the trick, but I'm not sure 10:27 I have not tested at all; I just saw it right now 10:29 ugh I don't know at this point 10:29 NeroOneTrueKing: wouldn't your expansion commit already make it so that "# define XCHAR_P xchar" is effectively the same as "# define XCHAR_P int"? 10:30 probably! However, I fear that there are places in the code that don't use these defined types and would need to be hunted down :/ 10:30 also I'm wondering, if XCHAR_P is "int", then the definition of "STATIC_DCL int level_range(XCHAR_P,int,int,int,struct proto_dungeon *,int *);" would have the first variable be an int, but the actual function "level_range(dgn, base, rand, chain, pd, adjusted_base)" still says "xchar dgn;" 10:31 my gut feeling says that your expansion commit is the correct way to handle things, since it catches both the actual variable definitions and the prototypes ;) 10:31 -!- aoei has joined #hardfought 10:37 DIED: dgoddard (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Cha), 4981 points, 3275 turns, killed by a watch captain on hardfought 10:41 DIED: dgoddard (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Cha), 283 points, 600 turns, killed by a hobbit on hardfought 10:45 -!- Guest54823 has quit [Changing host] 10:45 -!- Guest54823 has joined #hardfought 10:46 -!- Guest54823 is now known as stenno 10:46 -!- oh6 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:49 DIED: tilia (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 975 points, 2233 turns, killed by a rabid rat on hardfought 10:50 -!- dave____ has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:54 -!- mcnick has joined #hardfought 10:54 DIED: dgoddard (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Cha), 2170 points, 2007 turns, killed by a killer bee on hardfought 10:55 -!- hpardis has joined #hardfought 11:10 DIED: eitbo (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 6912 points, 4773 turns, killed by a quasit on hardfought 11:13 #define xchar long double 11:13 What could go wrong? 11:16 DIED: eitbo (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 675 points, 734 turns, killed by a gnome on hardfought 11:19 -!- puck1 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0-dev] 11:20 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 11:20 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 11:23 -!- puck1 has joined #hardfought 11:26 [06nh4] Nobbs (Val Hum Fem Law), 65737 points, T:11256, killed by an energy vortex 11:27 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought 11:34 -!- mcnick has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:35 -!- Webmant has joined #hardfought 11:43 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought 11:44 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:47 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 11:47 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 11:48 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 11:48 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v oh6] by ChanServ 11:50 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:53 [12slex] kenanbit (Mar Inc Fem Law), 1277 points, T:1205, killed by a monster (conscious fungus) 11:58 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 11:58 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 12:07 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has joined #hardfought 12:07 [13dnh] porkman (Tou Inc Mal Neu), 16334 points, T:2794, killed by a blast of fire 12:07 -!- Webmant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:12 DIED: dgoddard (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Cha), 859 points, 898 turns, killed by a gnome on hardfought 12:13 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:16 -!- spontiff has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:16 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 12:24 man after work there's only a very small time window 12:24 and in that time window i have to decide what to actually do 12:26 [06nh4] Nobbs (Val Hum Fem Law), 26488 points, T:1215, killed by a gnome 12:29 [06nh4] Nobbs (Val Hum Fem Law), 15746 points, T:579, quit 12:29 -!- aeoi has joined #hardfought 12:29 -!- aeoi is now known as aoei\splat 12:31 -!- rikersan has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:32 -!- aoei has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:36 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:37 DIED: dgoddard (Wiz-Hum-Mal-Cha), 5411 points, 5074 turns, killed by a kitten on hardfought 12:42 DIED: Mandevil (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 1306 points, 2682 turns, killed by a giant beetle on hdf-eu 12:42 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 12:42 DIED: tilia (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 63 points, 909 turns, killed by a fox, while fainted from lack of food on hardfought 12:43 ASCENDED: khamul (Sam-Hum-Mal-Law), 4897345 points, 62066 turns, ascended on hdf-eu https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/k/khamul/dn36/dumplog/1510232698.dn36.txt 12:44 TROPHY: khamul now holds the Highest Scored Samurai 12:44 TROPHY: khamul just earned the Birdie (with bells on!) and Birdie 12:44 birdie wbo _and_ the birdie :o 12:44 (grats) 12:49 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:53 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought 13:00 DIED: tilia (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 1838 points, 4952 turns, killed by a hill orc on hardfought 13:03 -!- Haudegen has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:06 DIED: tilia (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 355 points, 1392 turns, eaten by a Grue on hardfought 13:09 DIED: khamul (Bar-Hum-Mal-Cha), 542 points, 1186 turns, killed by a giant bat on hdf-eu 13:09 -!- Porkmantwo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:09 -!- Porkmantwo has joined #hardfought 13:15 DIED: knaveightt (Ran-Elf-Mal-Cha), 3744 points, 3714 turns, killed by a watch captain on hardfought 13:17 DIED: tilia (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 619 points, 1170 turns, killed by an acidic corpse on hardfought 13:19 ASCENDED: firemonkey (Bar-Orc-Mal-Cha), 1517734 points, 27572 turns, ascended on hardfought https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/f/firemonkey/dn36/dumplog/1510602419.dn36.txt 13:21 TROPHY: firemonkey just earned the Hat Trick 13:26 !tell K2 more fixes 13:26 Will do, FIQ! 13:27 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27 DIED: eitbo (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 958 points, 1517 turns, killed by a killer bee, while praying on hardfought 13:31 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has joined #hardfought 13:33 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 13:33 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 13:33 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has quit [Client Quit] 13:46 -!- rikersan has joined #hardfought 13:49 -!- rikersan has quit [Client Quit] 13:50 DIED: knaveightt (Rog-Hum-Mal-Cha), 338 points, 964 turns, killed by a gas spore's explosion on hardfought 13:51 FIQhack updated 13:51 K2: Message from FIQ at 2017-11-15 13:14 EST: pushed fies 13:51 K2: Message from FIQ at 2017-11-15 16:26 EST: more fixes 13:52 hDna 13:54 -!- StinkyGreene has joined #hardfought 13:59 [13dnh] porkman (Tou Inc Mal Neu), 7368 points, T:1823, killed by a crow 14:02 rip 14:07 DIED: bleeko (Kni-Hum-Mal-Law), 13201 points, 6579 turns, burned by molten lava on hardfought 14:10 !tell LarienTelrunya hunger rebalance (as in, keeping nutrition relevant past Sokoban) is also something I think addresses your concerns with "the hero can just wait around before Gehennom and farm whatever" 14:10 Will do, aosdict! 14:10 !tell K2 fixed major bug 14:10 Will do, FIQ! 14:12 !tell LarienTelrunya nasty trap request: inventory letters don't work to select objects in object menus, you can still use them to deselect objects though and select objects by things like object classes and . and , 14:12 Will do, ais523! 14:12 lol 14:13 ais523: currently, a work around is @(what you want to select)@ 14:13 :P 14:16 -!- katung has joined #hardfought 14:18 -!- puck1 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.0-dev] 14:25 -!- mcnick has joined #hardfought 14:27 -!- Porkmantwo has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:28 -!- Graylight has joined #hardfought 14:29 If I get the Grue on the first level of the Gnomish Mines, I'm just fucked right? 14:29 No mines for me. 14:32 you need a light source 14:35 ok cool thanks 14:35 -!- Luxidream has joined #hardfought 14:37 wumpuses and grues o.o 14:42 #fiqhack and #nhfourk closing? o.O 14:42 yes 14:42 why? 14:43 Not closing, _merging_. 14:43 no reason to keep them seperate when the majority of the discussion benefited from being shared 14:43 merged into #nethack4 14:43 -!- spontiff has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:43 right, NH4 derivatives often have common issues 14:43 so keeping all the discussion together makes sense 14:44 several FIQHack bug reports turn out to originate in NH4, for example 14:44 and talk about design space makes more sense shared 14:45 (particularly between #nhfourk and #nethack4 given 4k's design philosophy) 14:46 -!- Chris_ANG has joined #hardfought 14:48 do you think shpingrlde should merge #fiddlehack in as well? 14:50 DIED: tilia (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 2295 points, 4877 turns, killed by a dwarf on hardfought 14:53 -!- Graylight has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:57 is it NH4-based? I'm happy for people to discuss any NH4 derivative tehre 14:57 *there 14:57 -!- tacco\unfoog has joined #hardfought 14:58 yeah, I think it's based off of FIQhack actually 14:58 so somewhere in the third fork generation :P 14:58 Luxidream: fourth 14:59 NH4 was based mostly on two variants, and hardly has anything from vanilla directly 14:59 actually I'm not sure if it has anything directly from vanilla, everything went via some variant or other 14:59 (mostly NitroHack and AceHack, but also some things from numerous other variants) 15:02 [07nd] Rx (Hea Gno Mal Neu), 10423 points, T:9272, killed by a cave spider, while frozen by a monster's gaze 15:10 I think NH4 has one bugfix that was cherry-picked from the leak. 15:10 hi 15:10 Hello K2, Welcome to #hardfought 15:10 K2: Message from FIQ at 2017-11-15 17:10 EST: fixed major bug 15:11 Because I'd already done the fix for 4.3-maint, and then the bug got reported against NH4 and folks wanted it fixed... 15:11 Err, *ported the fix 15:11 FIQhack updated 15:21 jonadab: and the 3.6.1 vorpal blade bugfix, right/ 15:21 ? 15:30 -!- mcnick has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:37 -!- aoei\splat has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:43 DIED: ab5ni (Bar-Orc-Mal-Cha), 8112 points, 6353 turns, killed by a minotaur on hardfought 15:55 -!- stenno has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:58 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has joined #hardfought 16:01 "What do you want to wear? [best or ?*]" 16:17 -!- mcnick has joined #hardfought 16:18 -!- Haudegen has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:18 DIED: zaga (Val-Hum-Fem-Neu), 501 points, 739 turns, killed by a little dog on hardfought 16:29 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 16:29 -!- stenno is now known as Guest90863 16:37 ZAPM: jonathanhanes the Q/A Tester Killed by a cylon centurion's laser pistol in the space base at depth 4. [5480 points] 16:46 -!- Guest90863 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:50 -!- oh6 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:57 aosdict: Not sure about that one. 16:57 What was the bug? 16:57 throwing it! 16:58 although I IIRC haven't fixed that one in NH4 yet 16:58 because it's such an awesome bug 16:58 Oh, right, that. 16:58 How did I forget about that one? 16:59 has that been documented anywhere but IRC? 16:59 because more people deserve to know what it was 17:05 DIED: Grasshopper (Ran-Elf-Mal-Cha), 252536 points, 44348 turns, drowned in a moat by a giant eel on hdf-au 17:07 Dunno. The Wiki would be an obvious place to document it. 17:22 -!- mcnick has quit [*.net *.split] 17:22 -!- hpardis has quit [*.net *.split] 17:28 -!- mcnick has joined #hardfought 17:31 DIED: bleeko (Kni-Hum-Mal-Law), 3430 points, 4168 turns, killed by a rabid rat, while sleeping on hardfought 17:35 DIED: zaga (Val-Hum-Fem-Neu), 7394 points, 5356 turns, killed by a jaguar, while reading a book on hardfought 17:44 -!- oh6 has joined #hardfought 17:44 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v oh6] by ChanServ 17:46 -!- noims has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:04 -!- tacco\unfoog has quit [] 18:10 -!- mcnick has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:12 -!- mcnick has joined #hardfought 18:18 -!- hpardis has joined #hardfought 18:30 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 18:32 -!- oh6 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:43 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 18:43 "What do you want to eat? [cdr or ?*]" yay lisp! 18:43 -!- stenno is now known as Guest66337 18:44 Menchie: so you eat everything but the head? 18:44 I guess 18:44 don't want to get prions from the brains 18:47 ASCENDED: larry (Arc-Dwa-Mal-Law), 2195418 points, 48379 turns, ascended on hardfought https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/l/larry/dn36/dumplog/1509862762.dn36.txt 18:47 -!- Guest66337 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:48 TROPHY: larry now holds the Highest Scored Archeologist 18:48 TROPHY: larry just earned the Dilithium Star 18:49 -!- greqrg has joined #hardfought 18:53 * aosdict eats cAR 19:15 DIED: jmcunx (Wiz-Hum-Fem-Cha), 870 points, 1488 turns, eaten by a Grue on hardfought 19:26 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 19:30 DIED: eitbo (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 487 points, 1003 turns, killed by a gnome king on hardfought 19:33 DIED: bleeko (Kni-Hum-Mal-Law), 2167 points, 3653 turns, killed by a killer bee on hardfought 19:33 aosdict: grats on another ascension btw 19:33 i have a great chance of ascending this game 19:34 lotta wishes 19:34 genocided L 19:36 winny: thanks! and I have a promising tourist in the quest 19:36 just reached gehennom 19:36 lacking MR, but I'll get it from the Card 19:36 or whatever 19:36 but i have a weird armor build 19:36 here lemme show u 19:36 -!- greqrg has quit [Quit: Disconnected] 19:37 https://ptpb.pw/aZrA.png 19:37 i forgot to fireproof the cloak, but the boots and gauntlets are fooproofed 19:38 a little uncomfortable with shield of reflection being my reflection source 19:38 but, i think i could probably ascend without twoweaponing 19:39 DIED: eitbo (Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha), 808 points, 886 turns, killed by a dwarf on hardfought 19:40 I'd swap out the ESP for life saving if you find it, otherwise it looks pretty good 19:40 you think it'll be fine to have reflection on the shield instead of amulet? 19:40 im also invisible, hence i didn't bother for displacement 19:43 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 19:43 DIED: ab5ni (Bar-Orc-Mal-Cha), 3495 points, 5455 turns, killed by a mumak on hardfought 19:43 -!- stenno is now known as Guest67114 19:47 -!- Guest67114 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:54 DIED: tilia (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 8459 points, 10842 turns, killed by a giant beetle on hardfought 20:05 -!- fatty_ has joined #hardfought 20:08 -!- hpardis has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 20:10 DIED: fatty (Wiz-Orc-Fem-Cha), 0 points, 34 turns, killed by kicking something weird on hardfought 20:10 ASCENDED: Luxidream (Pri-Elf-Fem-Cha), 2268276 points, 48166 turns, ascended on hardfought https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/dn36/dumplog/1510763982.dn36.txt 20:11 DIED: jimbentler (Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1017 points, 3911 turns, killed by a giant ant on hardfought 20:12 DIED: fatty (Wiz-Orc-Mal-Cha), 28 points, 23 turns, killed by a kobold zombie on hardfought 20:14 DIED: fatty (Wiz-Orc-Mal-Cha), 25 points, 24 turns, killed by a mildly contaminated potion on hardfought 20:16 DIED: fatty (Wiz-Orc-Mal-Cha), 0 points, 13 turns, killed by the wrath of Anhur on hardfought 20:45 [12slex] kenanbit (Ele Tro Mal Law) averted death, on T:1191 20:46 [12slex] kenanbit (Ele Tro Mal Law), 1211 points, T:1223, killed by a monster (gnome lord) 20:52 [12slex] kenanbit (Pro Mai Fem Neu), 0 points, T:9, killed by a monster (eastern rabbit) 20:56 -!- Luxidream has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:04 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 21:04 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ 21:08 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:09 -!- firemonkey\splat has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:13 -!- Grassy is now known as Grasshopper 21:17 -!- mcnick has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:18 -!- mcnick has joined #hardfought 21:18 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: sorry for my connection] 21:25 fatty_, what wierd thing did you kick this time? 21:27 DIED: Grasshopper (Ran-Elf-Fem-Cha), 333 points, 866 turns, killed by a coyote on hdf-au 21:27 DIED: fatty (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 14001 points, 6993 turns, killed by an ape, while paralyzed by a monster on hardfought 21:39 -!- mcnick has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:43 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 21:43 -!- stenno is now known as Guest92635 21:48 -!- Guest92635 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:48 CHALLENGE ACCEPTED! madgeek accepted the Pool challenge. 21:49 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 21:49 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 21:58 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:59 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 21:59 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 22:03 [12slex] kenanbit (Dru Unm Mal Neu), 862 points, T:801, killed by a wand of striking 22:07 DIED: Raisse (Arc-Dwa-Fem-Law), 1027 points, 3794 turns, killed by a rothe on hdf-eu 22:33 DIED: Raisse (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 2094 points, 4586 turns, killed by a wolf, while praying on hdf-eu 22:34 DIED: buffy (Cav-Dwa-Fem-Law), 1314 points, 3996 turns, killed by a rothe, while fainted from lack of food on altorg 22:46 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 22:48 DIED: Raisse (Arc-Dwa-Fem-Law), 1584 points, 1649 turns, killed by a water moccasin on hdf-eu 22:49 . 22:49 LarienTelrunya: Message from aosdict at 2017-11-15 17:10 EST: hunger rebalance (as in, keeping nutrition relevant past Sokoban) is also something I think addresses your concerns with "the hero can just wait around before Gehennom and farm whatever" 22:49 LarienTelrunya: Message from ais523 at 2017-11-15 17:12 EST: nasty trap request: inventory letters don't work to select objects in object menus, you can still use them to deselect objects though and select objects by things like object classes and . and , 22:51 !tell aosdict problem with the hunger system (at least as I see it) is that usually the RNG decides how much food you find; IIRC in the original Rogue it could happen that the entire dungeon generated too little total food to be able to win, making the game unwinnable since you can't pray for food in Rogue! 22:51 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 22:52 !tell ais523 whoa, that would be quite the nasty trap ;) I'd have to figure out where the function for item selection is if I want to implement that 22:53 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 23:02 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 23:03 -!- stenno is now known as Guest11600 23:06 -!- mcnick has joined #hardfought 23:07 DIED: Raisse (Val-Dwa-Fem-Law), 526 points, 1425 turns, killed by an iguana, while frozen by a monster's gaze on hdf-eu 23:13 -!- deadnoob has joined #hardfought 23:14 -!- NeroOneTrueKing has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:16 DIED: Raisse (Cav-Dwa-Fem-Law), 876 points, 1692 turns, killed by a giant bat, while sleeping on hdf-eu 23:16 aosdict: guard farming was what made the 14-conduct dynahack convict ascension possible 23:16 -!- deadnoob has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:24 DIED: Raisse (Arc-Dwa-Fem-Law), 1827 points, 930 turns, killed by a giant rat on hdf-eu 23:26 !tell NeroOneTrueKing testing your xchar-to-int change with regard to expanding the dungeon, seems to be working alright :) 23:26 Will do, LarienTelrunya! 23:45 DIED: Raisse (Cav-Dwa-Fem-Law), 51 points, 130 turns, killed by a fox on hdf-eu 23:46 DIED: Raisse (Cav-Dwa-Fem-Law), 69 points, 209 turns, killed by a boulder on hdf-eu 23:49 DIED: Raisse (Cav-Dwa-Fem-Law), 525 points, 1150 turns, killed by the ghost of Raisse, while fainted from lack of food on hdf-eu 23:55 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:56 -!- Grassy has joined #hardfought 23:56 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grassy] by ChanServ