00:00 DIED: khamul (Sam-Hum-Mal-Law), 12036 points, killed by a lynx on hdf-eu 00:01 can I be a pope instead of a peep 00:01 But you asked to not be a peep 00:02 can I be a peep-toe? :D 00:02 a pope is not a peep 00:02 so can I be a pope? 00:03 You can be whatever, but that doesn't change khors greet. 00:03 khoR_: can you call me a pope? Or at least a pepe? 00:04 You can be whatever you want Elronnd, follow your dreams. 00:04 And I don't know what a peep-toe is, but it sounds bad. 00:05 lol 00:05 can I be a pope? 00:05 LarienTelrunya: you should add a pope to slex 00:05 * Elronnd polymorphs into a pope 00:05 If you follow your dreams, yes. 00:05 @le?pope 00:05 pope (14,01h) | Lvl: 16 | Diff: 20 | Spd: 12 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 70 | Generates: special | AC: 3 | Attacks: 2d15 touch physical, 5d5 cast clerical | Alignment: 4 | Flags: genocidable, omnivore, infravisible 00:05 -!- Elronnd is now known as Pope 00:05 loll 00:05 can the player be a pope? 00:05 @le?egyptian pope 00:05 egyptian pope (04,01h) | Lvl: 36 | Diff: 42 | Spd: 18 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 100 | Generates: special | AC: -6 | Attacks: 2d36 touch physical, 8d10 cast clerical | Alignment: 4 | Flags: genocidable, omnivore, nopoly, infravisible 00:05 well, you can polymorph into a pope 00:05 @d?asmodeus 00:05 Asmodeus (06,01&) | Lvl: 99 | Diff: 56 | Spd: 12 | Res: fire cold poison petrification drain | Confers: nothing | MR: 99 | Generates: unique | AC: -99 | Attacks: 9d1 weapon physical, 9d1 weapon physical, 9d9 cast clerical, 9d9 cast fire, 9d9 cast cold, 0d0 passive asmodeus-blood | Alignment: 20 | Flags: flies, seeinvis, poisonous, nopoly, demon, stalker, 00:05 covetous, infravisible 00:09 LarienTelrunya, can you really since his level is higher than 30? 00:09 the egyptian pope doesn't work, but the normal pope is only 16 00:12 wtf? For some reason ^^ highlighted me 00:12 even though there was no elronnd in it 00:12 wait no I'm a pope -- that's why 00:12 -!- Pope is now known as Elronnd 00:13 @le?Elronnd 00:13 No such monster. 00:13 @le?earenndil 00:13 earenndil ~1~ Earendil (06,01@) | Lvl: 20 | Diff: 22 | Spd: 12 | Res: sleep | Confers: sleep | MR: 50 | Generates: unique | AC: 0 | Attacks: 1d8 weapon physical | Alignment: 20 | Flags: omnivore, seeinvis, nopoly, infravisible 00:13 LarienTelrunya: Is the phasing race still a thing? 00:14 khoR_: you mean the spirit, sure, roles and races don't ever get taken out of slex, of course it's still there 00:14 Why do people not pick that race, archeologist and dig down to the castle and use the wand 00:14 although knowing slex theres probably no wand in the castle 00:14 or its drained 00:15 or surrounded by instakill traps 00:15 or both 00:15 sometimes it generates cancelled 00:15 or rarely, wands of wishing may not exist in the entire game 00:16 not sure why players aren't doing that; I think I've seen the spirit being picked only once or twice over the course of this year 00:16 it used to be that everyone was playing spirit arcs, but not anymore it seems 00:17 angel is generally seen as the OP race in the current slex version though, many players consider it their favorite 00:21 Does elbereth not worht in slth or waht 00:21 xD 00:21 ??slth 00:22 is that slashem lethe? 00:22 em 00:22 slex 00:22 whatever 00:22 the shitty variant 00:22 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 00:22 "slth" is slashthem :D 00:22 wait 00:22 how is the floor too hard to dig 00:22 in the main dungeon 00:22 wat 00:22 maybe this level somehow has undiggable floor? 00:22 oh 00:22 or maybe just the areas "out of bounds" are undiggable 00:22 khoR_, because we poured concrete all over the floor 00:22 part of it is undiggable 00:22 and part isnt 00:22 makes total sense 00:23 anyway, Elbereth "sometimes works" in slex, it's no guaranteed protection, and boss monsters are immune 00:23 the higher a monster's level, the more resistant it is 00:24 I would have preferred a more clever nerf, like a monster spell that makes your elbereth blow up 00:24 oh, there are monsters that can erase Elbereths 00:24 I dont even know what is happening 00:24 xD 00:24 along with gremlins that engrave owlbreath to scare away your engraving 00:25 also, the castle is on dungeon level 40, good luck getting there in one piece 00:26 of course it is 00:26 I was thinking that if you try to elbereth rodney, he should use your engraving against you and imprison you on your engraving 00:30 [12slex] Khor (Arc Esp Mal Cha), 12170 points, T:1294, killed by a monster (giant crab) 00:30 Well medusa level first try 00:30 not bad 00:31 @le?giant crab 00:31 giant crab (03,01;) | Lvl: 7 | Diff: 9 | Spd: 12 | Res: none | Confers: nothing | MR: 0 | Generates: special | AC: 0 | Attacks: 3d6 claw physical, 3d6 claw physical | Alignment: 0 | Flags: genocidable, swims, amphibious, oviparous, vegetarian 00:32 of course you can also play in lost soul mode, where you directly start on Medusa's level: OPTIONS=lostsoul 00:32 Of course you can 00:32 why wouldnt you 00:32 xD 00:33 or uberlostsoul, where you start at invocation depth 00:33 then it's only a few levels down to the castle! 00:39 DIED: nht (Tou-Hum-Mal-Neu), 1715 points, killed by a rothe on hdf-eu 00:48 well I started in a room full of monsters 00:48 I dont think I can survive one turn in this mode 00:48 xD 00:48 rip 00:48 oh nvm 00:48 im a genius 00:48 ah you found out you start on the upstair :D 00:48 how do I set 00:48 the numpad option thingy 00:49 OPTIONS=number_pad:2 00:49 OPTIONS=numpad:1? 00:49 1 or 2 (the latter is dos compatible, whatever that means) 00:50 I cant really dig my way to the castle if all the level is water and/or monsters 00:51 there are several variants of the medusa level; one of them (the one you got) has a monster-filled entrance room 00:51 [12slex] Khor (Arc Esp Mal Cha), 11750 points, T:84, killed by a monster (pale white shark) 00:51 some of the other versions are easier to dig down 00:52 [12slex] Khor (Arc Esp Fem Cha), 11950 points, T:36, killed by a monster (wereeel) 00:52 [12slex] Khor (Arc Esp Mal Neu), 11850 points, T:3, quit 00:52 [12slex] Khor (Arc Esp Mal Neu), 11850 points, T:7, killed by a monster (giant crab) 00:53 [12slex] Khor (Arc Esp Fem Neu), 11800 points, T:2, killed by a boulder 00:54 ok so 00:54 is this the castle 00:54 there are many castle variants; I guess this is one of the new ones 00:55 specifically, it is jonadab's garden of temptation, which has no wand of wishing and only a submerged magic lamp 00:55 Of course, what else. 00:57 [12slex] Khor (Arc Esp Mal Law), 11953 points, T:176, killed by a monster (kroncopotaca) 01:20 [07nd] Raisse (Arc Dwa Fem Law) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3149 01:39 DIED: nht (Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha), 19639 points, killed by a death ray on hdf-eu 01:42 ...in xorn form after grabbing the castle wand 01:50 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 01:50 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 02:21 nht: sometimes the rng doesn't want you to win 02:29 &time 02:29 The time is 02:29:33(PDT) on Thursday, October 19, 2017 02:29 The tournament starts in 12 days, 21:30:26. 02:29 ugh 02:29 !time 02:29 Tangles: Thu Oct 19 05:29:38 2017 EDT 02:29 Hmm too early for K2 probably. 02:34 [07nd] elagabalus (Pri Hum Fem Neu), 1156 points, T:2442, killed by a dwarf 02:46 im having surprising weight problems 02:46 considering I have GoP and blessed boh 02:47 oh well, time to splat on the castle 02:53 -!- Haudegen has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01 !whereis khor 03:01 Tangles: Khor [10fh]: No details available 03:05 [07nd] elagabalus (Pri Hum Fem Neu), 1283 points, T:1839, killed by a rothe 03:06 Tangles: Im playing FIQH and I just finished the quest and used all my supplies to "power up" 03:06 FIQH and the bot don't seemto be friends. 03:08 Dagger of mercy? 03:08 hahaha 03:08 you don't want that. 03:08 Mercy: autocurses and converts damage to healing, healing the opponent the equal amount as it would otherwise have damaged 03:09 🤔 03:09 Can you wack your pets to heal them? 03:09 01F914? I should look that up. 03:09 hm? 03:10 That's how your emoji(?) appeared on my terminal. 03:10 I'm guessing yes, you can heal your pets with it, but you need to be able to deal with the auto-cursing. 03:11 Note to self: Don't use emojis in IRC 03:12 01F914 is the thinking face :) 03:12 yes! 03:13 I googled it. Probably should've turned on an ad-blocker before clicking any of the links though. 03:14 ...and yeah I don't know why the bot is not livelogging fiqhack. It probably just needs a kick 03:15 He is not calling out my glorious achievements. 03:15 :( 03:15 !tell k2 Message from Beholder: Kick meeeeee!! 03:15 Will do, Tangles! 03:15 Evil Patch idea: killing Rodney causes artificial background latency for the remaining game. And the latency gets worse and worse every time Rodney resurrects. 03:16 Why use artificial latency? Just route the packets via my ADSL connection. 03:16 Oh wait... I already do that :P 03:18 !tell k2 ...also might be worth having a quick look at Beholder's log to see why it's not getting the fh livelog. 03:18 Will do, Tangles! 03:18 EPI: When you jump down holes and trapdoors there is a chance the hole is big enough for you and you get stuck. 03:18 I think that can actually happen if you play as a giant in some variants. 03:19 racist 03:19 though I think rather than getting stuck, you get the option to wiggle through, or not fall. So it's not actually evil. 03:20 Maybe if you spend too much time satiated you can no longer fit through holes. 03:20 or those narrow squeeze points. 03:21 I had a idea that got implemented into dnh that is actually the exact oposite 03:21 :P 03:22 Evil Patch idea: your character can contract obesity or anorexia, if you eat too much/little. Obesity means instant death when the hunger meter reaches "Hungry", anorexia means you vomit every time you eat and get penalized with bad effects, especially when satiated. 03:25 You need a long period of time to develop such illnesses 03:25 I dont think it would be realistic 03:26 well, in nethack you can eat a tiger whole and then be hungry again a few minutes after, so... 03:26 EPI: obesity, which results from being satiated too much, gives you a small percentage chance each turn of dropping dead from a heart attack. 03:26 jonadab: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2017-10-19 01:57 EDT: yeah, pinobot's last update was before the script-generated monsters got added 03:26 You should run your YAML generator again then. 03:26 what? I'm not aware of having a YAML generator... 03:27 Oh. 03:27 How does Pinobot get YAML for your variant then? 03:27 well, Adeon occasionally updates it 03:28 Fourk generates the YAML in spoiler.c when someone uses the #spoilers command in debug/wizard mode. 03:28 it takes a bunch of *bundlebundlebundle* to get Adeon to actually do that, though 03:28 Didn't he say he lost half his soul last time? 03:29 Heh, you should take a look at his commit messages whenever he updates it for the slex monsters, which range from "This was about as fun as hitting my head on a brick wall repeatedly" to "Update SLEX monsters. I want to die." 03:29 Anyone here that could advice me on wishes? 03:30 https://github.com/UnNetHack/pinobot/commits/master 03:32 LarienTelrunya: Yes I have seen that commit message :) 03:33 khoR_: I can give wish advice for 3.4, 3.6, NH4, Fourk, or maybe FIQHack. Possibly for GruntHack. 03:33 Im in FIQH := 03:33 :) 03:33 Ah. What race/role. 03:34 And are we talking early game one wish, or Castle wand, or what? 03:34 castle wand 03:34 you can spectate me 03:34 FIQHack wishing is _mostly_ pretty similar to vanilla, but there might be some caveats due to things like wand balance. 03:34 im human priest 03:34 yeah but I havent played nethack for months 03:34 I dont remember most of the game 03:34 xd 03:34 Oh, priest, hmm. 03:35 Castle wand, and you're doing the quest now? 03:35 Or is that Rogue level? 03:35 ye 03:36 no 03:36 I already done the quest 03:36 Ok. 03:36 im omw down to the castle 03:36 So you have, hmm, priest quest artifact in FIQHack is still the Mitre, isn't it? 03:36 yes 03:37 One notable thing about FIQHack wishing is that most colors of DSM have additional properties, e.g., orange grants free action as well as sleep res. 03:37 hi 03:37 Hello FIQ, Welcome to #hardfought 03:37 I already have dsm 03:37 thats my equipment 03:37 oh hey FIQ 03:37 just in time :] 03:37 Ah, blue DSM, right. 03:37 maybe I could get better boots 03:37 since blue already gives me speed 03:37 is there betterboots tho 03:37 ? 03:37 Is there flying boots here like in dnh 03:37 I loved those 03:38 No flying boots in fh. Water walking? Jumping? 03:38 Water walking I guess 03:38 I already have jumping 03:38 butI find jumping useless 03:38 never looked too much into it 03:38 In principle, I think jumping is useful, but in practice I never remember to use it. 03:39 khoR_: in fiqhack, the mitre if worn allows you to rpay inside gehennom 03:39 which can be used to #turn 03:39 #turn is useless anyway 03:39 not really 03:39 FIQ: did you change #turn to ever be a good idea to do? 03:39 only seems useful against monsters you already oneshot with your weapon anyway 03:39 highlevel turn is great 03:39 jonadab: it scales with XL 03:39 and you can turn stuff like liches when highlevel 03:40 this is the same as vanilla 03:40 fiqhack also scale helplessness duration with level 03:40 but half damage from demons is to valuable to pass 03:40 at xl30, it's just 1 action 03:41 Im not gonna get anywhere near xl30 03:42 fiqhack changes the xp curve 03:43 what does create familiar evendo 03:43 is it useful? 03:43 not really 03:43 it creates pets 03:44 !tell ais523 Gaelan popped into #nethack4 earlier and requested a password reset. 03:44 Will do, jonadab! 03:44 is that even possible 03:44 in the NH4 server interface 03:45 I assume so. 03:45 hmm 03:45 Though I don't know whether ais has contact info to send him the new one. 03:45 apparently the NH4 fuzzer crashed tonight 03:46 took a while though 03:46 ok 275879 - levelteleport,"?",genesis,"monsndx #276",wish,"Z - otyp #135",kick,wear,wield,fight,fight,cast,zap,re] 03:46 Segmenteringsfel (minnesutskrift skapad) 03:46 [07nd] Eleven (Rog Hum Fem Cha) made her first wish - "blessed greased +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:1408 03:47 YASI: if the player is hit by an attack that drains mana and it would drain them below 0 max mana, it will drain maximum HP instead. 03:47 oh lol 03:47 this is what an energy vortex do in 3.6 03:47 this soldier with agravate monster iscool 03:48 LarienTelrunya: EPI: if the player is hit by an attack that drains Pw, and it would drain current Pw below half of max Pw, it drains max HP instead. 03:49 seems like it failed on 3 occasions before that without a crash 03:49 (so impossible/panic) 03:49 [2050][fiq@fiq-desktop ~/fiqhack/build/testbench/src/testmain.c]$ ls nethack4-testsuite-yMStYg/ 03:49 livelog logfile paniclog testcase-115678.nhgame testcase-233580.nhgame testcase-76454.nhgame xlogfile 03:50 FIQ: 3.6 source code says it only drains Pw though 03:50 [07nd] Eleven (Rog Hum Fem Cha) wished for "blessed amulet of reflection", on T:1419 03:50 that is what you meant, no? 03:50 nethack has no "mana" 03:50 this isn't ADOM 03:51 mana is Pw 03:51 Unless it's lembas. 03:52 FIQ: well I meant the drain_en function, which reduces max Pw; my proposal is that if a character already has 0 max Pw, it would drain HP instead 03:52 oh I misread 03:52 ok 03:53 LarienTelrunya: you should port 3.6 vampires 03:54 why? I consider them actionism :P 03:54 you consider them what? 03:54 YASI: when a werewolf changes into a wolf, and then gets killed in wolf form, it can revert to a vampire, since vampires also change into wolves. 03:54 jonadab: lol 03:54 a vampire werewolf 03:55 FIQ: I consider the idea not very well thought out and it feels slapped on to me, kind of like it was implemented for the sake of implementing it, not because it would have a desireable effect. Plus, it's annoying to have to kill every other monster on the valley twice. 03:55 LarienTelrunya: SO basically like every single feature in Slash'EM? 03:55 Also, I don't think I ever saw a 3.6.0 vampire in their natural form. They were all fog clouds, wolves and stuff. 03:56 jonadab: :D 03:56 "Let's implement sheep." "What desirable effect would that have on the game?" "Umm, there'd be sheep!" 03:57 "Let's implement an inventorylessness trap." "What desirable effect would that have on the game?" "Umm, I could giggle silently while watching a player curse at the screen!" 03:57 I'm willing to give Slash'em a pass on chickens, because vanilla already has their eggs. 03:58 But sheep? Really? 04:01 I consider shapeshifting vampire much more interesting than, say, a zruty 04:03 Well, zruty isn't a good comparison, because that's a feature I actually removed from Fourk. 04:03 But when I weigh the advantages of vampshifting against the disadvantages, it's not at this time something I really want to cherry-pick into Fourk. 04:04 Maybe with some refinements, but I'm not sure what they'd be. 04:04 Perhaps when a vampire shapeshifts or reverts, its current HP in the form is a similar proportion to max HP, as it was in the previous form? 04:05 That has the "if you kill it as a bat it's dead" problem. 04:09 Maybe make them unable to shapeshift (away from natural form) if at less than half HP? 04:10 Dunno. 04:10 They need work, anyway. 04:10 And V aren't terrible as they stand, so it's not a high priority. 04:10 I'm much more interested in fixing mummies to not be so boring I want to remove them from the game. 04:10 Have ideas for that. 04:11 EPI for spicing up mummies: where zombies got attacks that make you deathly sick, mummies have attacks that polymorph you into undead creatures. 04:12 Preferably ones that are slow or otherwise not good fighting forms, because EPI :D 04:12 The EPI for mummies is to give them a curse items attack. That makes flavor sense. 04:12 But players would lynch me. 04:12 just implement crypts :) 04:13 Well, slex has a level 14 "cursed mummy" that has a ranged itemcursing attack. As far as I know I was not lynched by any slex players yet, or perhaps I just didn't notice ;) 04:14 jonadab: in general I want to make shapechange-based shapeshifters retain HP/maxHP between forms 04:14 and remove death=unpoly for them 04:16 LarienTelrunya: slex players have different expectations. 04:17 FIQ: Ah, and have them revert for other reasons, so they aren't always in weak forms? 04:18 This barracks are like a piñata 04:20 uhh 04:20 low boots of clarivoyance 04:23 lol 04:23 small shield of brilliance 04:24 too bad I already have the mitre 04:31 xDDD 04:31 I go downstairs to a master mind flayer that puts me to sleep with a potion 04:31 thank you a lot rng 04:32 YASI: using a staircase paralyzes the player for one turn after arriving on the new level. 04:33 it already does 04:40 YANI: add an "ascended" dialogue to all the quests. That means, when you ascend, you will receive an elaborate, unique message tailored towards the role you are playing, perhaps with the quest leader cheering and congratulating you? 04:41 After all, there already is such a message when beating the quest, but ascending is a much greater feat so it should deserve a longer message IMHO 04:47 Can I #quit? https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/haX1wOGW/ 04:47 My fault for playing 18k turns and not getting any source of magic resistance 04:49 what about the wand of wishing? 04:50 [04gh] Tokage (Wiz Kob Mal Cha), 12 points, T:77, killed by a kobold wererat 05:13 jonadab: yes 05:27 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:30 khoR_: Did I mention that I think MR shouldn't protect against that, because polymorph control is a mechanic, and MR does too many different things? 05:30 Though note that if this isn't 3.6, you'll get the blue DSM back entirely in-tact when you depoly. 05:31 jonadab: #H6283 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Bugs_in_NetHack_3.6.0#See_also 05:39 FIQ: Heh. I suppose that's in everything including Fourk? 05:40 of course 05:40 * jonadab makes a note. 05:44 jonadab: MR does do too many different things but there should be some other way to prevent destructive polymorph traps you haven't seen before 05:45 polycontrol is rare enough not to cut it, when polytraps start appearing on DL8 05:45 -!- nht has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:46 or, polymorph traps should be nerfed, which might be a better solution because then it doesn't require item rebalance 05:47 aosdict: Unchanging. Polymorph control. Also in FIQHack, searching 05:48 FIQ: unchanging is also very rare and hard to identify early enough to matter 05:49 In both Fourk and FIQHack, you can pay the Oracle for enlightenment 05:49 In Fourk as well, enlightenment wands can spawn in the early dungeon levels (they have a spawn rate boost) 05:50 okay but that doesn't solve the problem that most characters will find neither unchanging nor polycontrol by the time the traps become a problem 05:50 I think I like the idea of nerfing the traps themselves better 05:51 I've personally actually considered the reverse 05:51 making them give an untimed polymorph 05:53 jonadab: but I didnt 05:53 :\ 05:54 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 05:54 oh nvm 05:54 yes I did 05:54 FIQ: permanent polymorph? 05:54 what did I do with the clarivoidance boots tho 05:54 that sounds worse than lycanthropy 05:56 I lost 11 AC 05:56 to that stupid polytrap 05:56 fml 05:57 aosdict: You can still "suicide" like usual 05:59 I want armor breaking/polyselfless conduct breaking to not be an involuntary thing 06:04 I want incantifier in fiqhack 06:12 good luck with that, for all its changes to behavior, the total list of things fiqhack has added is: one potion. 06:20 Not true. 06:21 Merging player and monster spells and properties is already a HUGE change. 06:21 And one that I'm sure took a lot of work and effort. 06:21 Even if it's not an item in your inventory. 06:21 And the much needed improvement to monster AI too 06:24 khoR_: I'm not trying to say fiqhack has done nothing important. 06:25 Rather, nearly all of fiqhack's changes consist of internals or behavioral changes, which is a very different route from what variants usually go, which generally includes "add more stuff". 06:26 There aren't new roles, races, objects (except !oWonder), monsters, levels, terrain, etc 06:29 -!- ri-corpse-san has joined #hardfought 06:31 It has some added stuff from other variants tho. 06:32 aosdict: I have actually added some spells too 06:32 But yeah, the list isn't much longer 06:32 and it is a very old change 06:32 (4 spells and 1 potion and 1 removed spell. The time between the spell adds and the potion is 2 years) 06:32 Oh, forgot about the spells 06:32 Maybe I'll add something new next year :) 06:33 that was from player-monster spell merge right? 06:33 Partially yes (summon nasties) 06:33 But I also added charging, phase and astral vision 06:33 I wanted each school to have a level 7 spell 06:33 The level 7 healing spell has one obvious candidate -- resurrect. The issue of course being that turn undead already accomplishes that 06:33 What does the spell of charging do? 06:34 Uncursed-charges stuff 06:34 Hmm 06:34 Still seems a bit very much reusable 06:34 level 7 attack: finger of death 06:34 fiq: maybe make turn undead never work for pets? or makes them hostile at least 06:34 ri-corpse-san: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2017-10-19 02:04 EDT: oh my god, you know Lynn??? can you make her appear here? it would be awesome if she got back into slex! 06:34 ri-corpse-san: Message from LarienTelrunya at 2017-10-19 02:04 EDT: and she should bring Emily with her too ♥ 06:34 level 7 healing: --- 06:35 level 7 divination: astral eyesight 06:35 level 7 escape: phase 06:35 level 7 clerical: summon nasties 06:35 level 7 healing: resurrect yourself :P 06:35 level 7 enchantment: charging 06:35 level 7 matter: polymorph 06:36 !tell larien: I've only ever seen her on another site online, she mentioned nethack a couple times (there were around 4 people who played). I haven't seen her in forever. I don't know her personally, all I know is that she's in the EU and plays nethack 06:36 Will do, ri-corpse-san! 06:36 ri-corpse-san: or just make it not able to revive period 06:36 FIQ: yeah most of those make sense, though you may want to clarify their exact effects on the wiki 06:36 fiq: make yeah 06:36 aosdict: they are clarified 06:36 turn undead now just kills/scares hostile undead? 06:36 *kills/scares/pacifies 06:36 spellbook of charging 06:36 spellbook of phase (temporary phasing) 06:36 spellbook of astral eyesight (temporary xray) 06:37 spellbook of summon nasty (equivalent to vanilla monster spell) 06:37 from the wiki 06:37 FIQ: What if polytraps started a short timer; you get a message, and when the timer runs out, you polymorph? 06:37 well, I was looking for the charging effect, and it's not there 06:37 wha'ts summon nasty vs create monster? 06:37 "You feel a change coming on..." 06:37 jonadab: the main reason I want to make them untimed is for pets 06:37 it doesn't say equivalent to uncursed charging 06:38 aosdict: ah 06:38 I figured it was obvious enough what it did 06:38 Maybe not 06:38 also, "temporary" could specify its duration 06:38 there 06:38 FIQ: Ah, right, monster/player symetry. 06:39 jonadab: I additionally want to make polytraps have a finite number of uses, so you can't repeatedly polymorph your pet with one forever. 06:39 aosdict: Fourk does this. 06:39 Ooh, here is something that might work as a polytrap nerf: 06:40 The probability it gets used up each time is inversely proportional to dungeon level. 06:40 aosdict: there 06:40 polytraps symmetrically polymorph any monster into a random monster of difficulty 1 to (current difficulty+5). 06:41 this means that you are rather unlikely to get a polyform that will break your armor early on 06:41 ri-corpse-san: Summon nasties will create monsters from the nasty list at the specified target. Depending on who you target, they'll be hostile or tame 06:41 If you target yourself, they'll be hostile? 06:41 If you target a tame monster or yourself, they will be hostile. If you target a hostile monster, they'll be tame. Targeting a peaceful will anger it (and summon tame monsters) 06:41 it also solves the problem of "keep my pet alive until I find a polytrap and then turn it into a titan or balrog" 06:42 aosdict: By making pets worthless and impossible to upgrade? I don't like it 06:42 aosdict: Or throw tripe at all the domestics and turn them into All The Things. 06:43 FIQ: pet upgrading through polytrap is a mechanic I don't like 06:43 it is too powerful 06:43 Possibly if you made it possible to get pets in a more realible, less RNG-dependant way 06:43 for example, I think Pathos allows you to pay the minetown watch to "tame" them 06:43 basically hiring a mercenary 06:43 And they eventually grow stronger than large cats/etc 06:44 well there aren't too many ways to make it more reliable that don't involve taming magic 06:44 aosdict: right, I meant more source of pets 06:44 oh, right, more non-magical sources like throwing food at them 06:44 Right 06:45 could also add a pet store if you wanted 06:45 That idea to give a monster a chance to become tame if it's peaceful and at low HP and you heal it could be a thing... 06:45 with leashes, saddles and figurines 06:45 hostile -> peaceful -> tame? 06:45 probably wouldn't be a common enough store to make an impact 06:46 Oh, jonadab, this was something I was thinking about for non-petmonger Healer differentiation. 06:46 doesn't work well unless you extend grudges 06:47 something I have considered doing but haven't bothered with yet 06:47 Healers have skilled medical knowledge and can inflict a unique status effect on monsters when they hit them with a scalpel or knife that causes the monster to "bleed out". 06:47 probably as part of the "monster race patch" proposal I had.. a year ago-ish? 06:47 ah 06:47 aosdict: or just make scalpels able to make monsters bleed in general? 06:48 Combat consists of hitting a monster to make it start losing HP, then disengage and hope it dies. 06:48 and make the duration extended for healer use of it 06:48 FIQ: I think it's more a feature of the medical training than the instrument itself, but it could go that way 06:48 FIQ: do you have some tips on what to do with the wand of wishing? 06:48 khoR_: I am not a good person to ask about wishes 06:49 YANI: levitation and flying should allow you to go up through trapdoors in the ceiling 06:49 But when in doubt, go with marker 06:49 bug_sniper: levitation should force you 06:50 Another thing Healers could have (not necessarily combat related) is herblore, which allows them to brew various potions out of potions of water using herbs. But this would require actually implementing herbs. 06:50 YANI: ladders to do that if you don't have flying 06:50 ADOM has herbs 06:50 I'm not sure if I like it or not 06:50 Just promotes crazy farming 06:51 bug_sniper: so trap doors is basically "unknown" ladders? 06:51 how does it promote farming 06:51 and when discovered, you can walk up/down them as usual? 06:52 aosdict: By waiting around for them to grow 06:52 They have several useful effects 06:52 yeah if there's a ladder 06:52 some are food, some heal, some cure poison, sickness, some exercises some attributes 06:52 bug_sniper: adding persistent two-way level movement is something a lot of people want, but it seems like it'd require some pretty big overhauls 06:53 FIQ: well, solution is then that you can't plant herbs 06:53 you can only find them 06:53 Thanks for nothing Beholder! 06:53 aosdict, yeah or else amy wouldn't make those wierd staircase traps 06:53 maybe in the healer quest you can find a bunch of them 06:54 khoR_: Beholder in general doesn't seem to like the idea of announcing FIQHack livelog events 06:54 well rip spellcasting without my robe 06:54 can I have mr somewhere other than mail and cape? 06:54 yes 06:54 artifacts 06:54 how many artis does fiqhack have? 06:54 !who 06:54 ri-corpse-san: Khor [10fh] Raisse [07nd] 06:55 FIQHack has no new artifacts 06:55 I assume not as ridiculously many as dnethack 06:55 hu 06:55 Allthough it does change some 06:55 ah 06:55 you can still wish for QAs though right? 06:55 For example, Magicbane is now a staff 06:55 I dont think I can wish for artifacts anymore. 06:55 Yes 06:55 yea 06:55 khoR_: Why not? 06:55 I have mitre and firebrand and excalibur 06:55 From the wiki: 06:56 Changed artigifting/artiwishing 06:56 Only gifted artifacts affects the rate of future artifact gifts 06:56 Only wished-for artifacts affect the rate of future artifact wishes 06:56 Artiwishing rate was nerfed to compensate (Old: 100%, 100%, 66%, 50%, 40%, ..., New: 100%, 50%, 33%, 25%, 20%, ...) 06:56 hm 06:56 so I can wish safely for 1 artifact? 06:56 Yes 06:56 Always 06:56 YASI for bards: add grand pianos as a \ dungeon feature 06:56 only lawful I guess? 06:56 No, you can wish for any alignment... 06:57 I dont remember how to nethack 06:57 However, wishing for crossaligned *quest* artifacts are not recommended 06:57 specially details like that 06:57 of the various artifact odds formulas I like fiqhack's the best 07:00 aosdict: what would that do tho 07:00 jonadab: anyway, would like to hear your thoughts on such a modification to healers 07:01 khor: you'll only be able to pick up co-aligned QAs 07:01 (the goal is, of course, to move them as far away from petmongering as we can) 07:01 ri-corpse-san: the piano? maybe you can use it to produce more powerful music, or music that affects the whole level? Dunno. YASIs don't have to be well thought out 07:02 you can wish for cross-aligned artifacts, but you won't be able to pick them up without changing your alignment to match theirs (OA helm works) 07:02 ri-corpse-san: angers all peaceful monsters in range depending on your dexterity + charisma / 2 07:02 er 07:02 aosdict: ^& 07:02 *^^ 07:02 a... demon setting a trap? 07:02 >_> 07:03 or a humanoid making a typo 07:03 YASI: nethack "caption contests" where someone puts up a random jumble of characters and you have to come up with a story for it 07:03 haha 07:04 YASI: cursed wands of teleportation will teleport any dungeon features they come in contact with during their 5-7 tile beam 07:05 .. including solid rock, doors, walls, etc. 07:05 * aosdict accidentally teleports the High Altar of Tyr 07:05 high altars are semi-immune 07:05 Tyr is enraged... 07:05 they will always be switched with another high altar 07:05 thus pissing off both priests 07:05 that is abuseable :P 07:05 ri-corpse-san: seems like a way to cheat Astra 07:05 l 07:05 it's coded to always give cross-aligned 07:06 even if it demands a 3 way shuffle 07:07 idea: it also works on demon lords, however it will replace them with demogorgon always 07:08 if he's already been summoned, it will ressurect him/tele him to your location 07:08 FUCKING HELL 07:08 Game crashed again 07:08 :/ 07:08 can you recover? 07:08 Yeah 07:09 but I kind of have to go to the valley if I wanna win the game 07:09 :/ 07:09 it crashes if you enter? 07:09 it did 07:09 I don't know if its consistant 07:10 ok, I have to chose between red, black or yellow dsm 07:10 do you have fire resis? 07:10 or disint? 07:11 ah, mitre grants fire res 07:11 disint is pretty useless 07:11 I guess I could go with yellow 07:11 acid may be useful against juiblex? 07:12 isnt jubilex digging and one shot kill 07:12 not sure if he was buffed 07:12 he was in many variants 07:12 fiq? 07:13 oh wait 07:14 EPI: you have to identify the correct high altar by going to all the altars and comparing how lawful, neutral, and chaotic they are to eachother 07:14 gray still gives mr right? 07:14 I guess I will go with that 07:14 actually, even better 07:15 what? 07:16 EPI: the astral level requires you to let 3 levers to the correct combination before you can ascend, though trial and error. One lever in each high altar chamber. 07:16 *set 07:18 OH MY FUCKING GOD 07:18 Stop crashing stupid game 07:18 let me play you 07:18 FIQ: Casting detect treasure https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/VRpfgZg0/ 07:19 !tell K2 FIQHack updated 07:19 Will do, FIQ! 07:19 khoR_: I think the version on server isn't up to dat 07:19 e 07:19 I fixed several bugs with detection a while back 07:21 I think your game is poo and doesn't stop crashing. 07:21 >:( 07:21 (jk) 07:26 khoR_: what is the valley crash=? 07:26 -= 07:27 I don't know 07:27 let me chek if it keeps happening. 07:27 um 07:27 the game tells you 07:27 yeah 07:27 but I didnt make a screenshot and you don't expect me to remember the crash message do you? 07:27 ah 07:27 ooh 07:28 that one 07:28 it's a nethack4 bug actually 07:28 oh 07:28 im a cannon 07:28 nice 07:28 I have finally tracked down the case of it 07:28 can I shoot boulders? 07:28 but I haven't yet fixed it properly 07:28 wait until the corpse rots away 07:28 this should take approximately 1000 turns 07:28 lol 07:29 that message is actually funny 07:29 sorry 07:29 oh fuck my life 07:29 im stuck now 07:29 ah no im fine 07:30 *the cause 07:32 -!- eady has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:33 -!- ri-corpse-san has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:47 -!- eady has joined #hardfought 07:49 I dont know whats going on 07:49 but I cant play 07:49 xD 07:49 oh 07:49 something put me to sleep 07:50 pfft 07:50 barracks woke up 07:50 im gonna be here a while 07:50 zzzzzzz 07:52 Do they have wands to zap at you? 07:54 -!- JoeMaro_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:57 [07nd] Eleven (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 5697 points, T:5173, killed by an elven dagger 07:58 -!- notym has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:00 khoR_: good thing you want to waste time for timer issues ;) 08:00 wat 08:01 jonadab: yes, they are soldiers 08:01 One of them slept me surrounded by 7 monsters but my AC makes me almost unkillable so I didnt lose hp 08:03 DIED: dgoddard (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 12695 points, killed by a giant mummy on hardfought 08:04 FIQ: this shimmering dragon seems broken 08:04 shouldnt he try tobeam me? 08:04 ok now 08:04 finally 08:07 -!- Tokage has joined #hardfought 08:07 YASI: reading a scroll of light while confused should summon yellow lights. 08:08 Tokage: it actually does that already 08:08 Oh. 08:08 with 20% chance 08:08 Doesn't do that in vanilla, to my knowledge. 08:09 wiki page for the scroll of light says it does 08:10 yeah, just wiztested 08:11 You put an uncursed wand of wishing (0:3) into the bag of holding. 08:11 \o/ 08:11 Second game made it to the castle 08:11 not bad 08:11 :3 08:12 khoR_: he will if he can 08:12 he could 08:12 and he wasnt doing it 08:12 but he has displacement so it might seem like he is going for it but not breathing 08:12 Tokage: that being said, one idea for a cantrip, when people were discussing those 08:13 was to create a cancelled hostile yellow light 08:13 it won't explode at you, so it acts as an autonomous light source of radius 1 08:15 [10fh] Khor (Pri Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed greased +2 gray dragon scale mail", on T:19544 08:15 [10fh] Khor (Pri Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed greased magic marker", on T:19551 08:17 [10fh] Khor (Pri Hum Mal Law) wished for "blessed fixed greased +2 hawaiian shirt", on T:19559 08:19 aosdict: Did you know that the code supports monsters with a larger light source radius than 1, but the reason no monsters currently have a larger radius than 1 is because it caused performance problems when it was tried in the eighties? 08:19 In Fourk, I gave at least one monster (might've even been yellow lights) a larger radius. 08:19 If it is causing perf problems now, I hadn't noticed. 08:21 jonadab: I think yellow lights are fine with radius 1, though perhaps some other monster should be given a larger radius. 08:22 Maybe white lights? Even brighter? 08:23 [04gh] Tokage (Wiz Kob Mal Cha), 3134 points, T:3034, killed by a dwarvish lord 08:23 I saw an invisible zombie in this run. 08:23 Fuck that. 08:24 aosdict: There's a thought. 08:24 except yellow lights don't have a radius of 1 08:24 even in vanilla 08:24 FIQ: anything different in the endgame in FIQH? 08:25 yes 08:25 expect more CM spam 08:25 pff 08:25 more cm spam and less conflict? 08:25 are you crazy? 08:25 and rays buzzing all over the place 08:25 FIQ: Look up emits_light 08:25 on air 08:26 It returns 1 or 0 only in vanilla. 08:26 I made it return 4 for yellow lights. 08:26 oh? ok 08:27 khoR_: oh and expect being slow 08:27 on astral 08:27 which is speed 6 if not polymorphed 08:27 Might aswell quit now 08:27 sounds even more annoying than vanilla 08:27 and blocks (very) fast 08:27 which is exactly the oposite of what the game need 08:27 s 08:28 slow? more like actually difficult 08:28 s/slow/annoying/ 08:28 in vanilla you can cheese everything with telewands 08:29 EPI: the Amulet of Yendor locks your speed to 1 when carried. 08:29 the amulet f yendor gives aggravate monster which blocks invis in fiqhack 08:29 *of 08:29 THAT actually makes sense. 08:32 EPI: the riders have an aura (AT_AREA) within a range of 3 that gives a smaller version of their effect, for death you can't recover over 2/3 hp, for famine you can't stay satiated, and for pestilence you can't completely remove illness, only cure it up to a 50 timer 08:34 khoR_: CM spam used to be even worse btw 08:34 people comaplained somewhat 08:34 so I nerfed it on 2 occasions 08:34 Did they now? 08:35 Imagine that. 08:35 first by maing the wand have less charges 08:35 *making 08:35 then making monsters spawn with it much more rarely 08:41 -!- tkirby has joined #hardfought 08:42 -!- JoeMaro has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:47 does AT_AREA already exist? 08:49 in FIQHack yes 08:50 floating eyes and zombies use it 08:50 zombmies for revival + natural zombification dissipation prevention 08:50 floating eyes to slow you down 08:51 EPI: wererats have an AT_AREA AD_WERE 08:52 Also werekrakens. 08:55 -!- tkirby has quit [Quit: *poof*] 08:55 -!- tkirby has joined #hardfought 08:57 hi Tokage 08:57 sorry, tkirby 08:57 Hello, FIQ. 09:07 don't worry about it, FIQ 09:07 ? 09:07 also hi 09:08 jonadab: ouch 09:08 -!- tkirby has quit [Quit: *poof*] 09:10 bye! 09:14 -!- Porkman has joined #hardfought 09:15 what, is winning slex a challenge?># 09:15 I'll go win slex 09:18 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:21 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 09:22 glhf 09:36 -!- Spookunora is now known as Spookunor-away 09:39 Porkman: hmm, you asked if winning slex is a challenge? well, there is only one person who ever won it, and that person is the developer; she's still waiting for someone else to ascend it 09:39 will you be the first? 09:42 Porkman: Just _playing_ slex for any significant amount of time is a challenge, to your sanity. 09:43 why 09:43 what's so hard about it 09:43 the best way to find out is to actually try it :D 09:43 but I guess jonadab has a theory as to why it's hard 09:44 [04gh] Tokage (Wiz Kob Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:7920 09:45 Is there a way to get to those other rooms? 09:45 Apart from phasing through as a Xorn, maybe. 09:49 [04gh] Tokage (Wiz Kob Mal Cha), 14856 points, T:8458, killed by a mumak 09:51 I'll go win slex 09:52 no probs 09:52 haha, good luck :) 10:07 oh, i see 10:07 traps 10:07 are the problem 10:07 they're one out of many things that make your life hard in slex; monsters are another, and items that the monsters can use against you 10:24 -!- tacco| has joined #hardfought 10:40 hohum 10:40 I'll figure it out. I'm sure it's winnable 10:40 yes it is 10:40 it is theoretically winnable 10:40 amy has ascended it 10:44 FIQ, how badass is chaos at the end of the chaos quest? 10:44 can I shred him? will he shred me? 10:45 used to be a pushover 10:45 I haven't met the new version of him 10:45 so I don't know 10:46 wiki says he is extremely nasty 10:47 shall I die and find out? :p 10:47 :p 10:48 [04gh] Tokage (Rog Kob Mal Cha), 1258 points, T:2183, killed by a giant mimic 10:49 Chaos is very, very dangerous. He can destroy armor, drain your abilities, summon powerful & (such as mariliths and yochlols) to fight you, in addition to the elemental explosions the rest of the temple guardians have 10:52 let'z find outz 10:54 pushover 10:55 Pushovahhhh 10:55 well, he did seem to have a million or so HP 10:56 maybe it's just me who is too kickass 10:57 How come I can wear a cloak but not a shirt? 10:58 -!- khoR_ has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:58 Porkman: It's winnable, but perhaps not streakable, except by extreme brute force (play millions of games). 10:59 [04gh] Tokage (Rog Kob Mal Cha), 1177 points, T:1998, killed by a kobold shaman, while fainted 11:00 I'd have preferred Kos to cure my hunger rather than hallucination. 11:08 Tokage: hungry is a minor trouble 11:08 weak a major one 11:08 if you want to cure hunger 11:08 I was weak at that point. 11:08 you want to pray at weak 11:08 ah 11:08 grunt being grunt then I guess 11:08 I can see how hallucination in grunt would be a major trouble, yeah, but I'd still have weakening hunger be worse. 11:09 Hallucination goes away on its own accord, after all. Hunger does not. 11:12 don't expect the gods NOT to work in mysterious ways. 11:13 lol, vlad the impaler seducing you 11:13 [04gh] Tokage (Kni Elf Mal Law), 611 points, T:858, killed by an orcish werejackal 11:23 [10fh] TKirby (tkirby) (Mon Elf Fem Cha) wished for "Master Key of Thievery", on T:25854 11:29 Why do I only find my own bones? Is it because the server doesn't let other games interact, or because I'm the only one here that plays grunt? 11:29 I found some K2 bones when I was actively playing grunt 11:29 [04gh] Tokage (Kni Elf Mal Law) had Excalibur thrown at him by some watery tart, on T:1419 11:30 Hmm. Guess that answers that. 11:34 -!- LarienTelrunya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:38 Right, I've been pretty vocal on my hatred on grunt's zombies. 11:38 But there's no excuse that they can be Turned to death and -still- come back to life. 11:38 That's just fucking too much. You can't defend that. 11:39 sgrunt would probably defend that with "I never promised it would be easy" 11:40 And I've said there's difficult and then there's plain nonsensical. 11:40 hahaha 11:40 poly magic marker (1:1) -> frost horn -> magic marker (1:41) 11:41 it's not nonsensical until you get into slex 11:41 [04gh] Tokage (Kni Elf Mal Law), 2670 points, T:2563, killed by an Uruk-hai, while paralyzed 11:42 I accidentally a floating eye. Haven't had one of these in years. 11:42 oh, grunthack 11:42 No, that one was all me. 11:42 i played it. then I met zombies. then I decided it wasn't worth playing. 11:42 Porkman: vlad seduces now? 11:42 I know his friends can do it 11:42 in Dnethack yeah 11:42 but vlad? 11:42 The zombies are bullshit, but grunt otherwise has a lot to go for it. 11:42 FIQ: female character 11:43 [04gh] Tokage (Kni Elf Mal Law), 0 points, T:1, slipped while mounting a saddled pony called Howitzer 11:43 Nethack seduction is strictly heterosexual 11:43 Porkman: ah 11:43 but do you get the succubus effects if you actually sleep with him? 11:43 dunno 11:43 I'd imagine he would just drain you dead. 11:43 i mean, like hell he was going to take my armor off, but 11:43 It would actually make him remotely challenging. 11:44 Well, not really. But a bit more than usual. 11:44 dnethack has seduction attacks that do various different things than vanilla ones. 11:44 yeah 11:44 oooh 11:44 demon lords have special seduction attacks 11:44 For example, Pale Night has a passive seduction attack that's instadeath. 11:44 but trying to abuse it is rather risky 11:44 because it's much harder to pass the checkls 11:44 *checks 11:45 ...how do you mean? 11:45 and apart from the obvious issue of now being naked next to a demon lord 11:45 the bad outcomes can be really nasty 11:45 pale night seduces you? or you seduce him? 11:45 I believe avatar of lolth is safest 11:45 and can possibly even be farmed if you're careful 11:46 YASI: relatively weak, non-supernatural seduction. 11:46 Seduce shopkeepers for cheaper prices, for instance. 11:46 https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Chris/dNetHack/dNethack_Demon_Lords#Pale_Night 11:47 Tokage: nymphs do that already, sort of. To steal your stuff. 11:47 Yeah, but that's also supernatural. 11:47 I mean, just, put your knight's 18 charisma to actual use. 11:47 oh wow, fun 11:48 Seduce the nymphs instead and steal their potions. 11:54 -7 naked AC... 11:56 Tokage: so player seduction? interesting 12:02 [04gh] Tokage (Kni Elf Mal Law) had Excalibur thrown at him by some watery tart, on T:2519 12:02 Tokage: so player-initiated seduction would presumably work better if you are the opposite gender, the target is the same race as you, and you are not wearing much armor. 12:02 Sounds about right. 12:02 this is YANI quality 12:02 aosdict: I intend to make seduction function mvm and uvm as part of xhity merger 12:02 Or are wearing loincloths or chainmail bikini, which it would obviously also add. 12:03 Barbarians are permanently wearing a loincloth, of course. 12:06 How would initiating a seduction attack work? #chat? 12:06 #flirt? 12:07 I'd say #chat works fine, followed by a new option on whether you're just doing small-talk or want it to go somewhere. 12:08 EPI: seducing an aligned priest in a temple works fine, but causes their god to smite them (and you). 12:09 If they accept, at any rate. 12:10 EPI: if they don't accept, the god will smite you anyway for trying. 12:10 ...chances of Chlamydia, Gonorrhoea, Herpes, 12:11 you know, last game I realised 12:11 I was a lawful knight, standing on an lawful altar with priest in attendance, fucking a succubus, and Lugh did not bat an eyelid 12:11 i mean, the lawful god is okay with you having sex with a demon on top o f his altar? 12:12 -!- nht has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:12 Porkman: yep, saw that and archived it at https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Phol_ende_wodan/YANI/IRC_archive 12:19 haha wow, you take the IRC chat seriously :) 12:19 -!- nht has joined #hardfought 12:19 at some point in the future I will put them to good use 12:21 YANI: a b-class monster that is a shapechanger and can turn into any P, b or j monster 12:28 [04gh] Tokage (Kni Elf Mal Law) retrieved the Mine's End luckstone, on T:5076 12:29 Now if only I hadn't also retrieved a loadstone and Lugh for some reason doesn't consider it of any importance even though I'm stressed. 12:29 [04gh] Tokage (Kni Elf Mal Law) averted death, on T:5087 12:32 aosdict: And it's called a Pb&j ? 12:35 of course. 12:38 If eaten, would it taste like a sandwich? 12:39 are you people serious 12:45 The ring of regeneration turns to dust as you eat it dry. Magic spreads through your body as you drain the ring. 12:47 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 12:47 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 12:53 FIQ: I was being serious... originally 12:53 oh heck. Seals run out of time too? 12:57 Am I the only one who's always instantly drawn to eating tengus, despite the horrible risk involved? 12:59 no, me too 13:00 if I have a tinning kit I tin them instead 13:00 (like now, playing arcs) 13:11 YANI: chameleons only mimic creatures close to them. 13:11 [04gh] Tokage (Kni Elf Mal Law) completed Sokoban, on T:10607 13:11 actually been suggested prior 13:15 I don't have that one. 13:15 Has anyone suggested that uncontrolled Teleportitis should count as at the very least a minor trouble? 13:16 Tokage: if I have a source of teleport control, it's usually worth the possible loss of a ring slot to me to maybe get it intrinsically. 13:16 I usually don't, but I don't let that stop me. 13:24 [07nd] Eleven (Rog Hum Fem Cha), 2479 points, T:4862, killed by a werewolf 13:27 [07nd] Raisse (Arc Dwa Fem Law) had Demonbane bestowed upon her by Quetzalcoatl, on T:3857 13:28 oh come on quetz 13:29 Going for Grayswandir? 13:29 yes 13:30 arc is the only role that can get expert in saber 13:30 there's a whole tribe of hill orcs here, I'll see how many of them come to be sacrificed 13:33 [07nd] Raisse (Arc Dwa Fem Law) had Frost Brand bestowed upon her by Quetzalcoatl, on T:5203 13:33 slightly better 13:35 anachrononauts too :p 13:35 yes but in 3.6.1 13:35 so you're serious, in Dnethack I need to curse my own gear in gehennom 13:37 Porkman: w-why 13:37 thanks for the priest bones elenmirie 13:37 cursed holdybag but with 4 potions of holy water inside 13:37 so it's now a blessed holdybag :-) 13:38 man, would hate to see "You open the cursed bag of holding... 4 potions of holy water have vanished!" 13:38 awwwh, so kind 13:39 the bag didn't burden me in the first place so I thought it wasn't cursed, turns out it just wasn't very full 13:39 but I had only 1 food ration disappear 13:41 Good god, Tariru has 5 streak... achieve from October 11 to October 17. 13:41 That guy is going to own the devnull tribute if he takes part. 13:43 -!- tkirby has joined #hardfought 13:46 hmm 13:46 I think if a giant throws a boulder 13:46 the boulder hits a monster in a pit 13:46 and dies as a result 13:46 you get credited 13:47 You provoked the giant to throw the boulder... 13:50 [07nd] Raisse (Arc Dwa Fem Law) had Werebane bestowed upon her by Quetzalcoatl, on T:7052 13:50 okay, it's not Grayswandir but at least it's a silver saber 13:52 Mandevil: In 3.6 and in variants with Grunt's mvm ranged combat patches (and in FIQHack), not neccessarily 13:52 (And even if you did, that's not exactly fair) 13:53 -!- ri-corpse-san has joined #hardfought 13:55 FIQ: testing this in nhdev, I'm not getting any experience 13:57 hm, but they *are* appearing in my vanquished list 13:57 Is there a variant that adds a soldier role? I feel like one is lacking. 13:57 aosdict: vanquished list doesn't count 13:57 every kill appears there 13:58 Tokage: how could a soldier role be adequately differentiated? If you have some ideas for how it could be not just another fighter role, I might want to make it a full proposal :) 13:58 ooh nice message 13:58 aosdict: realible reproducal: have a monster trapped in a pit with HP 1(1), summon something else and give it a scroll of earth and make it read it 13:58 "Your innate strength has improved" 13:58 it calls the same offending function, it might be that giant throwing isn't actually calling flooreffects (where the offending code is) 13:58 if you're wearing GoP and get extra strength from gain ability 13:59 FIQ: I've been getting a hill giant to chuck boulders at me with an acid blob in a pit 14:00 Better armored than valkyries, more regimented than barbarians, and less holy than knights. Also, unlike any of those roles, more equal opportunity when it comes to gender, race, or alignment: anything goes. 14:00 C- and K-rations too. 14:00 aosdict: ok I will try reproduce myself with above paremeters 14:01 urgh this default config is awful 14:01 * FIQ port his devnull36 config 14:01 What do you want to wear? [mAC or ?*] 14:02 Tokage: I meant more along the lines of how would their combat and general strategy be differentiated. That stuff only really applies to the early game, once they get some decent armor and an artifact weapon they seem like they would play mostly the same as a bar/kni/val. 14:03 [04gh] Tokage (Kni Elf Mal Law) had long sword bestowed upon him by Lugh, on T:14972 14:03 Hmm. 14:04 Well to be fair, in late game all classes tend to mold together pretty well - even wizards start to smash around and take on armies. 14:04 what kind of sword? 14:04 *did you get 14:04 Tokage: if you haven't read the Class Overhaul proposal, I recommend giving it a read: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Jonadab/ClassOverhaul 14:04 fiq: do fiqhack gifts work like grunthack, with magical weapons? 14:04 [07nd] munterplant (Val Hum Fem Law) wished for "blessed greased fireproof +2 cloak of magic resistance", on T:11669 14:04 no 14:04 !whereis munterplant 14:04 ri-corpse-san: munterplant [07nd]: No details available 14:04 it works like vanilla 14:04 Looks like a regular sword. 14:05 which addresses the fact that a lot of roles mold together 14:05 It doesn't do anything if I wield it, nor have any fancy effects when smashing at something. 14:06 Tokage: I think your god will never give you a plain old sword, it should have at least one property. 14:06 is it a rare chance maybe? 14:06 did you get lucky and get vorpal, and then unlucky and have it not trigger? 14:06 Possible. 14:06 I don't have any scrolls of identify so I can't confirm. 14:07 Oh, here we go. It's got frost. 14:07 wiki says only fire/forst/thirsty/vorpal could apply to that 14:07 ah cool 14:07 I should try grunthack, fiqhack doesn't give me enough cool things to keep me sated 14:07 -!- nht has quit [Quit: nht] 14:08 not sure how many cool things are added by grunthack that fiqhack doesn't have already 14:08 Grunthack's got plenty of cool stuff, while still keeping things more grounded than SLASH'EM or something. 14:08 Beware of zombies, though. 14:08 maybe try Un? 14:08 I have. 14:08 I can handle lower-impact wishes, but I don't like how it nerfs genocide to complete uselessness. 14:13 !tell jonadab: was reading your class overhaul, what do you think of monks getting drain/acid resistance from leveling up? (similar to dnethack, but likely acid at 19 and drain at 25 or something). would make it hard to get, but possible 14:13 Will do, ri-corpse-san! 14:14 first time doing monk quest, here goes nothing 14:14 how prepped are you? 14:14 Tokage: was talking to ri-corpse-san 14:14 aosdict: I like the idea of getting cool non-artifacts tho 14:15 since unnethack does add a fair amount of stuff and some of it isn't found in other variants 14:15 DIED: dgoddard (Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu), 9903 points, killed by a warg, while frozen by a potion on hardfought 14:15 never tried un 14:15 Give it a shot. Form your own opinion. 14:15 At least it's got Cthulhu. 14:16 will do later 14:16 tokage: lol do you expect me to get taht far? :P 14:16 I've only ever made it to the sanctum twice in any variant, killed the priest myself only once 14:16 I believe in you. 14:16 i think i'll be ok 14:17 well, in unnethack there is no high/elder priest to kill 14:17 so that's a plus :) 14:17 i could use less AC and more enchantment, but i've got a powerful pet, a wand of sleep, and half physical damage 14:17 cthulu is that though 14:17 that's a minus :) 14:17 ri-corpse-san: Don't think they need it really. 14:17 jonadab: Message from ri-corpse-san at 2017-10-19 17:13 EDT: was reading your class overhaul, what do you think of monks getting drain/acid resistance from leveling up? (similar to dnethack, but likely acid at 19 and drain at 25 or something). would make it hard to get, but possible 14:17 tkirby: just make sure to not leave the stair 14:18 jonadab: hm. fits with the theme of trinsics on level up though 14:18 you got it 14:18 -!- JoeMaro has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:19 ri-corpse-san: Yeah, but currently Monks are the one and only role that has an almost reasonable difficulty curve as the game progresses. 14:19 I don't really want to make their late game easier. 14:19 um 14:19 so yeah I was trying to reproduce the bug I found above 14:19 I found a completely different bug 14:19 jonadab: taht is true 14:20 panic: 14:20 deltrap: no preceding trap! 14:20 Generating more information you may report: 14:20 jonadab: by reasonable difficulty curve, do you mean they have the hardest time killing anything while fighting the way they are intended to? 14:20 FIQ: I can't tell you how many times I've been looking for one bug in NetHack and found another isntead. 14:20 aosdict: By "reasonable difficulty curve" I mean that as you get more and more skilled at the game you're able to get further and further into the game and _observe_ that you're improving. 14:21 Ah. 14:21 also panics still kill your save in NH3 14:21 nice 14:21 For most roles in NetHack, the first time you make it past about depth 10, you probably ascend. 14:21 Other roles do this too, but that XL3 poison resist is nice. 14:21 jonadab: I don't think that is true for most players. 14:22 aosdict: And after the first time you ascend, your very next game you probably die on dungeon level five or six. 14:22 Because the early game is BY FAR the hardest part, for most roles. 14:22 (As you get better at the game this becomes less true, up to a point.) 14:22 @d?giant eagle 14:22 stupid bot 14:22 Giant Eagle (07,01A) | Lvl: 25 | Diff: 30 | Spd: 24 | Res: fire cold sleep shock poison | Confers: nothing | MR: 100 | Generates: special | AC: -20 | Attacks: 4d4 claw physical, 4d4 claw physical, 3d8 bite physical, 2d6 gaze blind | Alignment: 20 | Flags: flies, regenerates, seeinvis, nopoly, stalker, infravisible 14:23 I guess I will try to reproduce the bug 14:23 Again 14:23 GL 14:23 The original one that is 14:23 !8ball are you stupid, Beholder? 14:23 aosdict: Without a doubt 14:24 A gnome zombie somehow managed to zombify the minetown priest. 14:24 Just another notch to why grunthack zombies are not okay. 14:25 jonadab: Chris_ANG argued that a difficulty curve which substantially increases the number of late-game deaths from what it is now is not good. 14:25 d 14:25 Not that I fully agree with this, but just saying. 14:30 -!- Jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought 14:30 -!- Jonathanhanes_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:30 goodbye I guess 14:31 -!- Jonathanhanes_ has joined #hardfought 14:34 aosdict: I'm familiar with that position, it goes something like "Players don't lose as much when they lose an early-game character" 14:34 But I disagree. 14:34 -!- Jonathanhanes has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:34 I feel that the hard-part-first difficulty curve makes it difficult to judge your own skill as you get better at the game. 14:35 -!- Jonathanhanes has joined #hardfought 14:36 -!- Jonathanhanes_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:37 Yyyyyup. 14:38 Some zombies are currently tearing Fort Ludios apart. 14:38 Grunthack zombies are not okay. 14:38 lol 14:40 finally 14:40 was a huge pain to reproduce 14:40 but it happened 14:40 the monster had to *not* die from the initial scroll of earth hit 14:40 but from the subsequent pit-fillin 14:40 g 14:42 jonadab: also, it's hard to get people to agree on how to buff things in the late game 14:43 lol, this is the first time I see a mimic in soko mimic anything else than a boulder 14:43 there's a staircase in the middle of the row of holes on soko4 14:44 is it up or down? 14:45 up, interestingly 14:45 ah, yes, the famed soko level 5. 100 boulders and 101 holes. 14:45 aosdict: It's hard to get people to agree about _anything_ balance-wise in roguelike games. 14:45 an orc zapped digging in the doorway on soko2 but I escaped the hole 14:46 Though you'll note that pretty much all NetHack variant developers were agreed that Elbereth was OP in 3.4.3 and needed some kind of nerf; they just disagreed on how to go about that. 14:47 raisse: I've often seen a mimic in Sokoban mimic a door. 14:48 I'm pretty sure I've only seen boulders until now 14:48 oh, and statues when I teleported them away 14:48 (but not before that) 14:48 Not a door? In the prize room? 14:48 in 3.4.3 it was always a statue of an ant because of an obscure bug 14:48 can't recall any 14:49 giant ant because it's monster zero, so if the field doesn't get set... yes. 14:50 Err, permonst zero. 14:50 [07nd] Raisse (Arc Dwa Fem Law) completed Sokoban, on T:12136 14:51 so what all does this bot ddisplay 14:52 beholder? deahts, ascensions, wishes 14:52 for the dev nethack (that one, nd) also does things like literacy and genocides 14:52 also does soko and minetown for some variants 14:52 i see 14:53 and mines end 14:53 (not minetown) 14:53 Basically whatever's in xlogfile and livelog. 14:53 for 3.6.1 anyway 14:55 [07nd] Eleven (Rog Hum Fem Cha) had Orcrist bestowed upon her by Kos, on T:2409 15:05 the bot also does stuff like 15:05 !potion jonadab 15:05 * Beholder pours jonadab a tall glass of single malt scotch, decanted by TheresaMayBot at 324 Kelvin. 15:05 or 15:05 !who 15:05 FIQ: tkirby [10fh] Tokage [04gh] Eleven [07nd] 15:05 !whereis tokage 15:05 FIQ: Tokage [04gh]: (Kni Elf Mal Law) T:19894 The Dungeons of Doom level: 11 15:05 aaaand that's kaen 15:06 Hahahaha good luck. 15:06 !lotg tkirby 15:06 May the Luck of the Grasshopper be with you always, tkirby! 15:06 no i mean 15:06 that's _it for_ kaen 15:06 ah 15:06 lol 15:06 ooh you defeated Kaen? 15:06 congrts! 15:06 how was he 15:07 Luxidream died to him in FIQHack merely a few days ago 15:07 i put him to sleep. he didn't live up to his reputation 15:07 lol 15:07 ahh 15:07 yeah, he does have a weakness to sleep :P 15:07 2 hdf fh Luxidream Mon-Hum-Mal-Law 63,788 16802 20/15 -2/78 2017-10-18 16:14 killed by Master Kaen 15:08 https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/L/Luxidream/fiqhack/dumplog/2017-10-18%2016:14:05,%20BassBassKickKickBassKickKick-Mon-Hum-Mal-Law,%20died.txt 15:09 EPI: Master Kaen now has intrinsic disintegration resistance, and the Eye of the Aethiopica grants sleep resistance when carried. 15:09 lol 15:09 You mean Eyes of the Overworld 15:09 Err, Eyes of the Overworld, I mean. EPI addendum. 15:09 y not both 15:09 jonadab: Kaen in FIQHack will start by hasting himself 15:09 slowing you down 15:09 and then pound you 15:10 ri-corpse-san: The piont is that Kaen has the Eyes, so he'll be sleep resistant. 15:10 basically I gave Kaen spells to buff what he does best 15:10 raw damage output 15:10 lol 15:10 [04gh] Tokage (Kni Elf Mal Law), 73651 points, T:20028, killed by a human captain 15:10 Yikes. 15:10 Captains are beasts. 15:10 did nothing to address his weaknesses, you should be able to deal with him after all 15:10 The Eye is in the possession of the Wizard quest nemesis, who is such a pushover nobody ever bothers to put him to sleep. 15:10 Fucker just wouldn't die. 15:10 RIP 15:11 also gave him phase + skilled monster detection so you can't cheese with boulder forts 15:11 EPI: the Wizard quest nemesis can cast all spells and has all resistances and is speed 36. 15:12 I should make the Dark One have mastered astral eyesight, fireball and cone of cold :P 15:12 so he'll blast you remotely with explosions 15:12 that would be a hell of a warlock duel for sure 15:14 Add some mechanic for wizards to be able to dispel or counter each other's spells even as they're cast. 15:14 So you can fling spells at one another and then try to counter them. 15:14 heh 15:19 "Do you want to engage in wizard duel with this asshole? [y/n]" Pick yes, and you're locked to casting spells with him until one of you dies or runs out of power. 15:19 Both duelists cast their spells simultaneously, then witness the bunch of random effects that inevitably occur. 15:19 Like with successful prayer, all others present just know to keep away from that. 15:19 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:19 you begin the dual by removing reflection sources like a proper gentleman 15:20 duel* 15:21 lol 15:21 and draining to level one and letting a gremlin steal intrinsics 15:21 but fireball/cone of cold ignores reflection 15:21 and you're only allowed to use starting equipment 15:23 ri-corpse-san: You must fight Master Kaen wearing nothing but a towel. 15:24 -!- Porkman has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:24 _turns into xorn, polypiles protection rings until AC -80_ 15:27 You know what ring is crazy OP to do that with? Increase damage. 15:28 don't people sometimes do death farming with that 15:29 capital D Death 15:29 Not sure if you really need any of that for Death farming. 15:31 Death is pretty easy to kill, for a late-game monster. 15:32 I think it was to make it go quicker 15:34 EPI: add a devnull challenge that triggers when you try to attack a kobold and forces you to play a minigame based on Smart Kobold. 15:39 [04gh] Tokage (Wiz Kob Mal Cha) had athame named Magicbane bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:1418 15:50 ri-corpse-san: Quicker? he goes down in two hits as it is. 15:50 aosdict: heh. 15:52 Is it just me, or does probing never happen unless that particular hit also kills the enemy? 15:52 Kinda makes the whole thing pointless. 15:58 It does do bonus damage IIRC, so the chance of a kill is higher. 16:02 So what was it, blessed fixed greased +2 dragonhide cloak of magic resistance and reflection? 16:02 Would there be any better wishes, since I'm a wizard and already have a cloak of magic resistance? 16:03 I mean, all this assuming this genie won't bugger off as well... 16:06 aosdict: Haha 16:06 And until you defeat the challenge, kobolds are a major nuisance 16:12 Someone posted a log of things to wish for a couple days back. Care to post it again? 16:15 that was one of K2's dumplogs 16:15 you can find them... somehow through the hardfought site, but I couldn't tell you the exact game 16:17 aha! found it in my irc log 16:17 http://grunthack.org/userdata/k/k2/dumplog/1480913731.gh020.txt 16:17 Just looked through those myself and found it as well, but thanks. 16:19 [04gh] Tokage (Wiz Kob Mal Cha) wished for "blessed fixed +2 dragonhide water walking boots of speed", on T:6148 16:19 AAAAAAAA! 16:20 an ettin zombie just raised andd enslaved a GREY DRAGON 16:20 i should've tinned that corpse 16:21 nerf zonbues pls 16:21 Maybe I should've wished for a unicorn horn after all... 16:23 Tokage: heh, you may hate grunt zombies, but at least they don't turn non-zombies into slaves 16:24 They' 16:24 They're literally game-breaking. 16:24 They can take on minetown and Fort Ludios on their own. 16:25 aosdict: hey 16:25 I think FIQHack zombies are way less annoying than grunthack ones 16:26 at least you don't have to kill the zombie 20 times 16:26 nor do they drain intelligence, confer amnesia and gives guranteed Ill 16:27 guaranteed ill?! what fresh hell is this 16:28 grunthack zombies 16:29 they're evil 16:40 jonadab: did you see my idea earlier for a differentiation of Healer that is an actual combat strategy? 16:41 FIQ: I have no opinion on fiqhack zombiez, having not played fiqhack 16:41 sombies* 16:41 zombies** 16:41 "sombies" 16:41 sombie zickness 16:43 I am finding the word "sombie" irrationally funny 16:44 aosdict: I'm pretty non-excited about trying to change healer into something other than the pet role. 16:45 The only reason to do that would be because "We just have to have Bard!!!", and I don't see the point. 16:45 DIED: bouquet (Arc-Hum-Fem-Neu), 47019 points, killed by a giant beetle, while frozen by a monster's gaze on altorg 16:45 aosdict: A couple of years ago we had zombi 16:45 (That was the year NAO went e-lipogram for the First.) 16:45 jonadab: I don't think pet wrangling is really what the de facto Healer strategy should be. 16:46 But it fits in so many ways. I mean, they can even start with blessed eucalyptus. 16:47 Regardless of whether a more pet-centric role is added, I think they should have some factor making them actually effective in combat. 16:47 *shrug* 16:48 A petmaster role, be it Healers or not, also suffers from the lack of ways to get a replacement pet, as FIQ mentioned earlier. 16:48 That's a separate issue from which role it is. 16:48 Would you object to the "bleeding out" thing even if none of the current pet-favoring mechanics were changed? 16:49 Probably. 16:49 But mostly I'm just really not interested in transforming healer into something other than what they are. 16:55 I read a blessed scroll of create monster and it gave me a bat. 16:55 I think a blessed scroll should give things with beneficial corpses: stuff that grants resistances, or special abilities, or that your god will like. 16:55 -!- Mandarina has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:56 Tokage: very hard for the game to determine what a "beneficial corpse" is 16:56 especially since a lot of it's situational 16:57 I have been toying with the idea that a blessed and cursed effects should be swapped though 17:08 aosdict: easy, make blessed CM let you choose what to create 17:08 but it dupliocates geno 17:09 it also bypasses the nogeno restriction of a lot of monsters 17:09 shouldn't be as good as wizard mode genesis 17:13 oh 17:13 maybe have cursed make monsters with random diff, uncursed is plain, and blessed is a lot of them? 17:13 !who 17:13 ri-corpse-san: tkirby [10fh] Tokage [04gh] 17:13 my savefile has corrputed... 17:13 :( 17:13 how does grunthack AC work? this cloak gives none 17:13 i can restore a backup and lose 0.0001729% progress 17:15 [04gh] rikersan (Val Dwa Fem Law), 112 points, T:322, killed by a water demon 17:15 > invisible spellbook of invisibility 17:15 ri-corpse-san: the only thing you need to know about grunthack AC is base AC, because it's aaaaalll going to get cancelled later on. 17:16 31826 17:16 tkirby: press P 17:16 aosdict: ;-; 17:18 aosdict: an idea I had for 4k's scroll of wishing 17:18 but jonadab didn't like it 17:18 was to make confused reading work similar to wizmode #genesis (with added sanity checks considering it's in a real game and not wizmode) 17:18 I think I saw that. Or something along those lines 17:19 what were his objections again? 17:19 I don't remember 17:19 jonadab: ^ 17:19 tkirby: I have noted down turncount and when it happened and game ID. Just press P 17:19 I will look into it once your game is over 17:21 Hmm. 17:21 Take that Scroll of Create Monster/Genesis idea, which allows you to summon specific monsters. 17:21 ok 17:21 But make it also be able to summon things that -don't- exist - namely, any monster you could hallucinate. 17:21 Each of which have their own stats, special abilities, and things their corpses do if you eat one. 17:22 FIQ: I think my overall reaction to that was just "meh". I don't remember having any strong objection to it, but I also don't really see the point. 17:22 -!- ri-corpse-san has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:23 My main objection to blessed ?oCM allowing you to generate 1 of a specific type of monster is that it is very prone to farming a certain kind of monster you want drops of, or something. 17:23 So like cursed genocide? 17:23 My main issue with blessed CM allowing you to specify monster is the redundancy with cursed geno 17:23 Want some dragon scale mail but you're only XL 5? Don't worry, here are some speed boots so you can outrun it, a blessed scroll to make one dragon (not a more threatening 4-6), and a bow and arrows to take it down! 17:24 Jurt port FIQHack dragons :-) 17:25 Replace dragon scale mail with any monster you want the drops from / to eat the corpse of. 17:25 That being said, it's definitely worth testing. 17:26 aosdict: Usually when you want to revgeno, you are _hoping_ that one scroll's worth will be enough to give you the effect you want. 17:26 jonadab: yes, it is more of a problem for 100% drop chances, not partial intrinsic chances 17:26 so like unicorns 17:27 Got to the Castle but you still lack fire and shock resistance? Just magic up a red and a blue dragon! 17:27 but... 17:27 genocide 17:27 does the exact same thing 17:27 I don't see the problem 17:27 in that regard 17:27 genocide is considerably more expensive and rare 17:28 CM is only common because monsters never use it 17:28 solution: make monsters use it 17:28 whereas you can get loads of CM off monsters by killing them fast enough 17:29 FIQ: If you make monsters read CM first thing, you're going to have CM explosions that fill levels. 17:29 jonadab: Have you played FIQHack? :p 17:29 Because it's _extremely_ common in monster inventory; one reading will very frequently result in something having another scroll. 17:29 FIQ: Some. 17:29 Well, CM can't reach critical mass in it anymore 17:29 Still working on trying to ascend it. 17:29 Used to be able to, with wands 17:30 Ah, you reduced the frequency of monsters being given it? 17:30 Yes 17:30 Ok. 17:30 I knew you had with the wands. 17:30 And the chargecount on the wand itself 17:30 Yeah. 17:30 Just didn't know you'd also done that to the scroll. 17:30 Oh, no 17:30 But that's just once 17:30 And it just creates one monster (usually) 17:30 So that alone can't grow exponentially 17:30 ... Oh, right. 17:31 I was thinking of a pile of cursed scrolls. Which, when you read them all and kill the monsters (in 3.4) will usually net you _about_ as many scrolls of create monster as you started with. 17:31 But yeah, you're right, they're usually not cursed. 17:32 cursed CM creates like 10 17:32 big difference 17:32 Yeah, and I forgot that uncursed doesn't. 17:32 Well, I mean, I knew cursed created _more_ monsters; but I forgot it was 10 vs 1. 17:32 I was thinking maybe double. 17:33 FIQ: regarding your concern about cursed geno, it still works as a "gotcha" effect for someone who is read-IDing or doesn't know what it does 17:34 and if the CM frequency is reduced, then getting a lot of one monster type at once may be less expensive to do with geno than CM 17:35 A 17:35 [10fh] TKirby (tkirby) (Mon Elf Fem Cha), 88944 points, T:32037, petrified by catching the eye of Medusa 17:36 :( 17:36 [04gh] Tokage (Wiz Kob Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:11530 17:36 what happened 17:36 !lastgame tkirby 17:36 FIQ: https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/t/tkirby/fiqhack/dumplog/2017-10-20%2000%3A35%3A55%2C%20TKirby-Mon-Elf-Fem-Cha%2C%20died.txt 17:36 the instant after kicking down the door I tried cancelling her but she was just too fast 17:37 pretty sure cancelling doesn't work anyway 17:37 i was pretty sure it rendered her gaze attack ineffective 17:38 "The plain Medusa gazes at you, but nothing happens." 17:38 just checked 17:38 you're right 17:38 cancellation works 17:39 well 17:39 willpower 50 17:39 so she might have resisted 17:39 i'll never know; i got no message about it 17:40 I thought the Eye of Medusa was some item 17:40 well, lesson learned 17:40 tkirby: she wasn't in a position where she'd have hit 17:41 er 17:41 where you would have hit 17:41 was it teh statue or the range 17:41 the* 17:42 well I'm watching the dumplog 17:42 oh wait derp 17:42 I misread 17:42 looks fine direction+range-wise 17:42 still though 17:42 moving back would have been a better iea 17:43 i'll keep that in mind 17:43 just blind yourself 17:43 if you still lack reflection 17:43 and use a mirror 17:44 tkirby: how was fiqhack anyway 17:44 i enjoy most of the changes you implemented, especially the searching overhaul 17:45 ok 17:45 cool to hear 17:45 how was the arch-lich pet with new monster spellcasting :P 17:47 he was an absolute boon 17:48 what spells did he have 17:56 So here's a thought... 17:56 Since the zombies are so bloody awful and will murder everyone... maybe not invite them right in the middle of the throne room, just waiting to attack the court as soon as some random adventurer opens the door? 17:57 grunt puts zombies in throne rooms? 17:57 He put zombies wherever they would normally show up, it seems. 17:57 He really didn't think this one through. 17:57 huh, I either never observed that or forgot about it. 17:58 but zombies wouldn't normally show up in throne rooms? 17:58 I don't know. Now it makes even less sense that they would. 17:59 Tokage: if you think zombies are bad 18:00 you'll have a field day with these 18:00 @g?beholder 18:00 beholder (07,01e) | Lvl: 6 | Diff: 11 | Spd: 3 | Res: cold | Confers: nothing | MR: 0 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: 4 | Attacks: 0d0 gaze slow, 2d25 gaze sleep, 0d0 gaze disintegrate, 0d0 gaze petrification, 2d4 gaze cancellation, 2d4 bite physical | Alignment: -10 | Flags: genocidable, flies, breathless, mindless, nopoly, infravisible 18:01 You keep thinking I have a problem with how "difficult" the zombies are, despite me saying over and over again that it's not about that. 18:01 Beholders being tough makes complete sense. 18:01 Zombies, not. 18:01 -!- tkirby has quit [Quit: *poof*] 18:02 idk, zombies seem to behave just like your average zombicalypse story 18:03 FIQ: perhaps the monster difficulty to actual difficulty ratio is off for zombies in particular 18:03 @g?zombie 18:03 zombie (07,01Z) | Lvl: 4 | Diff: 5 | Spd: 6 | Res: cold sleep poison drain | Confers: nothing | MR: 0 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: 8 | Attacks: 1d8 claw physical, 2d1 bite drain int | Alignment: -3 | Flags: genocidable, breathless, mindless, undead, stalker 18:03 they *are* awfully nasty for difficulty 5 18:04 aosdict: monster difficulty is off for a lot of things in NetHack. 18:04 See: wererats 18:04 yes but especially so 18:04 Zombies can fucking take on anything else in the game. 18:04 They can single-handedly clear entire levels. 18:04 I've witnessed them completely murder the minetown priest, without his god lifting a finger. 18:04 All they need is a single bite, and they won't stay down. 18:04 jonadab: actually, a lot of fixing the difficulty curve in the early game would probably just be adjusting difficulty numbers. 18:05 (Not true in the late game. In the late game the main problem is that few monsters are really that bad regardless of difficulty) 18:08 [07nd] Eleven (Rog Hum Fem Cha) had Trollsbane bestowed upon her by Kos, on T:4633 18:08 Right, late game has fundamentally different balance issues from early. 18:09 In other, more pleasant news, I just hit that magical sweet spot for a wizard. 18:09 The bit where I can write unknown things with my magic marker. 18:09 It's pretty late now, but I reckon I'll be ready to take on beholders and the other nasty shit tomorrow. 18:09 aosdict: with how racial difficulty modifiers works in grunt 18:10 kobold zombies has difficulty 2 18:10 kobold/gnome zombies can be really early 18:10 yeah 18:10 kobold wererats have difficulty 1! 18:10 That's insane. 18:10 which is why a lot of early grunthack deaths are from werecritters 18:11 Lycanthropes are made nastier by how they won't die if you kill them half the time. 18:11 that helps too 18:11 But mostly they just feel out of place with how ridiculously common they now are. 18:11 It's the zombies that really bother me. 18:12 I'm thinking I can handle beholders, by comparison, simply because I've long since learned to accept that they should be powerful and high-level monsters. 18:12 Might genocide them if I find a scroll, though. 18:13 the problem with beholders is 18:14 they're mindless 18:14 you get no warning 18:14 and they can instapetrify 18:14 and disintegrate 18:14 and shit 18:14 well, you *do* get warning. Specifically the game type of warning. 18:14 so you're much better off genociding them 18:14 Sounds like a good idea. 18:14 if you *have* warning yeah 18:14 lol 18:14 Anything else I should get rid of before I even meet them? 18:15 beholders is the one thing you want to get rid of ASAP 18:15 nothing else really stands out 18:15 All right. 18:15 Maybe I'll just write a scroll of genocide now that I can. 18:15 I mean, you'd ideally geno liches at some point but they're not any worse than vanilla 18:15 (just different) 18:17 I always prioritized eels, because I was paranoid like that. 18:17 interesting (allbeit old) writeup on nethack variants: https://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/1rxwuq/reddit_roguelike_challenge_6_nethack_unnethack/cdt95qo/?st=j8z768ax&sh=51c4c8c6 18:17 And always forgot greased cloaks. 18:17 oh I forgot 18:17 Liches I can handle. If I couldn't, I couldn't take on the Wizard of Yendor, could I? 18:17 you want to get rid of gelcubes too 18:17 they paralyze 18:17 and choke you 18:18 Yeah, I met one. 18:18 It didn't seem that bad - apart from there being a zombie nearby, which could've easily turned ugly. 18:18 they're not as unfair as beholders IMO 18:18 I can handle them. 18:18 but worth genociding I thin 18:18 k 18:18 @g?gelatinous cube 18:18 gelatinous cube (10,01b) | Lvl: 6 | Diff: 8 | Spd: 6 | Res: fire cold sleep shock poison acid petrification | Confers: fire cold sleep shock | MR: 0 | Generates: gehennom dungeons | AC: 8 | Attacks: 2d4 touch paralyze, 1d4 engulf wrap, 1d4 passive paralyze | Alignment: 0 | Flags: genocidable, omnivore, mindless, vegan 18:18 Maybe if I can find a spare, after beholders and disenchanters. 18:19 gelcubes are much more dangerous than disenchanters 18:19 expect to see endless cancellation in gehennom 18:19 I know, but losing enchantments hurts more in my heart. 18:19 your shit will not stay enchanted 18:19 Anything other than beholders what does that? 18:19 so disenchanters don't really matter 18:20 monsters can generate with cancellation 18:20 both the wand and spell 18:20 it will cancel your items 18:20 Yeah, at some point you just resign yourself to all +0 dragonhide gear. 18:20 Well, dragonhide's pretty powerful on baseline level, so that's not too big a deal in my mind. 18:21 Is it as bad as in vanilla, though? As in, a single cancellation blast will wipe away all magic from all my gear, or will they just take away the armor enchantments? 18:22 without MR it cancels everything 18:22 with, it's random 18:22 Well obviously no one goes to gehennom without MR. 18:22 but over time most your stuff will end up +0 18:22 maximize your luck 18:22 I mean, is it going to also un-enchant my bags of holding and everything? 18:22 Also - I can write unknown scrolls and books, so my luck is pretty much maxed. 18:23 for some bizarre reason, your luck affects monster casting abilities 18:23 so you want it as high as you can 18:23 13-14 18:23 I don't think I've ever entered gehennom without my luck maxed out. 18:24 Plenty of sacrifices, plus luckstone from mine's end, and it's basically guaranteed. 18:24 you can dualwield artis in grunt 18:24 samurai with excal+snickersnee is crazy strong 18:24 Something to think about for later. I don't think it'll help a wizard much, though. 18:24 especially if excal is a thirsty silver long sword 18:24 ah yeah no 18:31 FIQ: didn't K2 or someone establish that if you dip a thirsty silver long sword in a fountain, it'll lose its thirstiness and silvering when being transformed into Excalibur? 18:32 -!- Tokage has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:33 FIQ: never mind, tested it. It keeps its silvering but apparently loses any properties. 18:33 (doesn't show up as silver in inventory though) 18:42 -!- tacco| has quit [] 18:44 aosdict: it'll stay silver 18:44 K2: Message from Tangles at 2017-10-19 06:15 EDT: Message from Beholder: Kick meeeeee!! 18:44 K2: Message from Tangles at 2017-10-19 06:18 EDT: ...also might be worth having a quick look at Beholder's log to see why it's not getting the fh livelog. 18:44 K2: Message from FIQ at 2017-10-19 10:19 EDT: FIQHack updated 18:44 and if it had reflection, it'll keep that as well 18:44 will lose anything else from what I experienced 18:44 -!- Jendic has joined #hardfought 18:45 hmm beholder :/ 18:46 heh, wished for a silver long sword of reflection to test and it came out poisoned 18:48 K2: huh, so it does keep its reflection 19:07 -!- Spookunor-away is now known as Spookunora 19:29 YANI: Lord Surtur's attacks gain a fire damage type, because seriously, why do they not do this? 19:35 &help 19:35 &ping - ping! &time - Get time remaining ¬ify - Send message to tournament staff &lastgame/&lastasc - dumplogs from last game for player/server &scores - Link to scoreboard &servers - List of servers where you can play &help - This help. 19:35 &servers 19:35 hardfought : ssh nethack@hardfought.org : US East 19:35 altorg : ssh nethack@e6.alt.org : NAO Sponsored - US West 19:35 hdf-eu : ssh nethack@eu.hardfought.org : EU (London) 19:35 hdf-au : coming maybe :) : AU (Sydney) 19:52 hi oh6 19:52 [07nd] Jendic (Val Hum Fem Law) made her first wish - "blessed greased +3 gray dragon scale mail", on T:17090 19:53 got the +3! 19:58 \o/ 19:59 -!- Beholder has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59 -!- Beholder has joined #hardfought 19:59 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v Beholder] by ChanServ 20:03 [07nd] Jendic (Val Hum Fem Law) genocided class L, on T:17473 20:42 -!- Jendic has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:37 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 21:37 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 22:21 thanks K2, will do 22:28 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 22:32 -!- elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:32 -!- elenmirie_ is now known as elenmirie 22:32 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 22:33 -!- raisse has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 22:35 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 23:09 -!- raisse has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]