00:10 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:10 -!- khoR has joined #hardfought 00:18 Hello folks, don't mind me. Just watching from my corner. 00:43 ok 00:43 !who 00:43 bug_sniper: No current players 00:47 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: sorry for my connection] 01:46 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 01:49 [08un] GOR (Kni Hum Mal Law), 227 points, T:370, killed by a newt 01:54 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:54 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 01:58 &time 01:58 The time is 01:58:35(PDT) on Tuesday, October 31, 2017 01:58 The time remaining until the 2017 Tournament begins is '00-00-00:22-01-25' 02:17 khoR: how's BugHack 02:17 any new bugs? 02:35 -!- FIQ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:37 -!- FIQ has joined #hardfought 02:37 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v FIQ] by ChanServ 02:49 -!- Porkmantwo has joined #hardfought 02:52 -!- Porkman has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:53 -!- Tangles has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:57 [07nd] Wolfechu (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 6223 points, T:4609, killed by a forest centaur 02:57 FIQ: haven't really played much since last ascension. 02:59 huh 02:59 I went down to a level but didnt appear in the upstais 02:59 upstairs 02:59 theres gold in them. i wonder if that's why. 03:03 -!- Tangles has joined #hardfought 03:03 -!- mode/#hardfought [+o Tangles] by ChanServ 03:04 khoR: that's just random 03:04 if you have a pet it happens 03:04 every now and thne 03:05 -!- Tangles_ has joined #hardfought 03:08 -!- Tangles has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:09 -!- Tangles_ is now known as Tangles 03:10 Oh, I see. 03:11 [07nd] elenmirie (Mon Hum Fem Neu) entered Gehennom, on T:14430 03:14 [07nd] Raisse (Arc Dwa Fem Law) eschewed atheism, by dropping a wand called zap on an altar, on T:4283 03:16 it was an uncursed wand called zap 03:17 heh 03:17 argh, an egg in the deli hatched 03:17 good to know :) 03:17 a snake came out and killed me 03:17 less good :( 03:17 but !setmintc doesn't work for things like breaking conducts 03:17 as it just so happens, I don't have anything to do tomorrow 03:18 as kerio would put it, how convenient! 03:20 I have something to do. Play games all day. \o/ 03:20 FIQ, how do you join factions on the discord? 03:20 like, say I wan't to join the lost labyrinth faction? 03:23 I have a busy day today but a quiet day tomorrow 03:23 except that I go swimming in the mornign so I can start a game on the dot but won't have more than half an hour to play before I have to leave 03:23 (and come back ~2 hrs later and see that someone has already ascended) 03:25 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 03:25 We have a discord? 03:34 [07nd] elenmirie (Mon Hum Fem Neu), 112528 points, T:15070, killed by a winged gargoyle 03:35 [114k] Arnibald (arnibald) (Tou Hum Mal Neu) reached the bottom of the Mines, on T:19168 03:36 bug_sniper: you need an invite 03:36 also I fail to see how discord factors in 03:36 bug_sniper: oh, you mean *discord* faction? then why are you asking me here lol 03:37 bug_sniper: ask MTF, he's an admin and can do it 03:37 (or any other admin, in #townhall or something) 03:44 I see 03:51 -!- Haudegen has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:07 [07nd] Raisse (Arc Dwa Fem Law) had Demonbane bestowed upon her by Quetzalcoatl, on T:2741 04:08 [07nd] Raisse (Arc Dwa Fem Law) had Fire Brand bestowed upon her by Quetzalcoatl, on T:3355 04:08 hm, somewhat better 04:13 lol, floating eye death-drops a towel 04:13 (and leaves a corpse) 04:15 hi 04:15 Hello K2, Welcome to #hardfought 04:29 hi k2 04:30 o/ 04:30 * Tangles is posting to rgrn 04:30 for the first time in... maybe 15 years. Looks like people still read it. 04:32 heh 04:32 i am cleaning up dn36 and zapm on hdf main 04:32 Heh 04:32 archiving stuff 04:40 hi K2! power all sorted I hope? 04:41 yes thank 04:43 -!- Porkmantwo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:43 great. I was surprised that you had trouble *after* the storm had blown through! 04:43 -!- Porkmantwo has joined #hardfought 04:43 hope all is okay otherwise 04:45 yes it is. i have a lot more tree cutting to do but no damage thankfully 04:45 one of my co workers car was totalled (tree fell on it, it was brand new) 04:46 elenmirie: but yeah the power line folks were repairing lines and fried something in the process several hours after the storm went through 04:46 i dont know all the details 04:47 but for the future i want to setup some type of redunancy, esp now that the hdf-eu will be a reality 04:49 Floating Eye Talk, vol. 3913: https://bilious.alt.org/rgrn/?135219,135220,135223,135224 04:51 Tangles: How do you even comment in usenet anyway? 04:51 ah, I can use google groups 04:55 &time 04:55 The time is 04:55:22(PDT) on Tuesday, October 31, 2017 04:55 The time remaining until the 2017 Tournament begins is '00-00-00:19-04-38' 04:57 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:16 K2: nothing like an incident just before the tournament to focus the mind on resilience! :D... 05:17 wouldn't be a devnull tribute without glitches 05:17 indeed! 05:17 am I the only one who found the duration format for devnull dumb 05:18 who uses yy-mm-dd:hh-nn-ss 05:18 Good luck everyone on the tournament. :D 05:31 &time 05:31 The time is 05:31:40(PDT) on Tuesday, October 31, 2017 05:31 The time remaining until the 2017 Tournament begins is '00-00-00:18-28-19' 05:32 hmm, if I were going to make an attempt at the "first" trophies (which I will not) I'd be unhappy with that start time 05:33 I'd either be in bed, or unwisely staying up before a busy day tomorrow and be half asleep anyway 05:35 it's perfectly convenient for me: 7am! 05:35 I usually get up around 6:30 05:35 FIQ: No you are not the only one. But it would not be devnull without it :) 05:35 elenmirie: yes indeed! 05:36 i will be up before the tourney starts 05:36 so that means about 2:30am for me 05:36 The tournament starts at 6pm for me, so that's convenient as long as I can get away from work in time :) 05:38 6am for me! 05:38 and we have trick or treating tonight 05:38 hah 05:38 so what time does it start? 05:38 what TZ 05:38 i may try to get to bed early and set alarm so i can get *some* sleep 05:38 winny: midnight PST (west coast) 05:38 or 7am UTC 05:39 wait, is it 7 for me? or 6. I'm confused. 05:39 well, what timezone are you in 05:39 7am UTC! that would be 6 for me and 5 for elenmirie 05:39 er, now I'm confused too 05:39 we just changed the clocks 05:39 8 for me 05:39 so I'm even more confused 05:39 7 UTC is 7 for elenmirie and 8 for me like for stenno 05:39 i think raisse and i are in the same timezone? 05:39 yeah 05:39 yes 05:39 GMT = UTC 05:40 lol 05:40 CET = UTC+1 05:40 all you need to know is this: 05:40 &time 05:40 The time is 05:40:17(PDT) on Tuesday, October 31, 2017 05:40 The time remaining until the 2017 Tournament begins is '00-00-00:18-19-42' 05:40 yes, and since we just fell back, we're in sync with UTC now 05:40 adjust accordingly 05:40 [07nd] firemonkey (Cav Gno Fem Neu), 261 points, T:330, killed by a small mimic 05:40 8 is terribly *in*convenient for me, I'll just be getting on the bike to the pool 05:41 i have to ask my boss if i can come a bit later and then i can try a single run 05:41 the 1st is my wedding anniversary. so other than being up for tourney start, i wont be around for much of the first day 05:41 great timing! lol 05:41 'hi honey... no sorry, cant go out to dinner for our anniversary. what? no, sweetie, its nethack. you understand' 05:41 *slap* 05:42 that would not be recommended 05:42 elenmirie: i know right? lol 05:42 so which versions of nethack are allowed in the tournament 05:42 and can i play slashem for example 05:42 er, nethack4 05:42 one sec winny 05:42 i suggest putting these deets on the page 05:42 no, it's not junethack, we only have 3.6.0 with additional challenges 05:43 its devnull version 05:43 https://www.hardfought.org/devnull/about.html 05:43 but updated to 3.6.0 instead of 3.4.3 05:43 oh hey i see it 05:43 where are the time start and ends jw 05:44 nice clan name "Fellowship of the =" 05:44 starts midnight on nov 1st, ends midnight dec 1st (PST) 05:44 join a clan winny 05:44 how do i join 05:44 K2: put that on the webpage :D 05:44 Fellowship of the = could use another member 05:44 oh hey Mandevil - we forgot to state the actual start/end times on the scoreboard page 05:45 cool I'll join in aosdict, how do i join anyway 05:45 on https://www.hardfought.org/devnull/ it has the countdown 05:45 you have to get an invite 05:45 not sure if I can do that or HTTPS has to 05:45 i think my username is winny 05:45 once you're registered a clan admin can invite you to a clan 05:45 yeah, winny is me 05:46 on hf.org nethack 05:46 right the countdown, but not actual start/end dates 05:46 K2: ? 05:46 K2: There's a start date. 05:46 what about end date? 05:46 right 05:46 :p 05:46 K2: Which will change into end date once the tournament starts. 05:46 aaahhh 05:46 YANI: anyone in a clan can invite someone else into a clan 05:46 ok cool 05:46 rather than waiting for the clan leader 05:46 oh so it'll be on the page when it starts? 05:46 yep 05:46 -!- APic has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:47 kk. good enough i suppose, thx 05:47 this is how devnull did it 05:47 -!- APic has joined #hardfought 05:47 to play ZPAM, you must unlock the challenge within /dev/null/nethack 05:47 first time you wish 05:48 zapm is great btw 05:48 really fun 05:48 kinda weird in a fun way 05:48 it will present the challenge, but you cant wish again til you beat zapm 05:48 so how do i unlock zapm 05:48 so who is in fellowship of the =? invite me :D 05:49 HTTPS is the clan leader 05:49 but unfortunately, I seem to be online much more consistently than HTTPS... 05:49 you should ask https to make you co-admin 05:49 I did that with elenmirie 05:49 oh, that's the username, i was wondering why u were talking about a protocol scheme 05:50 i'll write https memoserv mail 05:50 hence my idea to allow anyone to invite into a clan (bhaak: think this would work for junethack too?) 05:50 ok, sent mail 05:51 aosdict: I think the clan leader should be able to designate people who can invite. 05:51 aosdict: that sounds like something that would work for some clans but not necessarily all 05:51 so the nethack-3.6.0, is that vanilla, or is there a list of patches somewhere? 05:51 yes, what Tangles 05:51 said 05:51 winny: it's vanilla with the special devnull challenges added on 05:52 winny: It's as vanilla as we could make it from a gameplay perspective (plus the challenges) 05:52 ok, so for example the lava time bug is present 05:52 no 05:52 it's 3.6.0 05:52 winny: as firemonkey said, you unlock zapm by making a wish 05:52 oh they fixed it? nice 05:52 but it's *unpatched* 3.6.0 05:52 lava time bug was 3.4 only 05:52 besides crash fixes 05:52 raisse: oh i see, sorry, i wasn't paying attention (slaps self) 05:52 so all 3.6.0 bugs 05:52 besides crashes 05:52 thanks for the clarification 05:52 are still in 05:52 no more astral call 05:52 but trivialcredit 05:53 cloning is there 05:53 *trivial credit cloning 05:53 winny: but we did add some commits from the 3.6.1dev to prevent crashing, and add things outside the game itself like dumplogs. 05:53 i should set up a good 3.6.0 config for tomorrow 05:53 long worms will probably not crash it 05:53 "probably" 05:53 one other question - will zapm be playable once the tournament has ended 05:54 Tangles: will it 05:54 winny: I believe k2's plan is to remove the challenge gate from zapm afterwards and leave it as a standalone game. 05:54 ah 05:55 Tangles: will there be cross-server watching 05:55 when hdf-eu becomes a real hdf server 05:55 Tangles: cool, that sounds great. I really enjoy zapm :D 05:55 and bones sharing, score sharing, etc 05:55 FIQ: eventually, maybe. 05:55 xlog, etc, etc 06:10 yeah zapm will be available after the tourney (as an easter egg) 06:10 gotta find it :P 06:23 -!- tacco| has joined #hardfought 06:32 -!- StinkyGr1ene has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:33 um 06:33 this doesn't look quite right... 06:34 am I misreading this http://sprunge.us/cbQh 06:34 or will it return 1 for 4d1 ? 06:35 assuming rn2(1) = 0 always, shouldn't it return 4? 06:36 why? 06:37 so 06:37 oh wait you're right 06:37 I misread, sorry 06:37 isn't d1 always 1? 06:37 this is rn2 06:37 so 4d1 is always 4? 06:37 yeah but the function looks a bit unintuitive 06:37 because it starts by setting tmp to the amount of dices (4 here) 06:37 it *is* unintuitive 06:38 oh you're rolling dice that can come up 0 or 1 06:38 and rn2(1) always returns 0, so it ends up 4 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 06:38 which does do the right thing, but... 06:38 that's a d2 for me 06:38 remove that line, change the line to tmp += rn2(x) + 1 06:38 it's not exactly intuitive 06:38 or tmp += rnd(x) 06:38 aosdict: or rnd(x) 06:38 but I wonder if this is here for a reason 06:38 optimization? 06:38 80's optimization? 06:38 (rnd(x) -> rn2(x) + 1) 06:39 raisse: no, but rather 06:39 you roll a one-sided die. It comes up 0. 06:39 it initializes the counter to the dice amount, then adds a random number between 0 and (dice size-1) 06:40 (num of dices) times 06:40 i.e. 4+0+0+0+0 as mentioned 06:40 aka "you roll a marble and call the result 0" :P 06:40 :P 06:40 * raisse 's head spins 06:40 aosdict: well at least it did the right thing 06:40 it would be a bit embarrassing for whoever made that function originally 06:40 if it was wrong 06:41 FIQ: currently am changing my repository structure from "branch explosion" to "most features on one branch, anyone who wants a single one can cherry-pick" 06:41 the FIQhack Wizard Patch is not porting over well :) 06:42 Heh 06:42 It depends on what would be the most convenient for others 06:43 So far, most of the features are small enough to be easily one commit, so it's easy to cherrypick. 06:44 (The other reason for the repo structure change is that I was working off not a 3.6.0-release base, but instead some intermediate 3.6.1 version that had no actual commit history with nethack 06:44 So, I threw up my hands and just decided to work off 3.6.1-dev directly 06:45 This will probably cause merge conflict fun for me in the future :) 06:46 If you think merge conflicts are fun when you're based on 3.6, try being based on NH4, and merging stuff like globals purge, uim rewrite, channelization. 06:46 aosdict: the map xy for NH3 is incorrect I think in your blessed light change 06:46 NH4 has 0 to COLNO-1/ROWNO-1 06:46 iirc NH3 has at least one of these starting from 1 06:47 well I stole the code from fiqhack's master light, so I'm not surprised 06:47 Yes, I suspected that 06:47 Yes, and wasn't THAT a fine mes for someone (coppro IIRC) to clean up. 06:47 (By the way, why didn't you hijack do_clear_area for that? IIRC FIQHack did) 06:48 We had a number of bugs due to that, mostly having to do with ROWNO,COLNO being used as flag values. 06:48 FIQ: because my knowledge of the codebase isn't as complete as yours? 06:48 aosdict: Sorry 06:48 I just figured you looked at the fiqhack change, which does basically that 06:50 My NaTiDraMo tileset proceeds apace: http://jonadab.jumpingcrab.com/pastebin/916.png 06:50 aosdict: would be fun if rings you dropped into sinks had a chance at spawning at the sewers if that was the chosen minesend for that game 06:51 I think I am pleased with the kobolds. 06:51 Not so sure about the crocodile. Maybe I need to bring his tail around in front of his feet or something. 06:52 * jonadab adds that to the TODO list. 06:53 yay, fiqhack wizard patch applied (with conflicts, but better than straight up refusal) 06:53 FIQ: did i miss any update notices while i was offline? 06:54 Kind of, but only minor tweaks 06:54 so I never mentioned it 06:54 ok 06:54 I generally only mention it if the change has a more than marginal impact 06:54 Feel free to update 06:54 ok 06:55 All the Fourk commits have been tiles and documentation. 06:55 That situation will likely continue to obtain for much of November. 06:56 Because I still need 712 more tiles. 06:56 Not counting substitutions. 07:02 FIQ: I think I will be slightly saner and stick "incomplete" stuff like the FWP and the beginning work on the combat system overhaul into separate branches. 07:03 ok 07:03 -!- Porkmantwo has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:10 aosdict: Wait, are you rebasing FIQHack onto 3.6? 07:10 Nope. 07:10 I was gonna say, that would be a substantial undertaking. 07:10 The FIQHack Wizard Patch is just FIQhack wizard changes ported to 3.6. 07:10 Ah. 07:11 Energy regen, starting with all spellbooks, etc 07:11 Not the monster spellcasting stuff? 07:11 Not at this time. 07:11 The monster spellcasting stuff is why monsters have spellbooks in FIQHack, which is relevant for wizards finding them... usually at level-appropriate times. 07:13 Relevant, yes, but currently I'm interested in the smaller set of changes 07:14 and how people would like it if vanilla wizards had some fiqhack improvements like better regen and better starting spells 07:14 but not necessarily all fiqhack spellcast stuff 07:16 -!- StinkyGreene has joined #hardfought 07:17 Ah. 07:17 -!- Neko-chan is now known as Neko-spook 07:18 -!- Porkman has joined #hardfought 07:19 hmm should I do a halloween nick... 07:19 -!- Neko-spook is now known as Neko-chan 07:19 -!- aosdict is now known as aoslich 07:22 * raisse doesn't do halloween anyway 07:24 [10fh] Blah (knaveightt) (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 5775 points, T:23, quit 07:27 I did balloon animals for a Trunk or Treat event. 07:27 I think that counts as discharging my Halloween-related responsibilities for one year. 07:28 -!- reapersan has joined #hardfought 07:28 I think I twisted about 200 balloons. 07:31 @le?lesser moloch 07:31 reapersan: Message from aos at 2017-10-29 21:52 EDT: caw 07:31 lesser moloch (08,01&) | Lvl: 12 | Diff: 16 | Spd: 12 | Res: fire cold magic drain | Confers: nothing | MR: 0 | Generates: special | AC: 2 | Attacks: 2d6 bite random breath | Alignment: 0 | Flags: flies, tunnels, unsolid, regenerates, demon, stalker 07:40 * K2 doesnt really do halloween either 07:40 but i do go trick or treating with my kid 07:41 last 2 months 'dad, i'm gonna be Moana!' 07:41 get costume all set, etc 07:41 last night 'i dont wanna be Moana' 07:41 oh to be 5 again... 07:41 -!- loli has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:43 I am dressed as a witch at work today. I like days like today. 07:43 Also, devnull tomorrow! 07:44 0700 UTC? 07:44 yes 07:45 devnull tomorrow! does anyone know the URL at which one can download the merged xlogfile for the tournament? I'm getting Clan EIT Elite Scoreboard running and and gotta feed it fresh hot data :) 07:45 -!- Neko-chan is now known as NekoWitch 07:45 cc Mandevil 07:45 one sec 07:45 [07nd] Eleven (Mon Hum Fem Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a werewolf, on T:34268 07:45 -!- NekoWitch is now known as cdsgirl 07:46 https://www.hardfought.org/devnull/xlogfiles/ 07:46 -!- cdsgirl is now known as Cdsgirl 07:46 gamache ^ 07:46 K2: love it, thanks! 07:46 yw :P 07:46 right now there's nothing in them 07:46 yup 07:46 we've blanked everything out in preparation for go time 07:46 K2: did you ever end up resizing that instance? 07:46 dtype: not yet 07:47 not until after the tourney 07:47 I'm sure I'll have to do a bit of a tweak to get it working once data starts appearing, but no big deal 07:47 when i resize i'll have to start paying 07:47 right now https://gunyoki.net is showing 2012 scores :p 07:47 weren't you going to try keep it a micro 07:47 see if it holds 07:47 K2: the smaller t2 stuff is also more capable than most people think 07:47 gamache yeah if you need help, just let us know 07:47 I mean 07:47 it's nethack we're talking about 07:47 K2: should be pretty easy to figure out I imagine 07:47 FIQ yeah to start 07:47 but thanks 07:47 np 07:47 K2: just monitor the available cpu credits on the dashboard (is one of the basic monitor graphs for the instance) 07:48 I'm pretty sure my VPS would be fully capable of hosting a nethack server 07:48 and I pay like $60 a year for it 07:48 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:48 I also volunteer to run a server, if that's something that's needed 07:48 the only concerns i have are nh4 games 07:48 hah 07:48 and if you decide to farm zapm again 07:48 K2: but it's supposed to be on 12% threshould 07:48 you told me so! 07:48 yes, for an 8 core server 07:48 also I didn't realize I was bringing down the server 07:48 lol 07:49 t2.micro is ONE core 07:49 but this was hdf proper... 07:49 cpu was 100% on one core 07:49 so 13% overall 07:49 and somehow it brought the entire server down? 07:49 no not at all 07:49 at that point I think the bottleneck was connection, not cpu 07:49 you just added a fair amount of latency 07:49 ah 07:49 I guess 07:49 no guessing 07:50 i seen it! 07:50 :P 07:50 [12slex] rikersan (Cha Ang Mal Cha), 670 points, T:577, killed by a monster (innocuous teacher) 07:50 seems a bit weird that a single core taking 100% cpu out of 8 would bring major latency 07:50 yeah yeah I believe you, but 07:50 FIQ it normally doesnt 07:50 like 07:50 consider NH4 replaymode 07:50 it's... well, slow 07:50 i've never seen that happen before with any of the nh3/4 variants 07:50 but it doesn't lagspike the entire server 07:50 zapm is special 07:50 K2: do you know what I did though 07:50 right 07:50 if cpu was an issue, linux cgroups allow you to set up cpu quotas, so you could keep a process limited to some fraction of a cpu. but probably too much work to set it up at the last minute 07:50 I pasted a 16MB macro 07:50 werent you just running a farm script? 07:51 figuring "eh it's ok, server will handle it" 07:51 cpu wise it did just fine 07:51 and using 100% cpu isn't unheard of in terms of NH4 replaymode 07:51 wondering how it affected latency though 07:51 so I wonder if my connection was too much :P 07:51 hah 07:51 can't handle the 100/100 07:52 Voltara: hi! nice that you fixed some issues 07:52 the power armor thing was something I found out earlier when trying to get power armor lol 07:52 Voltara: have you noticed issues with maintaining mutation abilities + restoration? 07:52 I think it fucks up your cha 07:53 there were also other issues, but they mostly just showed up because of the farming I guess 07:53 like me having $-32150ish buckazoids 07:54 FIQ: i saw you mention it last night but it's not something i've noticed myself. only unfixed issue in my old notes involved geiger counter "clicking" status not updated correctly when power runs out 07:54 and radiation sickness, pregnancy and cha regen freezing 07:54 last night 'i dont wanna be Moana' 07:54 Voltara: ah 07:54 at least she rhymes? :) 07:54 heh 07:54 guessing money wouldn't be something we could fix for tournament without messing up savefile compatibility. but that's just a guess 07:54 yes Voltara thank you for teh zapm patches 07:54 I mean 07:54 there's no zapm saves atm 07:55 but yeah it's a minor issue 07:55 -!- Cdsgirl is now known as Neko-spook 07:55 the cha thing is the most concerning one I think 07:55 but not really sure how to properly reproduce it, I *think* the issue is like I described above 07:55 but I'm not sure 07:55 (like, I started the game with 8 cha, invested no effort in having it improved, and suddenly I had like 20) 07:55 hmm 07:56 after tourney is over, could maybe see zapm 0.8.4 07:56 or 0.9 ? 07:56 hmmm.. now that you mention it that sounds *vaguely* familiar, but it's been, well a year since i last played zapm :-) 07:56 K2: I think it might be worthwhile to backport PRIME bug fixes (there probably is some) 07:56 just I was unable to find a git repo or similar 07:56 ah yeah 07:56 with commit logs 07:56 isnt prime basically zapm 2.0 ? 07:56 K2: either that, or just host PRIME outright 07:57 I mean, it's basically a not-dead zapm 07:57 i see 07:57 another variant to get confused over :) 07:57 hah 07:57 the major reason *against* the way I see it 07:57 is that PRIME isn't nethack 07:57 ZAPM has justification in the fact that it used to be a devnull game 07:57 less sure with PRIME 07:58 yeah 07:58 but 07:58 we can do whatever the fuck we want 07:58 K2: of course 07:58 :) 07:58 just that I recall someone asking a while back about you hosting non-nethack stuff 07:58 and your reply was pretty much "no lol" 07:58 i reserve the right to mull it over and change my mind :P 07:58 :P 07:59 it's not as if hardfought has always been a nethack-only server 07:59 still no deucehack host :< 07:59 aoslich: true 07:59 well 07:59 for now we're going to keep zapm as an easter egg, so if any more fixes for it come down, i'd definitely keep it patched 07:59 to me it always was, since I didn't really know about hdf before it became a nethack server 07:59 :P 07:59 and have used it as one exclusively 08:00 K2: MTF still has his eyes on world domination 08:00 the main reason he hasn't done stuff is that he'd rather do it *right* the first time around in terms of framework :P 08:00 heh 08:00 FIQ: you should implement jonadab's "master of the universe" ending so he can achieve world domination 08:01 Heh 08:01 mtf? 08:01 nethack has only been up on hardfought for roughly 12% of its existience 08:01 stenno_: RLdiscord admin, loves to play fiqhack 08:01 ah discord 08:01 (which is the main reason why I know him) 08:01 i wish i had started hosting it a lot sooner 08:01 how big is the nethack community on the discord? 08:01 that is hard to say due to how discord works 08:02 but I'd say there is around 5 active speakers 08:02 brb 08:02 and a lot of lurkers 08:02 mh ok 08:03 [07nd] Eleven (Mon Hum Fem Cha), 39680 points, T:35772, killed by an ochre jelly 08:03 just counted 08:03 6 active people (as in, people who talk there every day or so) 08:03 We have a discord? 08:03 Can I has link? 08:04 khoR: No, I am talking about RLdiscord 08:04 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 08:04 Can I has link? 08:04 https://discordapp.com/invite/Hq8wPcs 08:04 thanks 08:04 was trying to figure out how to make an invite lol 08:04 reapersan: <3 08:04 googled "roguelikes discord" and apparently that's been linked enough times 08:04 khor: lol, thank whoever made that 08:04 and then chrome chrashed 08:04 I am only in the discord as of like 2 minutes ago 08:05 fiq: you use browser discord? 08:05 yes 08:05 it's kinda shit, but the only way I can use it somewhat portably 08:05 hm ok 08:05 still can't use it on the go though 08:05 app is a lot faster, just fyi :p 08:05 discord is shit 08:05 and you know there's a mobile app right 08:05 if I could avoid using it 08:05 I would 08:05 I can't use the mobile app at all 08:05 huh 08:05 I tried to install it 08:05 it refused 08:05 I have given up on ever getting Discord to work reasonably. 08:06 and my pandora can't use browser discord 08:06 reapersan: woohoo, welcome in the clan :) also, happy halloween! *insert spider image here* 08:06 LarienTelrunya: Message from FIQ at 2017-10-30 14:08 EDT: https://www.reddit.com/r/nethack/comments/79bu17/suppose_the_manufacturers_of_cheap_plastic/ 08:06 it blocks my browser 08:06 I will just stick to irc, it is better by a wide wide margin anyway. 08:06 trying to muck with user agent kind of worked but it was slow 08:06 basically the only reason I use discord 08:06 is because people I want to keep in contact with do 08:06 jonadab: ##OrderOfTheCockatrice-nethack has a RLDiscord #NetHack gateway 08:07 if you want to be part of it w/o actually messing with discord 08:07 works well enough 08:07 Yeah, I don't really see the point of setting up discord myself when I can treat it as just another IRC channel. 08:07 aoslich: yeah, if #NetHack was the only discord I wanted to reach, I wouldn't bother 08:07 There are a couple of Discord communities I'd _kind of_ like to engage, but eh. The Brogue community has a mostly-working IRC gateway, and that was the more important one. 08:07 !lastgame rikersan 08:07 LarienTelrunya: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rikersan/slex/dumplog/1509373388.slex.txt 08:08 however, for whatever stupid reason, TPPdevs insisted on switching from a fully working setup using slack, to discord 08:08 The NewGamePlus podcast people can either figure out how to have a venue that is actually usable, or I will just listen and maybe email them occasionally. 08:08 which is why I still use discord 08:08 TPPdevs? Is that one of your portable-device venues? 08:09 no, TPPdevs is pokemon stuff 08:09 Oh, I thought that was related. 08:09 Gameboy blah blah blah. 08:09 mhm 08:09 romhacking in general is why I set up discord in first place 08:09 not just for TPP 08:10 Right, romhacking is _theoretically_ an interesting subject to me, but not something I have gotten into in any practical way, partly because I've never owned a device that uses ROMs. 08:10 didn't you own an atari 2600 way back? 08:11 Me? No. My grandmother did. And on the other side of the family my cousins. 08:11 ah 08:11 But we lived out of state, so I only played on them a few times. 08:11 jonadab: tbh I find it a bit annoying 08:11 my first major recent experience with non-IRC IM stuff 08:11 was discord 08:11 it was so bad 08:11 lol 08:11 then I ended up using slack for TPP stuff 08:11 expected the same thing 08:12 but the weechat slack add-on worked surprisingly well 08:12 I have only had experience with two only vaguely-similar-to-IM technologies that I actually like. 08:12 I have no substantial complaints about it at all 08:12 Then they decided to switch to discord.. 08:12 Urgh 08:12 One was campus email, back in the nineties; with everyone on campus, the message delivery times were comparable to IRC. 08:12 Heh 08:12 We used Pegasus Mail, and I think the server was Mercury. 08:12 IRC is the other one. 08:12 gamache: xlogfile.dnt in that dir will be combined xlogfile from all the particular sources. 08:13 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 08:13 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 08:13 I've seen and tried to use and hated: ICQ, AIM, GAIM/whatevertheycallitnow, and numerous others. 08:13 And IRC, before I found irssi. 08:13 Because Chatzilla and other IRC clients like it are terrible. 08:13 jonadab: Slack's web thing is better than Discord's, but still kinda crappy 08:13 If I could only use IRC with those kind of clients, I wouldn't use it much. 08:13 The weechat add-on is great, though 08:13 No experience with Slack. 08:14 I used to use ircii 08:14 I can treat it like just another IRC server 08:14 And TrumpetIRC before that (that was a DOS client). 08:14 Without any issues, more or less 08:14 Did that go with Trumpet Winsock? 08:14 (There are some minor nitpicks I have with it, but it's mostly flawless) 08:14 No, Winsock was a win thing. 08:14 Ah. 08:14 it's too bad that Discord doesn't have something similar 08:15 the brief period of a somewhat working weechat discord add-on with some issues, but mostly minor, was glorious 08:15 Mandevil: excellent, thank you for the note! 08:15 then API change happened and it became unusable 08:15 hooray 08:15 If the people who implemented Discord had some experience IRC when they implemented Discord, Discord would be a much better thing than it is. 08:15 Mandevil: I plan to download that file every ten minutes, if that's not a problem 08:16 Mandevil: Before weechat, I used X-Chat 08:16 And before then I used mIRC 08:16 gamache: That's a question for K2, but I'm 99.9% sure it's no problem at all for him. 08:16 gamache: If it's an append-only file such as an xlogfile, use a client that can resume where it "left off". 08:16 Such as wget with the -c option. 08:16 They both work well enough 08:16 FIQ: I had been using X-Chat for a long time. 08:16 but weechat had the obvious benefit of being a terminal application 08:16 which is nice with tmux 08:16 and I don't really lose anything 08:17 But so is irssi. 08:17 jonadab: as far as message passing goes, there's not that much that can't be built with a backbone of IRC+hyperlinks 08:17 Mandevil: Of course 08:17 If I didn't use weechat 08:17 I would probably use irssi 08:17 Yes, I can't go back to using clients that don't run in a terminal multiplexer. 08:17 jonadab: nice tip, though it assumes the merged logfile merges its constituents in a consistent order 08:17 of course, discord also contains voice and video 08:17 which... can't be done like that 08:17 aoslich: I knew it had voice 08:17 Does the Discord client log the communications? 08:17 but video? 08:17 gamache: That's why the "if" clause. 08:18 aoslich: With that said, voice isn't really needed 08:18 Our DCSS team switched to Discord and now there's no history of our talk. 08:18 I haven't touched its voice capabilities ever 08:18 I think I'll stick to downloading every 10 minutes, and not worrying about it. If devnull.nethack.net could handle it without falling over... 08:18 Mandevil: That's weird, Discord logs server-side 08:18 I don't think I want my internet chat to have voice. I'm stone cold certain I don't want it to have video. 08:18 Which isn't optimal, but it's *something* 08:19 When it comes to discord issues, lack of clientside logs isn't really high on the list to me 08:19 FIQ: So I missed server side logs I guess. 08:19 it sucks, badly 08:19 I mean, you could *represent* voice and video chats with messages, like "@someone has started a video call" 08:19 FIQ: Indeed. 08:19 but there's much worse issues 08:19 ^ 08:20 Mandevil: also, my condolences 08:20 to the Discord switch 08:20 FIQ: the faux items are fun :) 08:20 Such as being effectively a proprietary protocol only implemented by proprietary software that is terrible and unreliable and a pain to get to run. 08:20 FIQ: Well, before that we only talked on reddit. 08:20 that is the #1 main issue for me with discord 08:21 it being properitiary 08:21 if it was open 08:21 FIQ: Also DCSS has in-game chat. 08:21 all other issues could be fixed with alternatives 08:21 EPI: create a Discord channel and advertise it in-game as the primary way for players to communicate with each other. 08:21 ^ 08:21 Yeah, that. 08:21 I mean, this is why slack works as well with weechat for example 08:21 its "official" offerings are only slightly better than discord 08:21 I don't mind the existence of proprietary software, but I want proprietary protocols to not exist. 08:21 Also file formats. 08:22 it has a less insane UI but it still has issues 08:22 but weeslack is glorious :P 08:22 -!- reapersan has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:23 bonus points for offering logging (it's weechat, after all), which the official one doesn't do more than 10k scrollback on a free community setup 08:23 jonadab: from the business side of things, it would probably be awful if you had to publish all your protocols (and then inevitably have to make APIs or whatever for them when demand rises) 08:23 (which is actually *worse* than discord, in that regard) 08:23 FIQ: Scrollback? Scrollback is irrelevant... 08:23 Discord is <3 08:24 Mandevil: both Discord and Slack has searchable scrollback 08:24 FIQ: My IRC has searchable scrollback too :) 08:24 that goes back basically forever 08:24 in discord's case 08:24 and 10k lines in slack's 08:24 FIQ: I have irssi save everyhting to logfiles. 08:24 (with a paid subscription, there's no limit) 08:25 FIQ: Which I can scroll and search to my heart's content. 08:25 Mandevil: I am not trying to say that discord/slack offer superior logging 08:25 FIQ: I'm on a slack server for a several-years-old community. It is no end of annoying when I try to look up some image someone sent me a few months ago and slack is just like "well sorry, maybe you should give us some money so you can view it" 08:25 -!- HTTPS has joined #hardfought 08:25 in fact, I don't think it does 08:25 aoslich: use weeslack 08:25 HTTPS: please add winny to Fellowship of the =, or grant me the ability to send invites 08:26 Sure thing 08:26 slack had issues similar to discord for me (better UI, but other issues persisted) 08:26 aoslich: "Make me an admin"... FTFY. 08:26 -!- reapersan has joined #hardfought 08:26 then deepy told me about weechat 08:26 er 08:26 weeslack 08:26 worked amazingly for my purposes 08:26 and basically removed all of my issues with slack 08:27 since it's pretty much treated as IRC from weechat's POV 08:27 Done 08:27 including clientside logs 08:27 -!- loli has joined #hardfought 08:27 and saner highlighting 08:27 being able to have it in a tmux 08:27 etc, etc 08:28 Is everyone using tmux? 08:28 FIQ: I might actually prefer the web interface, since then I can actually confirm how my messages look to other people 08:28 Am I the only holdover from the screen days? 08:28 also, not sure if weeslack allows edit/delete functionality? 08:28 aoslich: what do you mean? 08:28 yes it does 08:28 s/foo/bar/ for replace 08:28 s/// for delete 08:29 i held on for the longest time, but eventually switched over to tmux 08:29 what if you want to delete or edit an older message 08:29 its UI for managing older messages is a bit awkward 08:29 and could be done better 08:29 but considering how rarely I do that, I don't really mind 08:29 Hm... can you control tmux externally? 08:29 also, with the appearance stuff, I mean things like I type :P and everyone else sees 😛 08:29 aoslich: add a number before the s 08:29 I have some scripts that actually control screen session. 08:29 it replaces stuff that I don't want to replace 08:30 aoslich: it doesn't replace it 08:30 actually 08:30 it appears as ":P" for others 08:30 this does not happen when I connect to slack through irssi and the slack web interface 08:31 if you want the actual emote you have to do :stuck_out_tongue: 08:31 when I do that, it does substitute it in the message 08:31 aoslich: Probably because whatever you use on irssi does the replacement? 08:31 But yes, the web interface will replace :P 08:31 whether you want it or not 08:31 weeslack doesn't 08:31 also, I'm not sure whether that smiley I pasted actually got sent, but irssi is choosing to keep it hovering right below everyone's messages, haha 08:32 Something I found odd, but didn't mind 08:32 aoslich: Pasting fullwidth characters does weird things to some terminals 08:32 You did send it 08:32 Er, not pasting 08:32 but yeah 08:34 W͔̱̫̤̱͙ͤͭͭͮ̎̅̋̈ͯ͋ͧͫͬ̈́̕ḩ̷̨͙̺̝̻̞͔̟̭̞͎̥̔ͯ͛͊ͩͤ̍̈́́ą͈͍̼̘̜͚̬̦͕̤̯͕͔̘͚͕̪̊̏͐ͥ̌͞ͅt̵̡͓͎̺̤̖ͪ̈̈̒̾͑͒ͭ̄̅͘͘͞ 08:34 ̵̟̝̭̱̩͚̳̗̎ͭ̆͐̚͘͞ę̷͖̺͕̩̗̦̩͇̉͆̒ͦ͜ͅr̸̡̪͍̙͕̞̘̰̱̘̬̻̰͓͉̦ͧ͂͂̍ͫͯ̓ͥ͊̈́̓̌ͦͯ͢͢͝ͅͅm̴̡͚̯̲̖͇̬͔͉̫̤̯̆͊͆ͨ̈́͗ͩ̏̏̎̏͒̚͠ͅí̴ͨ͐̄ͭͪ͐͂̏̄̑͗͏̥̰̭̜̗̳̼̲͎̜̬͔͍͉n̷̢̧̮̫̫̝͕̘͍̺̼̠̩̜͍̈́ͭ͒̏̎̑̈́̿͌̓̚̚͞͞a̷͍̬̮̰̥̻̰̘̩͇̹̎̔ͩ͌͝͝ͅl̢̰̣̣̺̉͆ͪ͑̓̉͆ͭ̃́̒ͫ͊̽ͤ̃̿ͭ́ 08:34 ̡̩͉͙̖͕̠̳̩͈̪̮͇̖̆ͬ̃̐ͯ̾̅u̢̝̖̩̣̗͍̱ͪ̑̅̎̔ͬͣͦ̾ͮͪ̀́̕͝s̸̬͕̣̤͕͓͈͚̓́̆̌̓̈́͗̃͐̓̉͑́è̱̯̟̻͚̜̬̣̐̈́̈̂ͧ̀̀͢ͅr̴̠̖̥̖̺ͤͪ̔ͦͩͣͬͪ͋ͭ̈́ͣͫͮ́̅ͧ͑͗͠s̛̛̱͖̜͚͔̬̙̲̮ͩ͋͆ͤ͒̋̌͝ 08:34 aoslich: but yeah, weeslack will not do any more emote translations than the "real" emote name and symbol 08:34 What now terminal users 08:34 holy crap that hurt me 08:34 i.e. someone doing a slack ":)", showing the emote, show as ":slightly_smiling_face:" on weeslack side 08:34 I can't see much 08:34 https that killed my terminal ;-; everything is now unicode 08:35 * aoslich zaps reapersan with a wand of diacritics 08:35 reapersan: just redraw the terminal 08:35 Yeah I accidentally messed up my own IRC client 08:35 do you all have so shitty terminals 08:35 until it disappears from scrollback 08:35 stenno_: naw, works fine here 08:35 stenno_: I don't know why people hate on gnome-terminal, never had a problem with it 08:36 if it can't display utf-8 08:36 stenno_: that isn't the problem 08:36 stenno: OSX is shitty 08:36 tha'ts just a fact of life with it 08:36 some terminals (Konsole does this) fuck up display badly 08:36 iterm2 is great 08:36 and my terminal definitely can I just don't have it set to utf 8 right now 08:36 it's cp437 08:36 if you use certain fancy unicode characters 08:36 stenno: same problem 08:36 no 08:36 which problem? 08:36 utf8 != latin 1 08:37 i am using iterm2 and utf8 08:37 I can only render one or other at a time, so I've got 2 terminal themes set up for each encoding ;P 08:37 stenno: yep I'm using latin 1 here 08:37 why do you have latin-1 encoding 08:37 to show the curses graphics I like 08:37 to be fair, I've tried (and failed) to use lt to set up hdf so that it basically treats it as CP437 08:37 so I can use IBMgraphics on NH3 08:38 -!- firemonkey has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:38 and why is osx shitty now? 08:38 -!- firemonkey has joined #hardfought 08:39 zalgo is just super noisy lol 08:39 stenno: I like it sometimes but today I'm frustrated with it ;P 08:40 oh yeah i was frustrated with it yesterday 08:51 -!- joemaro has quit [Client Quit] 08:54 -!- StinkyGreene has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:08 aoslich: Just use an existing open protocol under the hood. I mean, OpenILS uses OpenSRF, which is built entirely on top of jabber. 09:08 Use HTTPS 09:08 No bias 09:08 What you _don't_ have to do is let unauthorized things connect to your server. 09:09 But if you're running something like a chat service, as Discord is, there's no point running it if you don't let people connect to it. 09:09 And they do, but the only software that knows how is terrible at a level that reminds me of Real Player. 09:10 jonadab: that is a disgrace to realplay 09:10 er 09:11 Did you ever have to deal with Real Player? 09:11 no 09:11 It was just as bad as Discord. 09:11 actually yes 09:11 a long time ago 09:11 Also, QuickTime for Windows. 09:11 * jonadab shudders. 09:11 don't remember how bad it was 09:11 it played music 09:11 that's all I asked for 09:12 winamp though 09:12 It sort of played music. It crashed even more often than Netscape 3. 09:12 And it froze up your whole computer for about two minutes every time you launched it. 09:12 While it did some kind of elaborate calculation to decide which of its many nag advertisements to show or not show you this time. 09:13 Some of which required multiple counterintuitive steps to dismiss. 09:13 It did actually work, at least a portion of the time, though, I'll give it that. 09:14 Most stuff works some of the time 09:14 The challenge is finding or making stuff that works all of the time 09:16 Ah, halp. 09:16 My warhorse suddently started attacking me. 09:16 Is he hungry? D: 09:16 or conflict 09:16 or confused for another reason 09:16 No conflict 09:16 but likely hunger yes 09:16 unless a black light exploded in his face 09:17 he was confused 09:17 but apparently throwing the apple made him less confused somehow 09:17 Confused from hunger? 09:17 -!- loli has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:17 Pets do get confused if hungry beyond a certain level, yes. 09:17 [08un] sullysully (Wiz Hum Fem Cha), 23639 points, T:15187, petrified by a chickatrice corpse 09:17 yes, if feeding fixes then that's good 09:17 In practice, this is generally only noticeable with herbivores. 09:17 khor: feed him all the apples 09:17 HTTPS: I like how you think. 09:18 khoR: Thanks. 09:19 But unfortunately I only think like that some of the time 09:19 Dangit 09:19 3 oil lamps 09:19 and I got excited. 09:19 HTTPS: I have not yet been able to personally verify that the Discord app ever actually works at all, for its advertised purpose. 09:19 which is what? 09:19 it works fine for me 09:19 I use and love Discord 09:19 Discord is <3. 09:19 Dont criticize mybaby 09:19 :( 09:19 Which is like what we use IRC for, only some people want to use Discord for it instead. 09:20 Discord is possibly better but we'd have to migrate rodney and some other shenanigans 09:20 IRC is good for this, discord is really just best for voice chat 09:20 There's stuff like emoticons and whatnot but it's not a major thing 09:20 amy gives enough emotes for all of us 09:20 Some IRC clients support that. 09:21 Discord is much easier to access from different devices. 09:21 [07nd] firemonkey (Sam Hum Mal Law), 1266 points, T:1233, quit 09:21 khoR: That's nonsense. 09:21 I used both. 09:21 It's n ot. 09:21 I can connect to my irc session from anywhere on the internet. 09:21 Very easily. 09:21 What do you use for that? 09:21 I don't want all the discord perks and I'm so much of a dinosaur that I'll stay on IRC until everybody else is gone from there 09:21 Discord definitely has a lower barrier to entry, so maybe we could collect newbies? 09:21 Eh 09:21 khoR: Screen 09:21 ... 09:21 But tmux would also work. 09:21 I've come to like IRC 09:21 * raisse uses juicessh and screen on the phone 09:21 I don't even know what tmux is. 09:22 Stockholm syndrome I guess 09:22 terminal multiplexer 09:22 HTTPS: There are things I don't like about IRC, mostly due to its age and the fact that it was designed in an era when certain things were not a consideration. 09:22 HTTPS: Discord already does collect newbies. 09:22 HTTPS: But every other internet chat technology is worse. 09:22 HTTPS: no, irc is actually nice if you don't want pictures and movement and emoticons and stuff 09:22 Discord definitely meshes better with mobile use than IRC. 09:22 That one thing I liked. 09:23 I mean you can always make no image/video channels 09:23 Then they mostly start playing FIQHack because the whole RLDiscord #nethack channel loves fiqhack :P 09:23 lol 09:23 I didn't start it 09:23 I like IRC beacuse I can switch between terminal tabs for IRC and the server 09:23 but yes that is why I am there, mostly 09:24 Yes, that's one very very large negative about Discord: you can't run it in a terminal. For me, that means I can't access it when I'm not on my own computer. 09:24 aoslich: if RLdiscord was removed 09:24 NOt that I can get it to run on my computer in the first place _anyway_. 09:24 fh would once again be dead last in terms of amount of plays 09:24 lol 09:24 Not on any of the three computers I've tried it on, in fact. 09:24 jonadab: https://github.com/Rivalo/discord-cli 09:24 jonadab: does bitlbee have a discord gateway? 09:25 [08un] sullysully (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 152 points, T:1106, killed by a small mimic 09:25 HTTPS: I've actually used that 09:25 FIQ: Dunno, I keep trying to find motivation to set up bitlbee and keep not finding it. 09:25 It isn't very good 09:25 I found better alternatives 09:25 and alongside others, they all died 09:25 CLI Discord would be cool. 09:25 in API change 09:26 HTTPS: Hmm, I will perhaps have one more go at it with that later. 09:26 discord-cli is slightly less ghetto than using telnet to IRC 09:26 that's how good it is 09:26 i.e. not very 09:26 Yes, being able to run it in a terminal session would remove about half, maybe two thirds of my objections. 09:26 I wish there was s decent discord/irc bridge 09:26 Wait I've been telnet ing to IRC this whole time 09:27 Wait not actually sure how this client works 09:27 irssi? 09:27 Neko-spook: there used to be 09:27 [08un] sullysully (Pri Elf Fem Cha), 16 points, T:94, killed by a sewer rat 09:27 2, actually 09:27 Hmm, I have never tried to use telnet to talk to IRC. ftp servers, web servers, mail servers, even nttp servers; never IRC. 09:27 a weeslack add-on 09:27 and discordIRcd 09:27 What happened to them? 09:27 they both broke 09:27 in API change 09:27 just like discord-cli did 09:28 FIQ: #brogue seems to have a working gateway again. 09:28 So API change was made to get rid of third party clients? 09:28 Truly a great tragedy 09:28 jonadab: that bot used another api 09:28 to my knowledge 09:28 there was 2 09:28 the "legacy" one was removed 09:29 Mandevil: unsure 09:29 but it killed off all my venues to discord 09:30 besides the official one 09:30 discord-cli broke 09:30 discordIRCd also 09:30 and the somewhat buggy weechat plugin 09:32 hmm 09:33 hmm... 09:33 yeah discord-cli is still broken 09:33 and the weechat add-on 09:34 discordIRCd seems to work, I wonder if the last time I tried, when the weechat one broke, was a fluke 09:34 or maybe the issue appeared later on 09:34 let's see 09:34 [07nd] elenmirie (Val Dwa Fem Law) had Excalibur thrown at her by some watery tart, on T:2867 09:35 what 09:35 need to look into it later 09:35 when bac home and I can set up the details discordIRCd wants to work 09:35 *back 09:36 reapersan: this one might still work, don't count on it 09:36 origin https://github.com/creesch/discordIRCd.git (fetch) 09:37 er, https://github.com/creesch/discordIRCd 09:37 o_O what about me? 09:37 did you mean to ping me? 09:37 oh, huh 09:37 cool :D 09:38 sorry, meant Neko-spook 09:38 I mean, I like it anyway :p 09:38 ah 09:38 but you weren't the one who ased for a discord-irc thing 09:38 yea 09:38 I'm glad you like it reapersan! 09:38 :p 09:38 FIQ: thanks for the link 09:39 it was a PITA to set up 09:39 but it kinda worked 09:39 -!- Haudegen has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:39 Is Rodney on the #nethack discord? 09:39 except for randomly crashing 09:39 but much better than discord-cli 09:39 worse than the weechat add-on 09:40 HTTPS: there isn't really a #nethack discord unless you mean the reddit /r/roguelikes discord 09:40 which contains a #nethack channel 09:40 I guess 09:40 The weechat add-on was v bad 09:40 aoslich: you mean #fiqhack 09:40 :P 09:40 Neko-spook: It worked OK 09:40 at least it didn't crash every 4 hours 09:41 i ended up setting up a shell script when I was using discordIRCd 09:41 that restarted it whenever it felt like crashing 09:41 Neko-spook: but yeah 09:42 the weeslack add-on was miles ahead 09:42 for comparision 09:42 I can attempt to code Rodney with the Discord API if there's any demand for it 09:42 HTTPS: there used to be a bot 09:42 that would redirect Rodney and Beholder messages 09:43 HTTPS: An irssi module for Discord would be more useful IMO. 09:43 I've been on the discord via web interface once. Honestly, if death messages (and Beholder's other messages) were redirected there, all actual conversation would get drowned out. 09:45 to RLdiscord's #nethack 09:46 I'm surprised you made it back 09:46 It's a dark land 09:47 lol 09:48 hmm 09:49 i wonder if it would be insane to attempt to create a weechat plugin for discord based on weeslack 09:49 depending on how decoupled the slack API part is 09:49 Those sure were some words 09:49 I understood some of them 09:49 [07nd] spork (Rog Orc Mal Cha), 3585 points, T:3012, quit 09:49 Mostly the articles 09:50 -!- HTTPS has quit [Quit: lunchtime] 09:51 [08un] sullysully (Bar Vam Mal Cha) killed the ghost of jailbird, the former Investigator, on T:3443 09:57 the RL discord is great, there's an ongoing discussion about getting people together to play a first person shooter 09:57 very thematic 09:57 uh???????????? 09:57 er, -lots of 09:57 something about a halloween TF2 tourament 09:57 ffs lag 09:58 reapersan: anyway, is this #general 09:58 nope 09:58 because #general in general can just be ignored 09:58 locked channel I think 09:58 oh, trick/treat? 09:58 nope, anothe rone 09:58 not entirely sure how i was invited 09:58 alcatraz? 09:59 ah 09:59 lol 09:59 but yeah 09:59 what's tha tone? 09:59 &one 09:59 *one 09:59 the RL channels are the ones actually worth following 09:59 the others.. meh 10:00 I lurk #nethack and #adom myself 10:01 welp I think Clan EIT Elite Scoreboard is set up correctly -- when data starts appearing in the xlogfile, scores will start appearing on https://gunyoki.net :) 10:01 FIQ: if you were farming zapm intensely enough, you could have overflowed the timer (32-bit signed int, which normally increments by 1000 units per move) 10:01 modulo any breaking changes to the xlogfile format 10:01 Thanks for being open to this sort of thing, folks! 10:02 that looks like a fun scoreboard, thanks! 10:02 haven't yet been able to figure out why Cha would get messed up, but if it happens to you and there's a ttyrec to watch, i could probably figure it out 10:05 K2: did you wipe ttyrecs 10:06 Mandevil: seems like you have a competitor 10:09 FIQ: ? 10:10 ttyrecs look like they're still there. just don't say "it's the 3.5G one" 10:12 FIQ: Ah, the EIT board. 10:12 FIQ: We have clans and challenges. 10:14 FIQ: ttyrecs and dumplogs are still there 10:15 -!- loli has joined #hardfought 10:20 -!- tolkien.freenode.net changed the topic on #hardfought to: Welcome to Hardfought - https://www.hardfought.org/ - public irc logs available on website ¤ Public NetHack server - ssh nethack@hardfought.org ¤ /dev/null/nethack tribute tournament starts Nov 1st!! - https://www.hardfought.org/devnull 10:20 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v NotTheOracle\dnt] by K2 10:21 NotTheOracle\dnt updated 10:22 FIQhack updated 10:22 [08un] knaveightt (Pri Hum Mal Cha), 3022 points, T:3668, killed by a jaguar 10:23 ~14h remaining 10:23 :) 10:24 &help 10:24 &ping - ping! &time - Get time remaining &news - request a tournament news bulletin ¬ify - Send message to tournament staff &lastgame/&lastasc - dumplogs from last game for player/server &scores - Link to scoreboard &servers - List of servers where you can play &help - This help. 10:24 how long is the tourney again? 10:24 cant ever remember all the commands 10:24 one month 10:24 all of november 10:24 cool 10:24 &ascend 10:24 :( 10:24 still missing important feature 10:24 i'll let Tangles know 10:25 &time 10:25 The time is 10:25:03(PDT) on Tuesday, October 31, 2017 10:25 The time remaining until the 2017 Tournament begins is '00-00-00:13-34-57' 10:25 (i am joking, its not really important) 10:25 heh 10:26 stenno_: Implementing of &ascend is given as a homework to each player. 10:26 lol 10:27 fair enough 10:27 stenno_, 3892172 points, T:27384, ascended 10:27 -!- spontiff has joined #hardfought 10:27 there :) 10:28 -!- reapersan has quit [Quit: welp night y'all, get well soon grasshopper] 10:28 ascending in 27k turns like a noob :v 10:28 how dare u 10:28 ey spontiff you wanna be in my PILE_OF_POO clan? 10:29 woo! 10:29 sure, invite away :) 10:29 nice 10:29 sent 10:30 Bugpowder, eh? 10:31 dunno how good they are 10:31 they just asked on reddit and i said yes 10:31 [08un] sullysully (Bar Vam Mal Cha) killed the ghost of sullysully, the former Thaumaturge, on T:8021 10:31 Tangles, K2: am I supposed to be seeing "NEW CODE!!!" in the clan management page? 10:32 probably not 10:32 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:32 NEW CODE!!! You have invited the following players to your clan 💩: 10:32 -!- StinkyGreene has joined #hardfought 10:32 i thought it belonged to it 10:32 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:32 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 10:33 it sounds enthusiastic but also mysterious 10:33 i am not seeing it 10:33 it it just when you invite a player? 10:33 i think so 10:33 ok 10:33 spontiff: i want tariru to join also and then see who else 10:33 probably wooble too if he likes to 10:34 stop stealing former lettuce players 10:34 heh 10:34 i was in lettuce too 10:34 fight! fight!! 10:34 idek if deepy even plays this time 10:35 deepy told me probably not (when I asked if they wanted to reform lettuce) 10:35 er, about deepy playing in devnull 10:35 i think i acquired most of the lettuce players to be fair :P 10:36 s/acquired/recruited/ 10:40 aoslich and stenno_ please try again on the invite bit 10:40 should be fixed 10:41 too late, spontiff already accepted :P 10:44 so, I get this wrong every year, but... 10:45 you can decline challenges in game, right? and not lose them permanently? 10:45 so long as you don't decline on the website 10:45 yes, you'll be asked if you want to decline forever or just for this game 10:45 ooh shiny new feature 10:47 Where can I register a user account? 10:47 gamache: On hardfought.org. 10:47 gamache: In dgamelaunch as usual. 10:47 gamache: Also, theres info in the "About" page on the scoreboard. 10:47 imagine I didn't know what that meant 10:48 :) 10:48 gamache: SSH to nethack@hardfought.org 10:49 ahhh there it is 10:49 I was expecting a shitty devnull-style registration process 10:49 We're not emulating devnull this closely. 10:49 -!- reapersan has joined #hardfought 10:50 you mean your website code doesn't start with 'print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"' ? 10:50 gamache: Apparently it does not? 10:51 gamache: It's on github anyway. 10:52 gamache: Krystal refused to publish the central server code. 10:52 -!- raisse has quit [Quit: Raisse suddenly disappears!] 10:52 gamache: So the grounds up rewrite was inevitable. 10:52 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 10:52 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 10:53 there was nothing worth saving in the old platform code 10:53 gamache: Krystal retired devnull 6 weeks ago. 10:53 the reason I did Clan EIT Elite Scoreboard is because the old one loaded so poorly 10:53 gamache: It didn't look like a lot time then. 10:53 much time 10:53 gamache: I created an alternate scoreboard too. 10:54 gamache: https://scoreboard.xd.cm/devnull/ 10:54 brb 10:54 gamache: Back in... 2015 or so. 10:54 Or maybe 2014 10:54 Not sure. 10:58 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:11 -!- StinkyGreene has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:16 Mandevil: ohh yeah I remember seeing this! Didn't know that was you. Cool! 11:19 is there a time delay between registering a user via ssh and being able to log in with it? 11:19 a minute I think 11:22 aha I get it, my password had funny chars and this broke the registration process 11:22 Wait, really? THat... _shouldn't_ cause a problem, in theory. 11:22 well my standard insecure password of an ascii dick begs to differ :D 8======D 11:22 Though I don't know the internals of how that's handled, I was under the impression that it was all new code handling it. 11:23 Are you sure you didn't typo the password, maybe add one extra = at some point? 11:23 Or one fewer? 11:23 fairly certain, this happened twice 11:23 The connection dropped unceremoniously both times 11:23 Hmm, ask Tangles then. 11:24 I just chose a different password 11:24 Or that, sure. 11:30 -!- HTTPS has joined #hardfought 11:33 [12slex] rikersan (Mon Ung Mal Cha), 11251 points, T:1638, killed by self-genocide 11:33 !lastgame rikersan 11:33 LarienTelrunya: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rikersan/slex/dumplog/1509473873.slex.txt 11:33 huh, no para? 11:33 I might have just been slow then 11:34 [07nd] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Neu) completed Sokoban, on T:12946 11:37 [07nd] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Neu) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:13207 11:39 jonadab: It uses crypt() function. 11:40 jonadab: That means anything non-ASCII non latin-1 will just break it. 11:40 Mandevil: Oh, interesting. 11:40 tell that to my ascii latin dick 11:40 Yes, that should work fine. 11:40 Also, not sure if there's length limit or something. 11:41 HEH 11:41 So please only small to average dicks. 11:41 it advertises a length limit of 20 and says no : allowed 11:42 I wonder why :? 11:42 Hopefully not because it's storing it in a colon-delimited list of fields in cleartext. 11:43 My original clan management code used bcrypt. 11:43 But that was when I thought it will be stand-alone code. 11:43 Ah, you switched to crypt() to match, what, dgamelaunch? 11:43 jonadab: I am not storing passwords at all. 11:43 jonadab: I just auth against dgamelaunch. 11:44 Ah. After the tournament we should look into making dgamelaunch use bcrypt or somesuch. 11:44 Dgamelaunch is C. 11:44 So you just need to get a library. 11:44 That should be trivial. 11:44 Handling UTF-8 correctly though... that might be much more involved. 11:45 The tricky part is making it A) still able to log in users whose passwords were hashed the old way and B) upgrade them to bcrypt at that time. 11:45 i am pretty sure that octe's DGL allowed unicode usernames 11:45 On crash-override? 11:45 unnethack 11:46 Oh. 11:46 Hmm. 11:46 [07nd] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Neu) had Dragonbane bestowed upon him by Chih Sung-tzu, on T:14452 11:46 was octe SCO admin too? wasn't it... blackpenguin or so? 11:46 Oh, not sure. 11:46 I might just have gotten confused. 11:47 also bcrypt ftw <3 11:47 Eit^h^h^height teams. 11:47 That's pretty nice. 11:47 hehe 11:47 I don't think devnull used to have more. 11:47 (in terms of actually active teams) 11:50 [07nd] Eleven (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 662 points, T:1459, killed by a small mimic 11:51 -!- loli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:54 -!- khoR has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 11:56 -!- loli has joined #hardfought 11:58 -!- HTTPS has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:05 Voltara: Oh, that's possible @ turncount overflow 12:08 Nice, eit-larry joined in. 12:08 Get it on boys. 12:09 Yeah once I figured out the registration process, I put out the call on our mailing list 12:09 gamache: What is EIT anyway? 12:09 gamache: I always wondered about that. 12:11 we're a bunch of mostly MIT folk. As far as I remember, we formed Clan EIT! for improved shit-talking performance during one of the devnull tournaments years back 12:11 Wow, MIT. 12:11 Then, against all odds, the concept of "clans" in a massively single-player online role playing game caught on 12:11 Sounds like Astral Plane of CS to me :) 12:12 gamache: This "Tribute" tournament is the last devnull... 12:12 gamache: ... we want to create something new for the november slot. 12:12 you have said this to me like eight times 12:12 there you go! out with it! 12:12 EIT times 12:12 I'm down to help 12:13 gamache: I mean, ideas are definitely welcome. 12:13 (if it were me, I'd just continue the devnull, but it's not just me) 12:13 Ideas aside from just taking the devnull nethack server code and running with it? 12:13 wishlist: devteam releases 3.6.1 before next november 12:13 what's your impediment there? 12:13 [12slex] rikersan (Mon Ung Mal Cha), 43971 points, T:3650, killed by self-genocide 12:13 gamache: Krystal said he wants devnull retired. 12:13 !lastgame 12:13 reapersan: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/r/rikersan/slex/dumplog/1509474883.slex.txt 12:13 then a tournament can be based on it which is better than 3.6.0 12:14 gamache: And the general sentiment I can see is to accept that wish. 12:14 I think the specific list of challenges that devnull has should retire with devnull, but the idea of challenges should be recycled, by adding, you know, new ones. Perhaps one new one each year, or something. 12:15 Also I think the idea of not patching bugs should retire with devnull. 12:15 Someone would need to come up with the challenges AND code them. 12:15 So if you volunteer that work... 12:16 Otherwise please some other ideas. 12:16 someone in #nethack had an idea like a week ago 12:16 At any rate, I am just saying the next November is currently terra nullius. 12:16 A void that needs to be filled. 12:16 you open up a pipe under a sink and go down it to play a Mario side scroller. 12:17 that sounds hard to code 12:17 or at least annoying 12:17 IMHO: Robin controls the name "devnull" as applied to a Nethack tournament, but I'm not shy about reimplementing and/or stealing every challenge that accreted over those almost 20 years in operation. At a certain point those challenges and scoring features became canon 12:17 Most of these suggestions break down when no one does the actual work. 12:17 aoslich: That would be hard to code in an integrated-into-the-NetHack-binary way. 12:17 gamache: The challenges are public. 12:17 gamache: The were publishes and this Tribute tournament has them. 12:17 I overwhelmingly think that the tournament should be able to run in the absence of a heavy time commitment for its operator(s) 12:18 Mandevil: exactly, I have them implemented on my scoreboard too 12:18 gamache: We were able to reimplement the cogs and gears in 6 weeks. 12:19 gamache: And if we had a full year, it would be so much better. 12:19 gamache: But that's not the problem. 12:19 I was a small part of the devnull infra team for a few of the years, and one big take-away is that Robin was way too busy to do this every year 12:19 gamache: There's no consensus about devnull going on. 12:19 gamache: Yes, I get that. 12:19 gamache: But when directly asked, he said "I want devnull to end". 12:19 gamache: There's a link to a tweet on the About page. 12:20 consensus how? Robin's through running it, and doesn't get a say in whether someone else runs a substantially similar tournament with a different name 12:20 I don't see a need for consensus there. We represent consensus that the devnull tournament was really fun, and we want it around for current and probably future nerds to enjoy 12:20 Consensus in the NetHack community. 12:20 Some of the persons who helped organize the tribute tournament this year are thinking that the tournament should diverge one way or another from its devnull roots in future years. 12:21 Although, I think the consensus is that it should be a mostly-vanilla NetHack experience, not another Junethack. 12:23 But yeah, re the consensus... the tournament is not really about consensus. 12:23 Given that the actual work is done by few. 12:24 But at least the people who are willing to do the work must agree. 12:24 Do people agree that the planned new tournament should be more welcoming to new and unskilled players than devnull has historically been? 12:25 aoslich: NetHack is not particularly welcoming itself. 12:25 aoslich: What do you want to change about that? 12:26 I have asked several people in #nethack whether they're playing, and they've all said "nah I don't think I'm good enough" 12:26 Yes, but how do you make it "more welcoming"? 12:26 Do you know the trophies? 12:26 !lotg amybsod 12:26 May the Luck of the Grasshopper be with you always, amybsod! 12:26 There are very simple ones. 12:27 aoslich: I agree that Nethack is noob-hostile and I wouldn't seek to change that 12:27 the tournament's rewards are heavily biased towards elite players who can win a lot (not that I think this is a problem in and of itself, but...) 12:27 Plastic Start = Mine's End luckstone. 12:27 Lead Star = sokoban. 12:27 aoslich: You should see the DCSS tournament. 12:28 just because I am a total chump and have never ascended doesn't mean I don't like watching people like eit_brad and marvin and mit_rax completely wreck shit 12:28 I don't feel like there should be a general sentiment of "must be expert player to even participate" is all. 12:28 gamache: On a tangent... the Tribute tournament allows watching :) 12:28 aoslich: That sentiment is false to begin with. 12:29 Mandevil: one of our clansmen just emailed in, "currently watching eitbo select a character" :D 12:29 Lol. 12:29 Oh, another team. 12:29 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 12:29 aoslich: if any of Clan EIT's "elite!!" rhetoric is to blame for that feeling, we apologize (kinda) 12:30 when does the tournament start exactly? (i.e. which time in which timezone?) 12:30 ais523: Message from FIQ at 2017-10-30 08:24 EDT: how do I debug save writing? I'm encountering a bug I can't make any sense of 12:30 ais523: https://www.hardfought.org/devnull/ 12:30 ais523: Go there and it will tell you for your TZ. 12:30 we developed our clan tone by making fun of FPS clan-speak ca. 2000 12:31 Wow. That's soo long ago. 12:31 I only started to play NH in 2009. 12:31 Clan EIT formed in 2002 12:31 Mandevil: I am there, I can't see it 12:31 Mandevil: I am mainly comparing to junethack, which in terms of the games involved is no more noob-friendly than vanilla. 12:31 ais523: Ugh? 12:31 do I need to turn on JavaScript to get basic information like that? 12:31 ais523: Yes, there's live counter. 12:31 ah yes, it doesn't show at all without JS 12:31 But it seems to do a better job of being welcoming to all participants. 12:31 ais523: How else do you think the page would divine your TZ? 12:31 I'd expect it to degrade, at least give the time in UTC or something 12:32 (I live in UTC for half the year anyway) 12:32 ais523: I have JS disabled by default too. 12:32 we're so old, here I am talking trash on Usenet in 2003 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/OQbaof32ZMg/tUilPttReFgJ 12:32 ais523: But seriously, please don't ask me to think about progressive enhancement in an effort that had to have solid result in 6 weeks. 12:33 gamache: Yay, some NetHack history right there. 12:33 isn't it as simple as just setting some default text and having the JS overwrite it? 12:33 ais523: The tournament starts at midnight Pacific time. 12:33 i.e., California time. 12:33 jonadab: right 12:33 I currentely have the Los Angeles time zone in my clock anyway 12:34 together with New York 12:34 ais523: In principle, it is, but they're using a framework (called Dancer)... 12:34 [07nd] eitbo (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 187 points, T:423, killed by a water moccasin 12:34 ais523: It is simple. But I had hundreds of simple things to worry about and this kinda didn't make it. 12:34 LA time should be the same as tournament time. 12:34 American timezones are the most common ones that I need to translate from, apart from possibly CET/CEST 12:34 CET ftw 12:34 I mainly translate to/from UTC and Pacific. 12:35 _Occasionally_ Central. 12:35 Or BST. 12:35 stenno_: nethack4.org is physically in CET, and so all the log files, etc., come out in CET 12:35 And after that you're well into the long tail. 12:35 i translate from hong kong (whatever timezone that is) and currently from japan 12:35 but the sandbox used for the NetHack stuff itself uses UTC 12:35 and for actual games, you can set your own timezone in the options 12:35 Most people don't block JS anyway. 12:35 utc is most sensible 12:36 jonadab: I don't normally need to translate from BST, I'm more likely to translate /into/ it 12:36 And those get the time in their own timezone 12:36 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: sorry for my connection] 12:36 why would you disable javascript? slows the page down? 12:36 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 12:36 stenno_: Security. 12:36 although, I have my alarm clock permanently set to UTC 12:36 stenno_: Javascript makes most web pages on the internet worse. There are rare exceptions. 12:37 so I need to translate from BST into UTC when setting my alarm in summer 12:37 [07nd] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Neu) had Cleaver bestowed upon him by Chih Sung-tzu, on T:20644 12:37 jonadab: You're living in nineties. 12:37 can't remember when there were security problems with JS last 12:37 anyway, when are we planning to announce the tournament on Reddit? the instant it starts? just before? 12:37 ais523: My alarm clock is a feature of my computer, so it knows whether it's DST or not. 12:37 stenno_: panopticlick is a big one that's still ongoing 12:38 jonadab: I use a separate physical alarm clock as my computer wouldn't typically be on while I was asleep 12:38 ais523: It's been announced few times already. 12:38 Mandevil: I know 12:38 each week in the run up to the tournament 12:38 stenno_: It's not security, so much, as performance. If you've got 50 tabs open, and each of those pages is running a bunch of Javascript, your browser doesn't really work very well. 12:38 stenno_: there is that recent issue with sites using JS to mine cryptocurrencies with your CPU 12:38 yes 12:38 Dunno, I'm not the reddit master here. 12:38 My account is only 11 years old :) 12:39 aoslich: I don't get that, surely CPUs are sufficiently bad at cryptocurrency verification that you wouldn't get a meaningful amount of money from it? 12:39 Also, a lot of websites use Javascript to constantly change the content of the advertising sidebars. Which makes it impossible for a non-hyperactive person to actually read the page. 12:39 -!- HTTPS has joined #hardfought 12:39 ais523: depends on how many people you can serve your page and run the code on. 12:39 you can even do gpgpu in modern browsers 12:39 jonadab: There are ad blockers, you know? 12:39 actually TPB had a bitcoin miner 12:39 if it's sufficiently distributed, you get the same performance as seti@home and other things 12:39 still has, probably 12:40 [07nd] eitbo (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 410 points, T:632, killed by a jackal 12:40 Mandevil: philosophically, I would rather turn off the features that are annoying me, than block advertisements. I disable Javascript and don't have Flash installed. I don't care about advertisements that don't do that junk. 12:40 jonadab: oh, if I see an advertising bar on a page that requires JavaScript, I normally use "inspect element" to delete it 12:40 jonadab: Modern web is built on JavaScript. 12:40 because you just know it's going to do something ridiculous 12:40 jonadab: Nothing really works well without it. 12:40 actually, theory: the web would be much better off without the ability to do position:fixed 12:41 i.e. create something that stays in the same place as you scroll 12:41 Mandevil: in general, most of the web works just fine without Javascript. Or, most of the parts of it I'm interested in, anyway. 12:41 many uses of that are "legitimate" but still terrible, many others are for trying to force you to see adverts 12:41 -!- loli has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1] 12:41 i haven't really seen any ads since i use ublock 12:41 ^ 12:41 I do keep a collection of secondary web browsers around that I can use on pages that require js. 12:41 (and before that i used abp until they went shit) 12:42 jonadab: You cannot assume that what works for you works for everyone. 12:42 And I _very selectively_ enable js on pages that I know use it reasonably (i.e., it doesn't run when it shouldn't). 12:42 jonadab: That's the most annoying attitude I can imagine. 12:42 Mandevil: I do things the same way as jonadab here 12:42 it's probably the only way to stay sane 12:42 Mandevil: I'm defending myself here. YOu seem to be tellikng me that I need to turn on Javascript or else I am being bad. 12:45 I can say with certainty that reasonable web developers in 2017 do not care about users who block JS. 12:45 jonadab: No. 12:45 There are websites that I either enable JS for (because they use it very lightly, only in response to user actions) or use in a different browser that has JS enabled and then close the browser window whenever I'm not actively using it (typically because the site is doing something that actually _needs_ JS, e.g., Lang-8 is a good example). 12:45 jonadab: I have JS disabled by default myself. 12:45 But most sites that want me to enable JS, I just go find the same information or functionality on a different site. 12:45 jonadab: I'm just pointing out that saying things like "web would work better without JS" is disingenuous. 12:46 A lot of the web _does_ work better without js. 12:46 gamache: there are two definitions of "reasonable" here, i.e. is it reasonable to cater for a small minority? 12:46 I find browsers that have JS enabled to be unusable for general-purpose browsing. 12:46 also, wrt some subjects, I'm not even sure the minority is small 12:46 jonadab: This is pretty difficult to believe. 12:46 anecdote: i use NoScript everywhere and whitelist sites as they prove trustworthy; I have most ad domains explicitly blacklisted to ensure they don't accidentally arrive. I run uBlock Origin alongside it to make sure individual elements stay quiet 12:46 nethack4.org doesn't have JS because a) I don't like it, b) I reasoned that some other users of the website therefore wouldn't like it either 12:46 jonadab: My gf never blocks javascript and has hundreds of tabs open. 12:47 jonadab: Somehow her computer works just fine. 12:47 but yes, I've lost track of the number of websites that work better without JS than with 12:47 so many sites use it for something that actively degrades the user experience 12:47 whenever I whitelist a site, I slam the door on its ads with the element-picker feature 12:47 Mandevil: Well, every time I try to browse the web on a system with js enabled, I find I can't read web pages because their content is constantly changing. 12:47 jonadab: Maybe I just don't frequent such webs? 12:48 It's conceivable that ad blocking would be a potential substitute for disabling js. But most users don't block ads either, so I'm not sure that's relevant. 12:48 jonadab: I find US-based news sites extremely atrocious in that regards. 12:48 I mean, if you're reading most news sites or non-personal blogs, yes, JS will generally make them atrocious. 12:48 Mandevil: I'm talking about when I try to search for information on Google and click through to the content I'm looking for, which is usually technical in nature (because I'm an IT guy). 12:48 jonadab: a decent proportion of JS uselessness has nothing to do with ads 12:48 (although yes, most ads nowadays heavily depend on JS so blocking JS will block most ads as a side effect) 12:48 the next chrome will block autoplay videos by default 12:49 blocking HTML-only email had a good side effect of blocking a decent proportion of spam 12:49 autoplay is fundamentally an idea that only makes sense if the browser only supports having one page open at a time. Which is no modern browser. 12:49 [10fh] SP00KoftheNecroSP00Ker (Luxidream) (Tou Gno Fem Neu) became the Envoy of Balance, on T:20639 12:49 (to clarify, I have my email client set to display only the plain text portion of the email, if it's HTML-only it'll tell me about the existence of the email but not show any body text by default, there's a button I can press to display the HTML) 12:50 jonadab: what if the site waits for the tag to be focused first? 12:50 autoplay is a shit feature 12:50 and shouldn't have been in html specs 12:50 ais523: Maybe, but then it's really play-on-click, unless you use focus-follows-mouse tricks or something. 12:51 err, the tab 12:51 jonadab: no, I mean 12:51 [07nd] Eleven (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 1636 points, T:3780, killed by a killer bee, while fainted from lack of food 12:51 if someone loads the page into the current tab it plays immediately 12:51 Oh, the tab to be the foreground tab? 12:51 right 12:51 Hmm. 12:51 _Maybe_. 12:51 That's better than just playing it as soon as the page loads. 12:51 for a decently large proportion of users (probably over 50% nowadays) they don't use any programs other than a web browser 12:51 WHich is what YouTube _still_ does. 12:51 jonadab: That one is annoying. 12:52 so foreground tab is equivalent to focused program 12:52 jonadab: What's worse, if it's _your_ video, it will still register as a view! 12:52 ais523: Actually, I think the percentage of users who use specialized apps for their email is back on the rise. On phones. 12:52 For a while it was getting really low. 12:52 incidentally, does anyone here actually use focus-follows-mouse? it used to be very common but I can't get the hang of it 12:52 html emails are really a thing of the client 12:52 ais523: I do use it in Linux. 12:52 ais523: I've never liked it. 12:52 It used to be the default on almost all X11-based systems. 12:52 Mandevil: that's not necessarily bad, having a larger YouTube view counter is normally considered a good thing even if it's completely inaccurate 12:52 focus-follows-mouse 4 lyfe 12:53 Which is probably why it's called "X-mouse" in the Windows world. 12:53 (at least on any platform that supports it) 12:53 ais523: But I am interested in true statistics. 12:53 as it encourages more people to watch the video, and (if you're monetised) gets you more income 12:53 I never got it work well in Windows. 12:53 So I don't use it in Windows. 12:53 [07nd] eitbo (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 983 points, T:1829, killed by a hobgoblin, while fainted from lack of food 12:53 Whether ffm works in Windows depends on your video card driver, of all things. 12:53 Which makes no sense, but. 12:53 YouTube doesn't have an accurate way of counting statistics anyway 12:54 the entire platform is approximate, the devs admitted that they only care about making it look like it works than actually working 12:54 ais523: Lol! 12:54 so things like statistics can be approximate, fabricated, etc. 12:54 ais523: I am not very fond of YT. 12:54 ais523: But it has the people and the momentum, so what can you do? 12:54 it's like Reddit, although in their case they do have actual vote counts but the counts they show are fabricated in order to confuse spammers 12:54 With modern web, you can host videos yourself, but what's the point? 12:55 Mandevil: you need to take into account just how bad most video sites are 12:55 especially at the time of YouTube 12:55 like, when it started becoming popular 12:55 there is also the community aspect of youtube 12:55 its biggest competitors were absolutely terrible 12:55 I remember the original YouTube. 12:55 I don't say it's intrinsically bad. 12:55 Bud there are annoying things. 12:55 [08un] sullysully (Bar Vam Mal Cha), 24930 points, T:9749, killed by a gnome mummy, while fainted from lack of food 12:55 But 12:56 back then it was flash only, 240p only 12:56 Like being unable to control the quality of your videos. 12:56 stenno_: Yes! 12:56 stenno_: When it wasn't google even. 12:56 thank eris google is so progressive 12:56 yep 12:56 Mandevil: that is actually possible via complex indirect means, I think some people reverse engineered YouTube's quality selection algorithm 12:56 Fundamentally, a statistic on something like "how many times was this video watched" is necessarily going to be vague and approximate and, frankly, usually wrong. 12:56 stenno_: Google is trying to make the web not suck so that more people use it so that they get more ad revenue 12:56 ais523: You still cannot make YT to not reencode your video. 12:57 Because people don't watch videos an integer number of times, in practice, and also you don't actually have any way to know if a user is watching or not. 12:57 ais523: thats probably only half the truth 12:57 ais523: And there are videos that just will never look good on YT. 12:57 I know people who have a special encode process for youtube that does things like massively overstating the resolution, so that the youtube re-encode encodeds it how they want 12:57 also, youtube re-encoding makes sense given what some video encoders do 12:57 like putting no keyframes in the entire video 12:58 ais523: The recommended settings on YT are entirely bogus, for example. 12:58 They make no sense at all. 12:58 jonadab: you can probably tell if the video is focused on screen somehow, but you can't rely on the user necessarily being behind the screen 12:58 GOP size is totally nonsense. 12:59 ais523: You don't need to reply on that question. I guess the downtime earlier prevented its earlier delivery 12:59 although, was it the xbox which was looking into ways of seeing if people were actually watching adverts, and refusing to continue if they weren't? I don't think they implemented it but they were seeing if they could 12:59 (The one Beholder had from me that is) 12:59 FIQ: right, I gathered that 12:59 some of YouTube's competitors used to have adverts with captchas in 12:59 but I think they died out 12:59 ais523: Whether you can even tell whether the window is visible or not depends on the window manager. 12:59 I also use Vimeo. 12:59 But vimeo just doesn't have the same audience. 13:00 jonadab: well, OK, "focused" makes a decent substitute though 13:00 That doesn't mean Vimeo is bad. 13:01 ais523: youtube has started having interactive "ads" lately 13:01 sounds horrible 13:01 not exactly sure why, I think for the purpose of figuring out if people are actually paying attention 13:01 when I'm watching youtube and they experiment with a new sort of ad 13:01 I refresh the page 13:01 basically it asks "what have you seen an ad of lately? a, b, c, d, none of the above" 13:02 hoping to convince them that it's broken in either a technicalogical or user-interaction sense 13:02 err, technological? 13:02 ais523: I usually just keeps them going, mostly because I figured if people stop following their ads, they wouldn't host free content anymore 13:02 *keep 13:03 FIQ: someone else would start hosting it in that case, I imagine 13:04 aoslich │ Mandevil: I am mainly comparing to junethack, which in terms of the games involved is no more noob-friendly than vanilla. 13:04 I'd argue that NH4 + derivatives are more noob friendly than vanilla 13:05 FIQ: Yeah, I guess they are. 13:05 Because the worst hurdle to get over for new players is the archaic UI 13:05 FIQ: Yeah, I agree it's big hurdle. 13:06 FIQ: For some reason, DCSS is using pretty much similar controls and it doesn't seem to be much trouble. 13:06 And I remember when I was learning DCSS. 13:06 I actually made a cheat-sheet. 13:07 ais523: As for Reddit (reading backlog), I asked K2 earlier today if he considered making a reddit sticky 13:07 basically, making a reddit post and ask a mod to sticky it 13:08 Hoping that mod is actually around. 13:08 Which I don't think is the case. 13:08 just message the entire mod team 13:08 I nearly always get a fast response from someone, there's more than one 13:08 (by "message the entire mod team" I mean modmail, not sending them each a message individually) 13:08 whereismymind is AWOL for like a year now 13:08 or even longer 13:09 stenno_: right but I've had responses from the other mods in that time 13:09 And the other people I don't even have any idea who they are 13:09 wait ais523 I thought you were a reddit mod 13:09 aoslich: reddit doesn't work like that, there's a different mod list for each subreddit 13:09 I don't have any powers on r/nethack 13:09 If someone can get me a mod on NetHack, that would work as I am a long time reddit user and read it all the freaking time. 13:09 yes, I thought you were on the /r/nethack mod team 13:09 cryogen and skeeto are r/nethack mods, both have posted on Reddit recently 13:10 misremembered apparently 13:10 i think allihaveismymind was the only one who also went to freenode 13:10 -!- HTTPS has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10 not in r/nethack but modmail will alert them even if they don't read the subreddit specifically 13:13 -!- nht has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:13 [08un] sullysully (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 136 points, T:926, killed by a boulder 13:13 Mandevil: ais523 had a plausible theory: the reason dcss online is so much more widespread is webtiles 13:14 FIQ: Yes, I agree. 13:14 that and the way that the official website encourages online play over local (nethack.org is very much the other way round) 13:14 FIQ: Webtiles is a great idea. 13:14 ais523: I've tried to encourage RLdiscord people who want to try out NetHack to play on server 13:15 They generally reply in ways like "but I want tiles" 13:15 or similar 13:15 NetHack could really do with a tileset that's more newbie-friendly than ASCII is 13:15 it shouldn't be hard :-P 13:15 it would be cool to make a web-based "windowport" 13:15 but it seems to be in practice 13:15 both for NH3 and NH4 13:16 let me again express the idea of a json windowport 13:16 stenno_: This is what daniel_t had in mind I think 13:16 yes 13:16 NH3 fundamentally assumes that the game process is persistent 13:16 FIQ: yes, just the execution was terrible 13:16 but the nh4 interface is pretty terrible 13:16 basically he wanted to make a web player 13:16 lol 13:16 lol 13:16 I disagree :P 13:16 eer 13:16 nitrohack interface* 13:16 it's a bit funny to see 13:17 stenno_: you know, perhaps I should just remove all the NH4 features designed to cater for people who insist on the NH3 interface? people like you seem to not be happy no matter what I do so perhaps there's no point in trying 13:17 that the opinion most people in #nethack on IRC, etc, have about the NH4 UI 13:17 i looked into it quite a bit but back then it didn't build for osx so i didn't bother 13:17 "it's shit", etc 13:17 is the same opinion -- in reverse -- that RLdiscord has about NH3 13:17 FIQ: interface as in, API 13:17 Wait, are you talking about the *server* API? 13:18 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: sorry for my connection] 13:18 bye ais 13:18 the client-server API that talks with json, yes 13:18 stenno_: Ah, sorry 13:18 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 13:18 I haven't looked it into much 13:18 ugh, not a great time for by connection to break 13:18 Only when I tried to figure out how to add a new server command 13:18 I didn't succeed properly 13:18 reason it didn't build was basically because it used E_POLL 13:18 and osx has no epoll but something else that i forgot now 13:19 stenno_: OSX also has issues with NH4 save sharing 13:19 in similar ways 13:19 I wonder if it's the same reason 13:19 FIQ: if you're asking why watchmode and friends don't work on OSX, it's because it doesn't implement POSIX realtime signals 13:19 for some reason 13:19 ais523: Right, that 13:19 well if the issue is that it just doesn't work :P 13:20 Hm 13:20 Aside from format, there was another rather puzzling issue I had with servermode 13:20 i forgot the name of OSX's epoll alternative 13:20 kqueue its called ,right 13:20 http://home.fiq.se/sidebar.png 13:21 https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=kqueue&sektion=2 13:21 I never understood why this issue happened lol 13:21 whats the problem there, the large sidebar? 13:21 stenno_: Look at the header 13:21 oh 13:22 0/0 wgt 0/52 slots 13:22 yeah 13:22 -!- ais523 has quit [Client Quit] 13:22 Even more strangely, it does appear correctly in the inventory menu itself 13:34 [07nd] munterplant (Val Hum Fem Law) entered Gehennom, on T:24081 13:40 [10fh] SP00KoftheNecroSP00Ker (Luxidream) (Tou Gno Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fireproof ring of levitation", on T:25321 13:41 -!- HTTPS has joined #hardfought 13:43 stenno_: The NitroHack client/server API needs a major overhaul, yes; we are mainly waiting on someone who knows how to do that sort of thing to get the gumption. 13:43 * jonadab is definitely not up to that kind of overhaul yet. 13:43 [10fh] SP00KoftheNecroSP00Ker (Luxidream) (Tou Gno Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fireproof greased the orb of fate", on T:25434 13:43 I'm _just_ starting to get the hang of this C programming thing. 13:43 pff 13:58 [10fh] SP00KoftheNecroSP00Ker (Luxidream) (Tou Gno Fem Neu) wished for "uncursed fireproof burnt magic marker", on T:26331 14:11 [12slex] rikersan (Mon Ung Mal Cha), 40460 points, T:4821, killed by self-genocide 14:24 [10fh] SP00KoftheNecroSP00Ker (Luxidream) (Tou Gno Fem Neu) wished for "blessed fixed greased amulet of life saving", on T:28830 14:24 amulet too spooky 14:37 [10fh] SP00KoftheNecroSP00Ker (Luxidream) (Tou Gno Fem Neu) wished for "3 blessed potions of wonder", on T:30032 14:39 -!- spontiff has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40 -!- noty has joined #hardfought 14:46 -!- firemonkey has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:47 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:48 -!- firemonkey has joined #hardfought 14:54 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 14:54 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 14:57 [07nd] Eleven (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 1902 points, T:4742, killed by a bolt of lightning 15:29 [10fh] SP00KoftheNecroSP00Ker (Luxidream) (Tou Gno Fem Neu) performed the invocation, on T:34776 15:36 -!- card.freenode.net changed the topic on #hardfought to: Welcome to Hardfought - https://www.hardfought.org/ - public irc logs available on website ¤ Public NetHack server - ssh nethack@hardfought.org ¤ /dev/null/nethack tribute tournament starts Nov 1st!! - https://www.hardfought.org/devnull 15:36 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v NotTheOracle\dnt] by K2 15:44 -!- stenno_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:44 [10fh] SP00KoftheNecroSP00Ker (Luxidream) (Tou Gno Fem Neu) entered the Planes, on T:36195 15:45 -!- loli has joined #hardfought 15:46 [10fh] SP00KoftheNecroSP00Ker (Luxidream) (Tou Gno Fem Neu) reached the Astral Plane, on T:36343 15:48 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:49 -!- StinkyGreene has joined #hardfought 15:49 [10fh] SP00KoftheNecroSP00Ker (Luxidream) (Tou Gno Fem Neu), 245682 points, T:36397, ascended 15:49 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/fiqhack/dumplog/2017-10-31%2022%3A49%3A14%2C%20SP00KoftheNecroSP00Ker-Tou-Gno-Fem-Neu%2C%20ascended.txt 15:49 -!- HTTPS has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53 -!- greqrg has joined #hardfought 15:54 !tell K2 FIQHack updated 15:54 Will do, FIQ! 15:58 [08un] sullysully (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 33760 points, T:13016, killed by an ochre jelly 15:59 Am I the only one who ever killed themselves with finger of death due to "The magical energy is released!" when the previously cast spell was in . direction? Because I just died on the Plane of Earth that way. 16:06 LarienTelrunya: NH4 addresses this 16:06 (and derivatives) 16:06 really? how? 16:06 By cancelling the spell if you abort at the direction prompt 16:07 and what if it was a wand? 16:07 It wastes the charge 16:07 and also cancels it? 16:07 Yes 16:07 ah 16:07 The wand glows, then fades 16:07 I think wand behaviour might be vanilla actually, but not sure 16:08 yeah, that's what happens in slex too 16:09 Are you going to complain on this UI screw now for a year? 16:09 Because that is what you do with other variants 16:09 nah, I'm going to complain about it for one day and fix it tomorrow :P 16:11 you didnt have anyone else to kill on Earth? just askin' 16:11 well I wanted to zap Rodney but fatfingered on the spacebar, which cancelled the prompt and released it in the previous direction, which was at myself :/ 16:15 damn 16:15 Ive blasted myself that way but not fatally 16:15 -!- HTTPS has joined #hardfought 16:15 it would have been the 9th slex ascension :( 16:15 there are 8 others? 16:15 you should check if it really would be an asc 16:15 for science 16:16 slexcensions so far: neutral male illithid Scientist, chaotic female bastard Healer, neutral female doppelganger Monk, neutral male ironman Binder (wishless conduct!), neutral female ak Thief is dead! monk LostSoul, neutral female hemophage Korsair, chaotic male giant Foxhound Agent (polyselfless and genocideless conduct!) and chaotic female nordish Barbarian (genocideless conduct!) 16:16 FIQ: ? 16:16 LarienTelrunya: like 16:16 play the save locally 16:16 see if you would've ascended 16:16 but I don't have a unix system locally, and also not the exact version that's running on the server! 16:16 LarienTelrunya, are those all you? 16:16 firemonkey: yeah 16:17 and I have an astral splat one tile away from the high altar as a phantom ice mage *sadface* 16:17 isn't genocideless in slex basically recommended though? 16:17 astral death is the worst 16:17 doesn't it do something horrible to you? 16:17 s/it/genociding stuff/ 16:17 aoslich: in this game that I just lost, I genocided 146 species 16:18 the trick is to genocide annoying monsters *after* they were generated :D 16:18 so that's, what, one genocide scroll? :P 16:18 in this case I wiped out a whole bunch of semicolons on many levels with one blessed scroll, yeah 16:18 the scroll of universal genocide 16:18 How does geno work in slex that makes it dangerous? 16:18 greqrg: I don't know that it does. Just kind of thought it would be. 16:19 greqrg: well, every monster team has high-level monsters that cannot be genocided, and they become more frequent if many genocidable low-level monsters are gone 16:19 so many races, you might get yourself by accident? 16:19 greqrg: by the way, want to join HTTPS and me in the Fellowship for devnull? 16:19 play slex extinctionist 16:19 Oh, so it's similar to genociding many Nasties in vanilla. sort of 16:19 LarienTelrunya: 16:19 well geonciding yourself can happen if you're not careful ;) 16:20 aoslich: I've pledged my soul to OotC for the next 30 days 16:20 your soul 16:20 Nice holiday name btw :) 16:21 is ours 16:21 I'm moving in two weeks and have some other stuff going on so I'm not entirely sure what I'll accomplish yet 16:21 greqrg, noy seeing you on the clan list 16:21 Yeah I need to join tonight still, thanks for the reminder :P 16:22 :) 16:22 -!- Spooxidrem has joined #hardfought 16:23 [08un] sullysully (Ran Elf Fem Cha), 209 points, T:590, killed by the ghost of Blinky 16:24 -!- elron has quit [Client Quit] 16:24 greqrg: how many invites did you get 16:25 -!- elron has joined #hardfought 16:25 -!- firemonkey has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:25 -!- firemonkey2 has joined #hardfought 16:25 enron 16:25 FIQ: I'll let you know once I manage to log back into my account :P 16:25 what is wrong 16:27 I just don't use hardfought much (sorry! the truth is I don't play nethack much nowadays ;) ) and have to remember my password 16:28 ah 16:28 that is fair 16:30 aoslich: I don't think there is anything that would prevet normal clan members to invite other players in junethack. i'll jot it down as possible change 16:34 FIQ: Just one invite through the site 16:36 I find it amusing that there's an 'eit' clan for devnull 16:36 all of the users have 'eit' in their names 16:36 except for 'larry' 16:39 only 41 players? 16:39 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: I will get a 9th slexcension one day!] 16:39 bhaak: I envision "anyone can invite, but admin has veto power" (not that I expect admins to use it) 16:40 how many players have there been in the past? 16:41 100+ every year 16:44 or is that just the number of people in clans? 16:46 Spooxidrem: technically anyone who's ever registered a hardfought account is a potential player 16:47 someone could have been inactive for years and come back tomorrow and be a competitor 16:47 I guess we won't know the number until it starts, then 16:47 until it ends, actually 16:47 !whereis 16:47 Spooxidrem: rikersan [12slex] Luxidream [10fh] 16:48 [12slex] rikersan (Wan Ang Mal Cha), 0 points, T:8, killed by a monster (chasm viper) 16:49 I see slex is still fair 16:53 jonadab: you know how you commented about the Planes something along the lines of "Hunt for the Magic Square already exists with the vibrating square level, and isn't compelling enough to be repeated"? 16:53 !tell LarienTelrunya If you can't ascend at least a quarter of the roles the game has, it's like you're not even trying. 16:53 Will do, jonadab! 16:53 Just realized that most of Gehennom is basically the same thing. 16:54 Eh, my compulsion to fully explore levels prevents me from seeing Gehennom that way. 16:55 Not that Gehennom is the most exciting area to explore in the whole game. 16:55 BTW, jonadab: I found a pair of boots named after you in slex :p 16:55 "jonadab's winter wear", decreases charisma but good AC 16:55 I see. 16:55 Could be worse. 16:56 how far have you gotten in slex reapersan 16:57 also, I think sparkling potion appearance is nonrandom 16:58 but it's slex, so I could be horribly wrong 16:58 spooxidream: pretty far 16:59 spooxidream: yeah it's not in dnh either, but I had nothing to lose by quaff-id'ing if I was right 16:59 EPI: items whose appearance doesn't normally get shuffled, _can_ get shuffled in like 0.01% of all games. 16:59 iirc my best is to lvl 10 of hte main dungeon after clearing the entire mines 16:59 though I've got a annoying bones left on the bottom of them now, a undead player monster w/ +3 SDSM 17:00 YASI: also, the game clearly needs about 50 more different types of polearms, with nearly-but-not-quite identical stats. 17:00 I've always wondered why there are so many 17:00 ... and why no vanilla class can get expert in them? 17:01 except knights 17:01 reapersan: knights can only get Skilled in polearms. 17:01 (Expert in lance, but that's its own skill. Because of course it is.) 17:02 ah ok 17:02 maybe valk then? 17:02 Don't think so. 17:02 what the fuck slex 17:02 grid bug just killed my best wand 17:02 wand of charging 17:02 I think the only role that can get expert in polearms is Yeoman, and that's Slashem-specific. 17:02 dont play slex 17:02 reapersan: slex is just like that. 17:02 unless you want to go insane 17:02 ^ 17:02 welp I'm dead anyway 17:03 firemonkey2: it is fun though 17:03 insane, dead, what's the difference? 17:03 "fun" 17:03 its psychedelic I'll give it that 17:03 nvm I'm good 17:03 gotta love slex's shades 17:04 Amy has actually ascended 8 times and splatted 2 in the planes 17:04 nobody else is close 17:04 Yes, but she's the developer. So she knows Every Single Thing about the game. 17:04 If nobody else can ascend it, I continue to consider it effectively unplayable. 17:04 one was a lostsoul, so thats a cheat 17:04 jonadab: not quite ;P 17:04 I mean, she was looking stuff up herself last game 17:05 Ok, yes, but you know what I mean. 17:05 ya 17:05 Just because she can play it doesn't mean anybody else can. 17:05 how would you know everything in slex by heart, even if you made it 17:05 its good for racking up unique deaths in junethack 17:06 And while it may technically be ascendable, I bet it's _not_ technically streakable. By anyone. 17:06 its not 17:06 streakable? 17:07 there are any number of random items that are denied generation EVERY GAME, can be unicorn horns, scrolls of ID, whatever 17:07 yes 17:07 not generally a problem though 17:08 with the random ID resistance and so many trap items, you have to chance it 17:08 I mean 17:08 you start with scrolls of ID 17:08 use them to check BUC of things that are good 17:08 and don't wear enchanted things 17:08 how far have you got? 17:09 :) 17:09 level 13 iirc, main dungeon, cleared the mines 17:09 I also had a good one on em.slashem earlieer 17:09 I actually like playing Arc Rod in slex - can dig out of trouble and Rod is supertough 17:10 [114k] sullysully (Wiz Syl Fem Cha), 2112 points, T:805, killed by a gas spore's explosion 17:12 firemonkey: angels are the best race though, intrinsic MR, flying, extra vision 17:13 -!- reapersan has quit [Quit: welp night y'all, get well soon grasshopper] 17:22 -!- HTTPS has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23 -!- HTTPS has joined #hardfought 17:27 -!- HTTPS has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:29 -!- reapersan has joined #hardfought 17:32 is cogmind worth buying for that price? 17:33 the game looks really cool 17:33 but my wallet hurts thinking about a roguelike that isn't free 17:34 just wait 20 years for OpenCogmind 17:36 -!- loli has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:37 gotta love slex: special room with fuckton of 'o' and 'O' 17:38 [12slex] rikersan (Wan Ang Mal Cha), 9331 points, T:3014, killed by an orcish arrow 17:42 -!- hothraxxa has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:43 -!- hothraxxa has joined #hardfought 17:43 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v hothraxxa] by ChanServ 17:47 [12slex] rikersan (Dea Ang Mal Cha) averted death, on T:1438 17:48 -!- Grasshopper has joined #hardfought 17:48 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Grasshopper] by ChanServ 17:49 !time 17:49 Grasshopper: Tue Oct 31 20:49:00 2017 EDT 17:50 -!- Eleven has joined #hardfought 17:52 &time 17:52 The time is 17:52:02(PDT) on Tuesday, October 31, 2017 17:52 The time remaining until the 2017 Tournament begins is '00-00-00:06-07-57' 17:52 -!- loli has joined #hardfought 17:53 better :D 17:54 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 17:54 -!- stenno is now known as Guest95243 17:59 [12slex] rikersan (Dea Ang Mal Cha), 11092 points, T:2818, killed by a shotgun shell 18:04 -!- Tarmunora has joined #hardfought 18:07 -!- Spookunora has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:14 !time 18:14 Tangles: Tue Oct 31 21:14:09 2017 EDT 18:14 easier than calculating K2's timezone. 18:15 heh 18:15 K2: Message from FIQ at 2017-10-31 18:54 EDT: FIQHack updated 18:17 5 hrs 43 min! 18:18 FIQhack updated 18:21 [07nd] dgoddard (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 109342 points, T:22660, killed by a frost giant 18:21 nooo 18:21 !lastgame 18:21 K2: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dgoddard/nhdev/dumplog/1509371715.nhdev.txt 18:22 damn 18:24 [07nd] Eleven (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 802 points, T:2611, killed by a gnome lord, while sleeping off a magical draught 18:28 !lastgame 18:28 Spooxidrem: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/E/Eleven/nhdev/dumplog/1509497074.nhdev.txt 18:54 -!- Spooxidrem has quit [Quit: *poof*] 18:56 -!- Haudegen has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57 alrighty 18:57 gonna catch some zzz's 18:57 then be back a lil bit before the tourney starts 18:58 * aoslich reverse genocides zruties around K2 19:02 -!- captain42 has quit [Quit: drank too much rum and fell overboard] 19:07 [07nd] Eleven (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 1702 points, T:2878, killed by a centipede 19:10 -!- captain42 has joined #hardfought 19:13 hohum 19:13 moment of truth 19:13 yes, grandmaster robe's still there! 19:14 -!- Ninetale has joined #hardfought 19:14 thank you team splat 19:15 now 19:15 what do I wish for next... 19:15 hmm, if I have shk charge my wand I will lose fafnir binding :p 19:18 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:19 -!- HTTPS has joined #hardfought 19:19 porkman: why would it/ 19:19 his taboo is 0 gp, you can still have 1 left 19:20 -!- reapersan has quit [Quit: welp night y'all, get well soon grasshopper] 19:21 if you premium charge a wand of wishing, you first pay 3000, and then he takes all visible remaining gold 19:21 used void chime, so lost a level but kept the spirit bound 19:21 also, I think I found another bug in dnethack 19:21 I now have perma-injured leg 19:23 -!- HTTPS has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:24 so, 5 wishes 19:24 shall I chance them on yet another artifact... 19:28 [07nd] spork (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 5682 points, T:7117, killed by a chameleon imitating a soldier ant 19:29 [13dnh] rikersan (Con Inc Mal Cha), 116 points, T:180, killed by falling downstairs 19:31 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 19:31 lol 19:31 wield the ball 19:34 [07nd] Rx (Hea Gno Mal Neu), 240 points, T:279, killed by a sewer rat 19:35 -!- Eleven has left #hardfought 19:40 [07nd] Eleven (Wiz Hum Fem Neu), 168 points, T:500, killed by a falling rock 19:56 -!- bug_sniper has joined #hardfought 19:59 -!- tacco| has quit [] 20:03 -!- greqrg has quit [Quit: Disconnected] 20:35 [114k] sullysully (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 7989 points, T:1636, killed by a blood pudding 20:59 [114k] sullysully (Bar Gia Mal Cha), 9870 points, T:6869, killed by a large dog 21:02 [114k] sullysully (Bar Gia Mal Cha), 750 points, T:323, killed by a system shock 21:08 [114k] sullysully (Bar Gia Mal Cha), 3249 points, T:1791, quit 21:11 -!- mcnick has joined #hardfought 21:16 [10fh] minehack (Luxidream) (Arc Dwa Mal Law) became the Hand of Elbereth, on T:19636 21:19 -!- Tarmunora is now known as SPOOKIESTarmunor 21:20 -!- aoslich is now known as aosdict 21:23 jonadab: working on some simple algorithms to randomize the scroll-label-length thing, would be interested to discuss with you (not now though, bed now) 21:25 -!- elron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:32 [114k] sullysully (Rog Elf Fem Cha), 3255 points, T:939, killed by a large mimic 21:40 Sadly, Halloween is drawing to a close, and the time for spooky names is over 21:40 -!- SPOOKIESTarmunor is now known as Tarmunora 21:43 -!- Grasshopper has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:48 [114k] sullysully (Rog Elf Mal Cha), 6159 points, T:2149, killed by a dwarf 21:57 -!- mcnick has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:06 -!- Guest95243 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:15 -!- mcnick has joined #hardfought 22:28 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 22:28 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 22:33 [10fh] minehack (Luxidream) (Arc Dwa Mal Law) wished for "blessed wand of polymorph", on T:27573 22:35 [10fh] minehack (Luxidream) (Arc Dwa Mal Law) wished for "blessed magic marker", on T:27674 22:40 [10fh] minehack (Luxidream) (Arc Dwa Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed greased +2 speed boots", on T:27786 22:42 [10fh] minehack (Luxidream) (Arc Dwa Mal Law) wished for "uncursed fireproof magic marker", on T:27802 22:46 -!- stenno has joined #hardfought 22:46 -!- stenno is now known as Guest29139 22:57 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 22:57 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 23:04 -!- Guest29139 has quit [Changing host] 23:04 -!- Guest29139 has joined #hardfought 23:04 -!- Guest29139 is now known as stenno 23:19 [10fh] minehack (Luxidream) (Arc Dwa Mal Law) wished for "7 blessed tallow candles", on T:31749 23:36 [10fh] minehack (Luxidream) (Arc Dwa Mal Law) performed the invocation, on T:33684 23:37 -!- StatueSurfer has joined #hardfought 23:45 how do i join a clan for dev/null? 23:47 hi 23:47 Hello K2, Welcome to #hardfought 23:47 StatueSurfer you'd either need to be invited by an existing clan or start one of your own 23:47 okay thank you 23:48 if there are any pending invites, you'll see them when you go to the clan management page of the tourney website 23:48 yw 23:48 [10fh] minehack (Luxidream) (Arc Dwa Mal Law) entered the Planes, on T:35313 23:48 -!- gram-gram has joined #hardfought 23:50 can 3.6 nethack ask you for a character name when you make your character? 23:50 StatueSurfer: if you want to join a clan you could ask in #devnull_nethack if anyone wants members 23:51 alright 23:51 [10fh] minehack (Luxidream) (Arc Dwa Mal Law) reached the Astral Plane, on T:35535 23:51 clan teamsplat dont need any new member? 23:52 gram-gram: for server-based play, you just get the name of the account you signed up with 23:53 7 minutes left. I'll repeat the PSA I made on the other channel... if the server says it's closed, it won't open until you disconnect and reconnect. 23:54 [10fh] minehack_ now for PS4 (Luxidream) (Arc Dwa Mal Law), 239264 points, T:35627, ascended 23:54 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/fiqhack/dumplog/2017-11-01%2006%3A54%3A22%2C%20minehack%3A%20now%20for%20PS4-Arc-Dwa-Mal-Law%2C%20ascended.txt 23:55 nice one luxidream. Just got it out of the way in time for the tourney! 23:55 Ninetale: teamsplat is not recruiting this year... it's big already and we want lots of strong clans :) 23:56 but there are some that I think have asked for new members... also bearing in mind that some of the clan leaders won't necessarily be awake yet, depending on timezone 23:56 but you can play anyway and join a clan later 23:58 indeed. Any progress you make now will be counted towards any clan that you join later.... 23:58 so play well, and they will seek you out :)